Posted by Wilf Bishop (wilf.bishop@…>)
My UK sailing club (The Ullswater Yacht Club) has a limit on overall length of boats of 25ft 6". I currently sail a Freedom 21 & would like to change to a Freedom 25. However, the quoted LOA for the F25 is 25ft 8". Please can any Freedom 25 members of our group suggest how I could “modify” an F25 to meet the 25ft 6" maximum LOA requirement? Is it for example possible to “crop” the rudder at the waterline by 2" or change the pulpit geometry?
Indeed is the F25 actually 25ft 8" LOA? Could anyone check this dimension for me? By the way I know it sounds like a crazy limitation but we sail on a lake in an area of outstanding natural beauty in the UK Lake District National Park and our mooring zone is very small - hence we have to pack boats in and some form of size limitation is necessary.
Many thanks,
Wilf Bishop
F21 Daydream/UK sail No 205
Posted by Norm Friberg (nfriberg@…>)
Wilf,
Have you considered lying?
Best regards,
Norm
----- Original Message -----
From: Wilf Bishop
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 4:11 AM
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Freedom 25 Overall Length
My UK sailing club (The Ullswater Yacht Club) has a limit on overall length of boats of 25ft 6". I currently sail a Freedom 21 & would like to change to a Freedom 25. However, the quoted LOA for the F25 is 25ft 8". Please can any Freedom 25 members of our group suggest how I could “modify” an F25 to meet the 25ft 6" maximum LOA requirement? Is it for example possible to “crop” the rudder at the waterline by 2" or change the pulpit geometry?
Indeed is the F25 actually 25ft 8" LOA? Could anyone check this dimension for me? By the way I know it sounds like a crazy limitation but we sail on a lake in an area of outstanding natural beauty in the UK Lake District National Park and our mooring zone is very small - hence we have to pack boats in and some form of size limitation is necessary.
Many thanks,
Wilf Bishop
F21 Daydream/UK sail No 205
Posted by andre laviolette (andrelaviolette@…>)
Wilf, And I though my YC was anal. I will be in Florida next Tuesday where I can measure Scaramanga to the inch. The 25’ 8" does not include the outboard rudder. Mine has an inboard engine, do they measure the outboard if you have one ? Andre.Wilf Bishop <wilf.bishop@…> wrote: My UK sailing club (The Ullswater Yacht Club) has a limit on overall length of boats of 25ft 6". I
currently sail a Freedom 21 & would like to change to a Freedom 25. However, the quoted LOA for the F25 is 25ft 8". Please can any Freedom 25 members of our group suggest how I could “modify” an F25 to meet the 25ft 6" maximum LOA requirement? Is it for example possible to “crop” the rudder at the waterline by 2" or change the pulpit geometry? Indeed is the F25 actually 25ft 8" LOA? Could anyone check this dimension for me? By the way I know it sounds like a crazy limitation but we sail on a lake in an area of outstanding natural beauty in the UK Lake District National Park and our mooring zone is very small - hence we have to pack boats in and some form of size limitation is necessary. Many thanks, Wilf Bishop F21 Daydream/UK
sail No 205
Make free worldwide PC-to-PC calls. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger with Voice
Posted by lance_ryley (lance_ryley@…>)
Wow, Wilf…
…if the rudder isn’t included in the overall length measurement,
then you’re already over the limit without modification. Looking at
the line drawings, it looks like the only way to get back to the 25’
8" is to design some sort of inboard rudder arrangement, which would
probably cost more to execute than the vessel itself. But then you
might get the 2" by making the rudder truly flat, since - at least on
the drawing I’m looking at - it appears to have a slight aft bulge at
the waterline.
Of course, as most of us Freedom owners know, there was some give on
the measurements, especially regarding draft, so… I’d say your best
bet is to fudge the numbers 
you may actually be right
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Wilf Bishop”
<wilf.bishop@…> wrote:
My UK sailing club (The Ullswater Yacht Club) has a limit on
overall length of boats of 25ft 6". I currently sail a Freedom 21 &
would like to change to a Freedom 25. However, the quoted LOA for the
F25 is 25ft 8". Please can any Freedom 25 members of our group
suggest how I could “modify” an F25 to meet the 25ft 6" maximum LOA
requirement? Is it for example possible to “crop” the rudder at the
waterline by 2" or change the pulpit geometry?
Indeed is the F25 actually 25ft 8" LOA? Could anyone check this
dimension for me? By the way I know it sounds like a crazy
limitation but we sail on a lake in an area of outstanding natural
beauty in the UK Lake District National Park and our mooring zone is
very small - hence we have to pack boats in and some form of size
limitation is necessary.
Many thanks,
Wilf Bishop
F21 Daydream/UK sail No 205
Posted by michel.capel (michel.capel@…>)
You bet there was some ‘give’ on the numbers of the measurements of
the Freedoms; My F44 has an LOA of 44.9’ and a length on deck of
42.3’. So they half included the anchor cathead in the type
identification. worse in our shallow waters here is that the draft
of 6’ is actually 6.4’ when the tanks are full.
I think this tendency to state smaller numbers than actual is
typically US practice; apparently yards are afraid to get sued for
selling boats that are an inch shorter than promised. In Europe, the
custom is to round off the length to the nearest 10 cms.
I wonder if yards like Hallberg Rassy that have markets on both
sides of the Atlantic adapt their typenumbers for the US.
Michel Capel
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “lance_ryley”
<lance_ryley@…> wrote:
Wow, Wilf…
…if the rudder isn’t included in the overall length measurement,
then you’re already over the limit without modification. Looking
at
the line drawings, it looks like the only way to get back to the
25’
8" is to design some sort of inboard rudder arrangement, which
would
probably cost more to execute than the vessel itself. But then you
might get the 2" by making the rudder truly flat, since - at least
on
the drawing I’m looking at - it appears to have a slight aft bulge
at
the waterline.
Of course, as most of us Freedom owners know, there was some give
on
the measurements, especially regarding draft, so… I’d say your
best
bet is to fudge the numbers you may actually be right
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Wilf Bishop”
<wilf.bishop@> wrote:
My UK sailing club (The Ullswater Yacht Club) has a limit on
overall length of boats of 25ft 6". I currently sail a Freedom 21
&
would like to change to a Freedom 25. However, the quoted LOA for
the
F25 is 25ft 8". Please can any Freedom 25 members of our group
suggest how I could “modify” an F25 to meet the 25ft 6" maximum
LOA
requirement? Is it for example possible to “crop” the rudder at
the
waterline by 2" or change the pulpit geometry?
Indeed is the F25 actually 25ft 8" LOA? Could anyone check this
dimension for me? By the way I know it sounds like a crazy
limitation but we sail on a lake in an area of outstanding natural
beauty in the UK Lake District National Park and our mooring zone
is
very small - hence we have to pack boats in and some form of size
limitation is necessary.
Many thanks,
Wilf Bishop
F21 Daydream/UK sail No 205
Posted by normfriberg (nfriberg@…>)
Just to add to this discussion, it is clear that the number
designations of the Freedoms was intended only as a gross number. I
was shocked to find that my Freedom 40 measured out to 44ft. 6in.,
which included the boomkin. The mizzen boom actually protrudes
another few inches. Even without the boomkin, it is over 40 ft. on
deck. Strange it wasn’t marketed as a 44, which sounds like more
boat for the money. Anyway, the lesson is not to accept the numbers
in the name, which is why marinas measure your boat when they are
charging by the foot for a slip rental.
Norm
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “michel.capel”
<michel.capel@…> wrote:
You bet there was some ‘give’ on the numbers of the measurements
of
the Freedoms; My F44 has an LOA of 44.9’ and a length on deck of
42.3’. So they half included the anchor cathead in the type
identification. worse in our shallow waters here is that the draft
of 6’ is actually 6.4’ when the tanks are full.
I think this tendency to state smaller numbers than actual is
typically US practice; apparently yards are afraid to get sued for
selling boats that are an inch shorter than promised. In Europe,
the
custom is to round off the length to the nearest 10 cms.
I wonder if yards like Hallberg Rassy that have markets on both
sides of the Atlantic adapt their typenumbers for the US.
Michel Capel
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “lance_ryley”
<lance_ryley@> wrote:
Wow, Wilf…
…if the rudder isn’t included in the overall length
measurement,
then you’re already over the limit without modification. Looking
at
the line drawings, it looks like the only way to get back to the
25’
8" is to design some sort of inboard rudder arrangement, which
would
probably cost more to execute than the vessel itself. But then
you
might get the 2" by making the rudder truly flat, since - at
least
on
the drawing I’m looking at - it appears to have a slight aft
bulge
at
the waterline.
Of course, as most of us Freedom owners know, there was some
give
on
the measurements, especially regarding draft, so… I’d say your
best
bet is to fudge the numbers you may actually be right
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Wilf Bishop”
<wilf.bishop@> wrote:
My UK sailing club (The Ullswater Yacht Club) has a limit on
overall length of boats of 25ft 6". I currently sail a Freedom
21
&
would like to change to a Freedom 25. However, the quoted LOA
for
the
F25 is 25ft 8". Please can any Freedom 25 members of our group
suggest how I could “modify” an F25 to meet the 25ft 6" maximum
LOA
requirement? Is it for example possible to “crop” the rudder at
the
waterline by 2" or change the pulpit geometry?
Indeed is the F25 actually 25ft 8" LOA? Could anyone check
this
dimension for me? By the way I know it sounds like a crazy
limitation but we sail on a lake in an area of outstanding
natural
beauty in the UK Lake District National Park and our mooring
zone
is
very small - hence we have to pack boats in and some form of
size
limitation is necessary.
Many thanks,
Wilf Bishop
F21 Daydream/UK sail No 205
Posted by michel.capel (michel.capel@…>)
Wilf,
I saw a picture in a Dutch sailing magazine of an American boat of
which the owner had sawn off the tip of the stemhead. He glassed
over the hole in the hull and made a hinge between the sawn off tip
and the rest of the hull. He also had a limited length slip. This is
no joke!
Michel Capel
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Wilf Bishop”
<wilf.bishop@…> wrote:
My UK sailing club (The Ullswater Yacht Club) has a limit on
overall length of boats of 25ft 6". I currently sail a Freedom 21 &
would like to change to a Freedom 25. However, the quoted LOA for
the F25 is 25ft 8". Please can any Freedom 25 members of our group
suggest how I could “modify” an F25 to meet the 25ft 6" maximum LOA
requirement? Is it for example possible to “crop” the rudder at the
waterline by 2" or change the pulpit geometry?
Indeed is the F25 actually 25ft 8" LOA? Could anyone check this
dimension for me? By the way I know it sounds like a crazy
limitation but we sail on a lake in an area of outstanding natural
beauty in the UK Lake District National Park and our mooring zone is
very small - hence we have to pack boats in and some form of size
limitation is necessary.
Many thanks,
Wilf Bishop
F21 Daydream/UK sail No 205