Freedom 25 - is this a fair description

Posted by richard_gooderick (richardgooderick@…>)

I found this on the web (www.preloved.co.uk). Can anyone who has
sailed a Freedom 25 tell me if it is fair comment. I have just put in
an offer on a 1983 boat with aluminium mast here in the UK but now
I’m having second thoughts. I’m looking for a fast, well-mannered
cruiser, not a freak!

starts

This boat was designed to beat J24s down wind. Basically a boy racer
on water. The wing mast looks wild and makes her sail at her mooring.
Fantastic for getting a 360 view of the bay without moving. basic
accommodation and not good to weather. A real purist’s machine. I
bought mine for safe singlehanded cruising: wrong! But worth a look
if you are looking for cutting edge lunacy. A radical Freedom

ends

many thanks

Richard Gooderick

Posted by Patricia Coldren (tcoldren@…>)

It’s not how I would describe my experience with an F25. Some of the
remarks bear commenting upon. First, since you have an aluminum mast,
you don’t have to deal with the wing mast. I expect the boat will sail
at its mooring nonetheless. Having sailed double-handed for a couple
of seasons, I’ll attempt to sail single-handed this coming season. No
big deal. It helps to know how a particular boat will behave before
trying it alone. Of course a cat rigged boat won’t point as high as a
sloop, but it doesn’t do too badly, in my opinion. And off the wind,
it’s a great ride. We’ve cruised ours around the islands on the west
coast of Canada and found the accommodation comfortable, except for the
low headroom. We’ve cruised ours around the islands on the west coast
of Canada and found the accommodation comfortable, except for the low
headroom. The F25 is a unique boat. But it’s thoroughly manageable, a
lot of fun, and a great conversation starter on the dock.

All the best,
Tricia Coldren


On Monday, February 23, 2004, at 06:09 AM, richard_gooderick wrote:

I found this on the web (www.preloved.co.uk). Can anyone who has
sailed a Freedom 25 tell me if it is fair comment. I have just put in
an offer on a 1983 boat with aluminium mast here in the UK but now
I’m having second thoughts. I’m looking for a fast, well-mannered
cruiser, not a freak!

starts

This boat was designed to beat J24s down wind. Basically a boy racer
on water. The wing mast looks wild and makes her sail at her mooring.
Fantastic for getting a 360 view of the bay without moving. basic
accommodation and not good to weather. A real purist’s machine. I
bought mine for safe singlehanded cruising: wrong! But worth a look
if you are looking for cutting edge lunacy. A radical Freedom

ends

many thanks

Richard Gooderick

Yahoo! Groups Links

Posted by richard_gooderick (richardgooderick@…>)

Thanks Tricia

That’s very reassuring.

As the shallow draft makes it possible to anchor away from other
boats (I sail in the Solent and English Channel, which get very
crowded) I am not too bothered about it moving around at anchor.

What I was more concerned about was that the boat will be twitchy or
difficult/tiring to manage in heavy weather. I had read a Freedom
brochure that mentioned an F25 having sailed across the Atlantic, in
force 11 winds for several days so I suppose that may have been true.

Many thanks for your quick response. I will now increase my offer for
the boat!

Richard



— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, Patricia Coldren
<tcoldren@a…> wrote:

It’s not how I would describe my experience with an F25. Some of
the
remarks bear commenting upon. First, since you have an aluminum
mast,
you don’t have to deal with the wing mast. I expect the boat will
sail
at its mooring nonetheless. Having sailed double-handed for a
couple
of seasons, I’ll attempt to sail single-handed this coming season.
No
big deal. It helps to know how a particular boat will behave before
trying it alone. Of course a cat rigged boat won’t point as high as
a
sloop, but it doesn’t do too badly, in my opinion. And off the
wind,
it’s a great ride. We’ve cruised ours around the islands on the
west
coast of Canada and found the accommodation comfortable, except for
the
low headroom. We’ve cruised ours around the islands on the west
coast
of Canada and found the accommodation comfortable, except for the
low
headroom. The F25 is a unique boat. But it’s thoroughly
manageable, a
lot of fun, and a great conversation starter on the dock.

All the best,
Tricia Coldren

On Monday, February 23, 2004, at 06:09 AM, richard_gooderick wrote:

I found this on the web (www.preloved.co.uk). Can anyone who has
sailed a Freedom 25 tell me if it is fair comment. I have just
put in
an offer on a 1983 boat with aluminium mast here in the UK but now
I’m having second thoughts. I’m looking for a fast, well-mannered
cruiser, not a freak!

starts

This boat was designed to beat J24s down wind. Basically a boy
racer
on water. The wing mast looks wild and makes her sail at her
mooring.
Fantastic for getting a 360 view of the bay without moving. basic
accommodation and not good to weather. A real purist’s machine. I
bought mine for safe singlehanded cruising: wrong! But worth a
look
if you are looking for cutting edge lunacy. A radical Freedom

ends

many thanks

Richard Gooderick

Yahoo! Groups Links

Posted by dbacklun (davebacklund@…>)

I own a Freedom 21, but have some familiarity with the F25. In the
U.S., I don’t believe any shallow draft F25s were built–all were fin
keel of typical draft. Also, I believe all U.S. F25s were built with
carbon fiber masts, which flex, and can dump some wind in gusts. The
wing mast had back stays, I believe, but the round mast was
unstayed. The reviews I have read for F25s have all been quite
positive. What is the draft of the boat you have made an offer on?
Best wishes.
Dave B.

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “richard_gooderick”
<richardgooderick@h…> wrote:

Thanks Tricia

That’s very reassuring.

As the shallow draft makes it possible to anchor away from other
boats (I sail in the Solent and English Channel, which get very
crowded) I am not too bothered about it moving around at anchor.

What I was more concerned about was that the boat will be twitchy
or
difficult/tiring to manage in heavy weather. I had read a Freedom
brochure that mentioned an F25 having sailed across the Atlantic,
in
force 11 winds for several days so I suppose that may have been
true.

Many thanks for your quick response. I will now increase my offer
for
the boat!

Richard

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, Patricia Coldren
<tcoldren@a…> wrote:

It’s not how I would describe my experience with an F25. Some of
the
remarks bear commenting upon. First, since you have an aluminum
mast,
you don’t have to deal with the wing mast. I expect the boat
will
sail
at its mooring nonetheless. Having sailed double-handed for a
couple
of seasons, I’ll attempt to sail single-handed this coming
season.
No
big deal. It helps to know how a particular boat will behave
before
trying it alone. Of course a cat rigged boat won’t point as high
as
a
sloop, but it doesn’t do too badly, in my opinion. And off the
wind,
it’s a great ride. We’ve cruised ours around the islands on the
west
coast of Canada and found the accommodation comfortable, except
for
the
low headroom. We’ve cruised ours around the islands on the west
coast
of Canada and found the accommodation comfortable, except for the
low
headroom. The F25 is a unique boat. But it’s thoroughly
manageable, a
lot of fun, and a great conversation starter on the dock.

All the best,
Tricia Coldren

On Monday, February 23, 2004, at 06:09 AM, richard_gooderick
wrote:

I found this on the web (www.preloved.co.uk). Can anyone who has
sailed a Freedom 25 tell me if it is fair comment. I have just
put in
an offer on a 1983 boat with aluminium mast here in the UK but
now
I’m having second thoughts. I’m looking for a fast, well-
mannered
cruiser, not a freak!

starts

This boat was designed to beat J24s down wind. Basically a boy
racer
on water. The wing mast looks wild and makes her sail at her
mooring.
Fantastic for getting a 360 view of the bay without moving.
basic
accommodation and not good to weather. A real purist’s machine.
I
bought mine for safe singlehanded cruising: wrong! But worth a
look
if you are looking for cutting edge lunacy. A radical Freedom

ends

many thanks

Richard Gooderick

Yahoo! Groups Links

Posted by richard_gooderick (richardgooderick@…>)

Hi Dave

Thanks for the reply.

This UK-built boat has a lifting keel operated by a hydraulic pump in
the cockpit locker. There has been some discussion with the owner
over the vital statistics but I believe that she draws 4 foot 6
inches with the keel down and 2 feet with the keel up. The keel has a
bulb on the end which remains outside the hull when the keel is
lifted. The boat therefore sits on this bulb when dried out plus the
stub of the rudder (which raises) and has the option for fitting
aluminium legs either side of the boat when drying out on hard sand.

Running backstays are fitted to the aluminium mast. I think that some
modifications were made for the UK market, perhaps this was one of
them. I am told that it helps to tension the mast and thereby
improves the set of the staysail.

very best

Richard





— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “dbacklun”
<davebacklund@m…> wrote:

I own a Freedom 21, but have some familiarity with the F25. In the
U.S., I don’t believe any shallow draft F25s were built–all were
fin
keel of typical draft. Also, I believe all U.S. F25s were built
with
carbon fiber masts, which flex, and can dump some wind in gusts.
The
wing mast had back stays, I believe, but the round mast was
unstayed. The reviews I have read for F25s have all been quite
positive. What is the draft of the boat you have made an offer
on?
Best wishes.
Dave B.

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “richard_gooderick”
<richardgooderick@h…> wrote:

Thanks Tricia

That’s very reassuring.

As the shallow draft makes it possible to anchor away from other
boats (I sail in the Solent and English Channel, which get very
crowded) I am not too bothered about it moving around at anchor.

What I was more concerned about was that the boat will be twitchy
or
difficult/tiring to manage in heavy weather. I had read a Freedom
brochure that mentioned an F25 having sailed across the Atlantic,
in
force 11 winds for several days so I suppose that may have been
true.

Many thanks for your quick response. I will now increase my offer
for
the boat!

Richard

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, Patricia Coldren
<tcoldren@a…> wrote:

It’s not how I would describe my experience with an F25. Some
of
the
remarks bear commenting upon. First, since you have an aluminum
mast,
you don’t have to deal with the wing mast. I expect the boat
will
sail
at its mooring nonetheless. Having sailed double-handed for a
couple
of seasons, I’ll attempt to sail single-handed this coming
season.
No
big deal. It helps to know how a particular boat will behave
before
trying it alone. Of course a cat rigged boat won’t point as
high
as
a
sloop, but it doesn’t do too badly, in my opinion. And off the
wind,
it’s a great ride. We’ve cruised ours around the islands on
the
west
coast of Canada and found the accommodation comfortable, except
for
the
low headroom. We’ve cruised ours around the islands on the
west
coast
of Canada and found the accommodation comfortable, except for
the
low
headroom. The F25 is a unique boat. But it’s thoroughly
manageable, a
lot of fun, and a great conversation starter on the dock.

All the best,
Tricia Coldren

On Monday, February 23, 2004, at 06:09 AM, richard_gooderick
wrote:

I found this on the web (www.preloved.co.uk). Can anyone who
has
sailed a Freedom 25 tell me if it is fair comment. I have
just
put in
an offer on a 1983 boat with aluminium mast here in the UK
but
now
I’m having second thoughts. I’m looking for a fast, well-
mannered
cruiser, not a freak!

starts

This boat was designed to beat J24s down wind. Basically a
boy
racer
on water. The wing mast looks wild and makes her sail at her
mooring.
Fantastic for getting a 360 view of the bay without moving.
basic
accommodation and not good to weather. A real purist’s
machine.
I
bought mine for safe singlehanded cruising: wrong! But worth
a
look
if you are looking for cutting edge lunacy. A radical Freedom

ends

many thanks

Richard Gooderick

Yahoo! Groups Links

Posted by dehoma (dehoma@…>)

Richard,

By “drying out” you mean spending the night in a harbor where the
tide runs all the way out and the boat is held up with stilts (or a
double keel)?

That might explain to some of us why the boat would be
so “complicated” with all these extra moveable parts. Over here we
call the places where the tide runs all the way out the beach; and if
we wake up there on our boat in the morning it is considered “not
cool”!

To me, the UK and US versions sound quite a bit different.

-David


— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “richard_gooderick”
<richardgooderick@h…> wrote:

Hi Dave

Thanks for the reply.

This UK-built boat has a lifting keel operated by a hydraulic pump
in
the cockpit locker. There has been some discussion with the owner
over the vital statistics but I believe that she draws 4 foot 6
inches with the keel down and 2 feet with the keel up. The keel has
a
bulb on the end which remains outside the hull when the keel is
lifted. The boat therefore sits on this bulb when dried out plus
the
stub of the rudder (which raises) and has the option for fitting
aluminium legs either side of the boat when drying out on hard sand.

Running backstays are fitted to the aluminium mast. I think that
some
modifications were made for the UK market, perhaps this was one of
them. I am told that it helps to tension the mast and thereby
improves the set of the staysail.

very best

Richard

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “dbacklun”
<davebacklund@m…> wrote:

I own a Freedom 21, but have some familiarity with the F25. In
the
U.S., I don’t believe any shallow draft F25s were built–all were
fin
keel of typical draft. Also, I believe all U.S. F25s were built
with
carbon fiber masts, which flex, and can dump some wind in gusts.
The
wing mast had back stays, I believe, but the round mast was
unstayed. The reviews I have read for F25s have all been quite
positive. What is the draft of the boat you have made an offer
on?
Best wishes.
Dave B.

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “richard_gooderick”
<richardgooderick@h…> wrote:

Thanks Tricia

That’s very reassuring.

As the shallow draft makes it possible to anchor away from
other
boats (I sail in the Solent and English Channel, which get very
crowded) I am not too bothered about it moving around at
anchor.

What I was more concerned about was that the boat will be
twitchy
or
difficult/tiring to manage in heavy weather. I had read a
Freedom
brochure that mentioned an F25 having sailed across the
Atlantic,
in
force 11 winds for several days so I suppose that may have been
true.

Many thanks for your quick response. I will now increase my
offer
for
the boat!

Richard

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, Patricia Coldren
<tcoldren@a…> wrote:

It’s not how I would describe my experience with an F25.
Some
of
the
remarks bear commenting upon. First, since you have an
aluminum
mast,
you don’t have to deal with the wing mast. I expect the boat
will
sail
at its mooring nonetheless. Having sailed double-handed for
a
couple
of seasons, I’ll attempt to sail single-handed this coming
season.
No
big deal. It helps to know how a particular boat will behave
before
trying it alone. Of course a cat rigged boat won’t point as
high
as
a
sloop, but it doesn’t do too badly, in my opinion. And off
the
wind,
it’s a great ride. We’ve cruised ours around the islands on
the
west
coast of Canada and found the accommodation comfortable,
except
for
the
low headroom. We’ve cruised ours around the islands on the
west
coast
of Canada and found the accommodation comfortable, except for
the
low
headroom. The F25 is a unique boat. But it’s thoroughly
manageable, a
lot of fun, and a great conversation starter on the dock.

All the best,
Tricia Coldren

On Monday, February 23, 2004, at 06:09 AM, richard_gooderick
wrote:

I found this on the web (www.preloved.co.uk). Can anyone
who
has
sailed a Freedom 25 tell me if it is fair comment. I have
just
put in
an offer on a 1983 boat with aluminium mast here in the UK
but
now
I’m having second thoughts. I’m looking for a fast, well-
mannered
cruiser, not a freak!

starts

This boat was designed to beat J24s down wind. Basically a
boy
racer
on water. The wing mast looks wild and makes her sail at
her
mooring.
Fantastic for getting a 360 view of the bay without moving.
basic
accommodation and not good to weather. A real purist’s
machine.
I
bought mine for safe singlehanded cruising: wrong! But
worth
a
look
if you are looking for cutting edge lunacy. A radical
Freedom

ends

many thanks

Richard Gooderick

Yahoo! Groups Links

Posted by richard_gooderick (richardgooderick@…>)

You’ve hit the nail on the head. Drying out is considered uncool on
this side of the Atlantic too if it’s unintentional ie a stranding.
In case of a stranding the trick is to try to make it look
intentional eg by scrubbing the bottom.

I suspect that the sailing area in the Solent and English Channel is
more crowded than is generally the case in the US and also that the
tidal range may be greater. So there is quite an advantage to being
able to dry out or to float in shallow anchorages where the deep
water is crowded with fin keel boats at anchor.

However, a discusion of lifting keels is a digression from my
original enquiry ie how well-mannered and seaworthy is an F25. This
has largely been answered and I now look forward to finding out more
at first hand when the purchase of my F25 goes through!

Still, if anyone has tips for dealing with heavy weather in an F25
I’d love to hear them. Presumably it is a light bouncy boat that
won’t heave to.

Many thanks for your response.

kind regards

Richard


— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “dehoma” <dehoma@c…>
wrote:

Richard,

By “drying out” you mean spending the night in a harbor where the
tide runs all the way out and the boat is held up with stilts (or a
double keel)?

That might explain to some of us why the boat would be
so “complicated” with all these extra moveable parts. Over here we
call the places where the tide runs all the way out the beach; and
if
we wake up there on our boat in the morning it is considered “not
cool”!

To me, the UK and US versions sound quite a bit different.

-David

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “richard_gooderick”
<richardgooderick@h…> wrote:

Hi Dave

Thanks for the reply.

This UK-built boat has a lifting keel operated by a hydraulic
pump
in
the cockpit locker. There has been some discussion with the owner
over the vital statistics but I believe that she draws 4 foot 6
inches with the keel down and 2 feet with the keel up. The keel
has
a
bulb on the end which remains outside the hull when the keel is
lifted. The boat therefore sits on this bulb when dried out plus
the
stub of the rudder (which raises) and has the option for fitting
aluminium legs either side of the boat when drying out on hard
sand.

Running backstays are fitted to the aluminium mast. I think that
some
modifications were made for the UK market, perhaps this was one
of
them. I am told that it helps to tension the mast and thereby
improves the set of the staysail.

very best

Richard

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “dbacklun”
<davebacklund@m…> wrote:

I own a Freedom 21, but have some familiarity with the F25. In
the
U.S., I don’t believe any shallow draft F25s were built–all
were
fin
keel of typical draft. Also, I believe all U.S. F25s were
built
with
carbon fiber masts, which flex, and can dump some wind in
gusts.
The
wing mast had back stays, I believe, but the round mast was
unstayed. The reviews I have read for F25s have all been quite
positive. What is the draft of the boat you have made an offer
on?
Best wishes.
Dave B.

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “richard_gooderick”
<richardgooderick@h…> wrote:

Thanks Tricia

That’s very reassuring.

As the shallow draft makes it possible to anchor away from
other
boats (I sail in the Solent and English Channel, which get
very
crowded) I am not too bothered about it moving around at
anchor.

What I was more concerned about was that the boat will be
twitchy
or
difficult/tiring to manage in heavy weather. I had read a
Freedom
brochure that mentioned an F25 having sailed across the
Atlantic,
in
force 11 winds for several days so I suppose that may have
been
true.

Many thanks for your quick response. I will now increase my
offer
for
the boat!

Richard

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, Patricia Coldren
<tcoldren@a…> wrote:

It’s not how I would describe my experience with an F25.
Some
of
the
remarks bear commenting upon. First, since you have an
aluminum
mast,
you don’t have to deal with the wing mast. I expect the
boat
will
sail
at its mooring nonetheless. Having sailed double-handed
for
a
couple
of seasons, I’ll attempt to sail single-handed this coming
season.
No
big deal. It helps to know how a particular boat will
behave
before
trying it alone. Of course a cat rigged boat won’t point as
high
as
a
sloop, but it doesn’t do too badly, in my opinion. And off
the
wind,
it’s a great ride. We’ve cruised ours around the islands
on
the
west
coast of Canada and found the accommodation comfortable,
except
for
the
low headroom. We’ve cruised ours around the islands on the
west
coast
of Canada and found the accommodation comfortable, except
for
the
low
headroom. The F25 is a unique boat. But it’s thoroughly
manageable, a
lot of fun, and a great conversation starter on the dock.

All the best,
Tricia Coldren

On Monday, February 23, 2004, at 06:09 AM,
richard_gooderick
wrote:

I found this on the web (www.preloved.co.uk). Can anyone
who
has
sailed a Freedom 25 tell me if it is fair comment. I have
just
put in
an offer on a 1983 boat with aluminium mast here in the
UK
but
now
I’m having second thoughts. I’m looking for a fast, well-
mannered
cruiser, not a freak!

starts

This boat was designed to beat J24s down wind. Basically
a
boy
racer
on water. The wing mast looks wild and makes her sail at
her
mooring.
Fantastic for getting a 360 view of the bay without
moving.
basic
accommodation and not good to weather. A real purist’s
machine.
I
bought mine for safe singlehanded cruising: wrong! But
worth
a
look
if you are looking for cutting edge lunacy. A radical
Freedom

ends

many thanks

Richard Gooderick

Yahoo! Groups Links