Freedom 33 Radar/Wind Machine Mount

Posted by Larry Powers (lapowers57@…>)

I have a Freedom 33 and want to mount a radar antennae and wind machine on
my mizzen mast. I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has
already done this. What kind of mount do you have, how did you attach it,
if it was custom made who made it?

I also considered a seperate pole mounted on the stern but this looks to me
a more complicated option due to the mizzen boom overhanging the stern. Has
anyone done this on a 33.


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Posted by mike_c_f35ck (mike_c_f35ck@…>)

Larry,
I have a European F33 ck, named F35 overhere. I suppose you don’t
have wishbones and wraparound sails. I have, so I designed a
stainless pole that’s mounted on the stern. It leans backwards 7
degr, exactly in line with the transom. The top 2 feet are vertical.
There are flanges to connect the 2 pieces. 2 flanges with 5 rubber
shock-absorbers connect the Airmarine windgen. with the pole. I have
no radar on it yet, but that can be done easily. I had to shorten my
mizzen wishbone 4 inches.

Read the interesting piece below about mounting a radar low or high:
Posted here by Lenny on February 28, 2003 at 21:39:20:

I have a F 36 ketch with a JRC mounted on an Edson mount on the
mizzen mast. When we got the boat this was a big concern, however, it
seems to have been done well and there are no problems with it. One
fellow I know with an F36 sloop in Newport, RI made a custom
mast “gripper” mount that went most of the way around the mast, not
of course over the sail track, and clamped on sufficiently to hold
the radar, much like my Garhauer boom vangs mount to collars.

However, that said, I much prefer a stern mount as I had on my Ranger
33. There are many reasons for this. The only reason not to do it is
if you absolutely want maximum range from your unit, and you must
consider all you give up to get this dubious benefit. First, a stern
post gives you the best close-in radar coverage that you can have-
bear with me here. Radars are blind for 50 feet- so if you mount it
high on the mast you will not see things low in the water for much
more than 50 feet since the beam (usually 12.5 degrees below the
horizontal and 12.5 above) won’t intersect the water’s surface for
quite a distance out. Many salesmen told me to mount it above the
steaming light on the Ranger- about 28’ up. However, by diagramming
it on a photo of my boat I found that a radar mounted 10’ above the
waterline would just clear the cabin and bow and intersect the water
about 20’ in front of the boat. So- there was my 50’ minimum range.
Why is this so important? Well, when sailing up a small channel into
Oyster bay the small private bouys showed upon the screen right to
minimum range-then showed up in my red/green running lights. Entering
a crowded anchorage at night I could easily avoid anchored boats and
find a “hole” to anchor in. Sailing into the sand hole at Lloyd’s
Point you enter a small channel between a headland on the beach and a
breakwater which is low in the water. My radar installation showed it
clearly. You will still see big things at max range since they have
height to make up for the height you lose, and you will still see
weather. Also note that the horizon distance from 10’ up is about 4.5
miles if memory serves me correctly and from 20’ up it is only about
another mile. I got a lot of good info from a book by a fellow named
West on radar. Additionally, as I did, you can put a deck light on
it, a dinghy motor hoist, and lots of other stuff including and most
important in my mind, a tilting mechanism which so many people ignore
(and my Freedom doesn’t have yet). Why is this so important? IF you
heel 12 degrees or more one side sees water, the other sees birds and
airplanes- not much help if another boat is converging with you! Many
ignore this safety hazard since fore and aft is unaffected. Lots of
companies make good stuff now that is not expensive, like Garhauer
Marine, but I made all my stuff, only having a little welding done
that I could not do.

If you want further info please feel free. By the way, I originally
thought I’d want to change out the JRC to a “better” unit but I have
been very satisfied with it.


— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Larry Powers”
<lapowers57@h…> wrote:

I have a Freedom 33 and want to mount a radar antennae and wind
machine on
my mizzen mast. I would be interested in hearing from anyone who
has
already done this. What kind of mount do you have, how did you
attach it,
if it was custom made who made it?

I also considered a seperate pole mounted on the stern but this
looks to me
a more complicated option due to the mizzen boom overhanging the
stern. Has
anyone done this on a 33.


Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from
McAfee®
Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

Posted by Jerome Weinraub (zayde@…>)

I have that arrangement on my mizzen. The mounts were aboard when I bought
the boat. The wind generator is a mixed blessing,as it needs 15 kt winds to
really produce,and on LI Sound we rarely see more than 5 kts,and that
rarely. The mounts can be attached by drilling and tapping the mast. For
definitive info,ask Freedom. They have heard and seen it all. BTW,you will
not be able to use a mizzen staysail.
----- Original Message -----
From: “Larry Powers” <lapowers57@…>
To: <freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:09 AM
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Freedom 33 Radar/Wind Machine Mount

\

I have a Freedom 33 and want to mount a radar antennae and wind machine on
my mizzen mast. I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has
already done this. What kind of mount do you have, how did you attach it,
if it was custom made who made it?

I also considered a seperate pole mounted on the stern but this looks to
me
a more complicated option due to the mizzen boom overhanging the stern.
Has
anyone done this on a 33.


Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee®
Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

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Posted by lance_ryley (lance_ryley@…>)

Larry,
I don’t have a windgen, but my Freedom 40 CK came with a Furuno
mounted on the mizzen. The regular radar mount is attached to two
stainless collars that are pressure-fit around the mast (5" openings
for the sail track. I’m going to use the same principal (only one
collar) to mount my new steaming/deck light on the main mast.

I’m not sure how well this arrangement would work for a windgen,
since it would protrude farther forward than a radar unit, and I’m
not sure how much more weight that would put aloft.

Lance
“Bright Star,” Winthrop, MA.

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Larry Powers”
<lapowers57@h…> wrote:

I have a Freedom 33 and want to mount a radar antennae and wind
machine on
my mizzen mast. I would be interested in hearing from anyone who
has
already done this. What kind of mount do you have, how did you
attach it,
if it was custom made who made it?

I also considered a seperate pole mounted on the stern but this
looks to me
a more complicated option due to the mizzen boom overhanging the
stern. Has
anyone done this on a 33.


Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from
McAfee®
Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

Posted by lance_ryley (lance_ryley@…>)

All:

I’ve posted three pictures of the radar mount on my F40 mizzen in
the files section under “Radar Mount.” I hope someone finds this
useful

Lance
Bright Star

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Larry Powers”
<lapowers57@h…> wrote:

I have a Freedom 33 and want to mount a radar antennae and wind
machine on
my mizzen mast. I would be interested in hearing from anyone who
has
already done this. What kind of mount do you have, how did you
attach it,
if it was custom made who made it?

I also considered a seperate pole mounted on the stern but this
looks to me
a more complicated option due to the mizzen boom overhanging the
stern. Has
anyone done this on a 33.


Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from
McAfee®
Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?
cid=3963

Posted by Jack Upfal (freestile1986@…>)

Lance,
Thanks for posting the photo. Great shots. How is
the cable fed down the mast? Is it fed internally or
on the surface of the mast?

Thanks again. ]
Jack
— lance_ryley <lance_ryley@…> wrote:

All:

I’ve posted three pictures of the radar mount on my
F40 mizzen in
the files section under “Radar Mount.” I hope
someone finds this
useful

Lance
Bright Star

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Larry
Powers”
<lapowers57@h…> wrote:

I have a Freedom 33 and want to mount a radar
antennae and wind
machine on
my mizzen mast. I would be interested in hearing
from anyone who
has
already done this. What kind of mount do you
have, how did you
attach it,
if it was custom made who made it?

I also considered a seperate pole mounted on the
stern but this
looks to me
a more complicated option due to the mizzen boom
overhanging the
stern. Has
anyone done this on a 33.


Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer
virus scan from
McAfee®
Security.
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?
cid=3963



\


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Posted by lance_ryley (lance_ryley@…>)

My understanding from the previous owner is that there is a channel
internal to the mast(?) for running cables, etc. The cable for the
radar comes out near the base of the mast where it is stepped down
below. I’ve been trying to find a schematic or cross-sectional
diagram for these masts, but so far have come up empty.

Lance

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, Jack Upfal
<freestile1986@y…> wrote:

Lance,
Thanks for posting the photo. Great shots. How is
the cable fed down the mast? Is it fed internally or
on the surface of the mast?

Thanks again. ]
Jack
— lance_ryley <lance_ryley@y…> wrote:

All:

I’ve posted three pictures of the radar mount on my
F40 mizzen in
the files section under “Radar Mount.” I hope
someone finds this
useful

Lance
Bright Star

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Larry
Powers”
<lapowers57@h…> wrote:

I have a Freedom 33 and want to mount a radar
antennae and wind
machine on
my mizzen mast. I would be interested in hearing
from anyone who
has
already done this. What kind of mount do you
have, how did you
attach it,
if it was custom made who made it?

I also considered a seperate pole mounted on the
stern but this
looks to me
a more complicated option due to the mizzen boom
overhanging the
stern. Has
anyone done this on a 33.


Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer
virus scan from
McAfee®
Security.
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?
cid=3963


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Posted by Jerome Weinraub (zayde@…>)

No channel on Freedom33 masts Best scenario- put very long nylon cable ties
every 8 inches on the cable to prevent slapCheap,easy ,and it works-----
Original Message -----
From: “lance_ryley” <lance_ryley@…>
To: <freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 8:13 AM
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Freedom 33 Radar/Wind Machine Mount


My understanding from the previous owner is that there is a channel
internal to the mast(?) for running cables, etc. The cable for the
radar comes out near the base of the mast where it is stepped down
below. I’ve been trying to find a schematic or cross-sectional
diagram for these masts, but so far have come up empty.

Lance

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, Jack Upfal
<freestile1986@y…> wrote:

Lance,
Thanks for posting the photo. Great shots. How is
the cable fed down the mast? Is it fed internally or
on the surface of the mast?

Thanks again. ]
Jack
— lance_ryley <lance_ryley@y…> wrote:

All:

I’ve posted three pictures of the radar mount on my
F40 mizzen in
the files section under “Radar Mount.” I hope
someone finds this
useful

Lance
Bright Star

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Larry
Powers”
<lapowers57@h…> wrote:

I have a Freedom 33 and want to mount a radar
antennae and wind
machine on
my mizzen mast. I would be interested in hearing
from anyone who
has
already done this. What kind of mount do you
have, how did you
attach it,
if it was custom made who made it?

I also considered a seperate pole mounted on the
stern but this
looks to me
a more complicated option due to the mizzen boom
overhanging the
stern. Has
anyone done this on a 33.


Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer
virus scan from
McAfee®
Security.
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?
cid=3963


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Posted by ajlorman (ajlorman@…>)

Since we’re discussing running cables down masts, I’ve bought a new
wind instrument to replace the original Signet Marine model on my F-
30. Does anypne have a clue as to how the cables are run down the
mast on an F-30? If they’re cable-tied together, in a conduit or
loose, I’m not going to be able to pull the new cable down using the
old one. Anyone with any experience on this point? (Incidentally,
I spent 8 hours on Saturday in 90 plus degree weather running the
new depth sounder and speedo cables from the bow to the stern of the
boat. Now I understand why the riggers wanted $2K to install three
instruments.)

Al Lorman


— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, Jerome Weinraub
<zayde@o…> wrote:

No channel on Freedom33 masts Best scenario- put very long nylon
cable ties
every 8 inches on the cable to prevent slapCheap,easy ,and it
works-----
Original Message -----
From: “lance_ryley” <lance_ryley@y…>
To: <freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 8:13 AM
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Freedom 33 Radar/Wind Machine
Mount

My understanding from the previous owner is that there is a channel
internal to the mast(?) for running cables, etc. The cable for the
radar comes out near the base of the mast where it is stepped down
below. I’ve been trying to find a schematic or cross-sectional
diagram for these masts, but so far have come up empty.

Lance

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, Jack Upfal
<freestile1986@y…> wrote:

Lance,
Thanks for posting the photo. Great shots. How is
the cable fed down the mast? Is it fed internally or
on the surface of the mast?

Thanks again. ]
Jack
— lance_ryley <lance_ryley@y…> wrote:

All:

I’ve posted three pictures of the radar mount on my
F40 mizzen in
the files section under “Radar Mount.” I hope
someone finds this
useful

Lance
Bright Star

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Larry
Powers”
<lapowers57@h…> wrote:

I have a Freedom 33 and want to mount a radar
antennae and wind
machine on
my mizzen mast. I would be interested in hearing
from anyone who
has
already done this. What kind of mount do you
have, how did you
attach it,
if it was custom made who made it?

I also considered a seperate pole mounted on the
stern but this
looks to me
a more complicated option due to the mizzen boom
overhanging the
stern. Has
anyone done this on a 33.


Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer
virus scan from
McAfee®
Security.
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?
cid=3963


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Posted by lance_ryley (lance_ryley@…>)

After looking at this problem on my own boat, where not only was the
masthead bracket broken, but the internal components for the wind
speed were basically corroded into something resembling a Robert
Ballard find, I’ve decided to treat myself to the micronet windspeed
indicator over the winter. Pricy? a bit. Convenient? you bet.
http://www.tacktick.com/products/view_product.asp?prod=35

If money were no object, I’d get the speed/depth kit as well, but
money is an object, and it is apparently a fast moving, extremely
slippery object!

lance
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “ajlorman” <ajlorman@y…>
wrote:

Since we’re discussing running cables down masts, I’ve bought a new
wind instrument to replace the original Signet Marine model on my F-
30. Does anypne have a clue as to how the cables are run down the
mast on an F-30? If they’re cable-tied together, in a conduit or
loose, I’m not going to be able to pull the new cable down using
the
old one. Anyone with any experience on this point? (Incidentally,
I spent 8 hours on Saturday in 90 plus degree weather running the
new depth sounder and speedo cables from the bow to the stern of
the
boat. Now I understand why the riggers wanted $2K to install three
instruments.)

Al Lorman

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, Jerome Weinraub
<zayde@o…> wrote:

No channel on Freedom33 masts Best scenario- put very long nylon
cable ties
every 8 inches on the cable to prevent slapCheap,easy ,and it
works-----
Original Message -----
From: “lance_ryley” <lance_ryley@y…>
To: <freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 8:13 AM
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Freedom 33 Radar/Wind Machine
Mount

My understanding from the previous owner is that there is a
channel
internal to the mast(?) for running cables, etc. The cable for the
radar comes out near the base of the mast where it is stepped down
below. I’ve been trying to find a schematic or cross-sectional
diagram for these masts, but so far have come up empty.

Lance

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, Jack Upfal
<freestile1986@y…> wrote:

Lance,
Thanks for posting the photo. Great shots. How is
the cable fed down the mast? Is it fed internally or
on the surface of the mast?

Thanks again. ]
Jack
— lance_ryley <lance_ryley@y…> wrote:

All:

I’ve posted three pictures of the radar mount on my
F40 mizzen in
the files section under “Radar Mount.” I hope
someone finds this
useful

Lance
Bright Star

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Larry
Powers”
<lapowers57@h…> wrote:

I have a Freedom 33 and want to mount a radar
antennae and wind
machine on
my mizzen mast. I would be interested in hearing
from anyone who
has
already done this. What kind of mount do you
have, how did you
attach it,
if it was custom made who made it?

I also considered a seperate pole mounted on the
stern but this
looks to me
a more complicated option due to the mizzen boom
overhanging the
stern. Has
anyone done this on a 33.


Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer
virus scan from
McAfee®
Security.
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?
cid=3963


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Posted by dehoma (dehoma@…>)

I too have an f30 and would love to know what is inside the “typical”
mast. From the slapping I hear at anchor, I’ll guess the wires are
just loose.

-David


— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “ajlorman” <ajlorman@y…>
wrote:

Since we’re discussing running cables down masts, I’ve bought a new
wind instrument to replace the original Signet Marine model on my F-
30. Does anypne have a clue as to how the cables are run down the
mast on an F-30? If they’re cable-tied together, in a conduit or
loose, I’m not going to be able to pull the new cable down using
the
old one. Anyone with any experience on this point? (Incidentally,
I spent 8 hours on Saturday in 90 plus degree weather running the
new depth sounder and speedo cables from the bow to the stern of
the
boat. Now I understand why the riggers wanted $2K to install three
instruments.)

Al Lorman

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, Jerome Weinraub
<zayde@o…> wrote:

No channel on Freedom33 masts Best scenario- put very long nylon
cable ties
every 8 inches on the cable to prevent slapCheap,easy ,and it
works-----
Original Message -----
From: “lance_ryley” <lance_ryley@y…>
To: <freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 8:13 AM
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Freedom 33 Radar/Wind Machine
Mount

My understanding from the previous owner is that there is a
channel
internal to the mast(?) for running cables, etc. The cable for the
radar comes out near the base of the mast where it is stepped down
below. I’ve been trying to find a schematic or cross-sectional
diagram for these masts, but so far have come up empty.

Lance

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, Jack Upfal
<freestile1986@y…> wrote:

Lance,
Thanks for posting the photo. Great shots. How is
the cable fed down the mast? Is it fed internally or
on the surface of the mast?

Thanks again. ]
Jack
— lance_ryley <lance_ryley@y…> wrote:

All:

I’ve posted three pictures of the radar mount on my
F40 mizzen in
the files section under “Radar Mount.” I hope
someone finds this
useful

Lance
Bright Star

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Larry
Powers”
<lapowers57@h…> wrote:

I have a Freedom 33 and want to mount a radar
antennae and wind
machine on
my mizzen mast. I would be interested in hearing
from anyone who
has
already done this. What kind of mount do you
have, how did you
attach it,
if it was custom made who made it?

I also considered a seperate pole mounted on the
stern but this
looks to me
a more complicated option due to the mizzen boom
overhanging the
stern. Has
anyone done this on a 33.


Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer
virus scan from
McAfee®
Security.
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?
cid=3963


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Posted by Brian Guptil (sailordude@…>)

I have done 4 Freedom masts and the wires are bound together with electrical tape, and then slipped inside the plastic foam water pipe insulation that you get at the hardware store. It’s the foam insulation that you hear or the halyards. The replacement technique that I have used is cable ties assembled in a three or four legged “star” around the bundle, spaced about every 6 feet. Make sure that the cable ties are tight so they do not slip and also leave them full length. If you trim the ties, they will cause the cable bundle to twist.

This has worked on two boats, on the third, I (my crew) had to replace the cable bundle from the top of the mast, inplace because some ________ glued the masts inplace. Never, I say Never glued the masts inplace unless you plan to Never remove them. Very bad idea. The ties were not tight enough around the bundle and they slipped to the bottom. I now have bad cable slap. One more project someday.

But the cabletie star configuration worked grate on a F32 and F36.

Brian Guptil http://www.brigup.com206-818-3203 sailordude@…1735 112th Ave. N.E.Bellevue, WA. 98004-3706

----- Original Message -----
From: dehoma
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 8:34 PM
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Freedom 33 Radar/Wind Machine Mount
I too have an f30 and would love to know what is inside the “typical” mast. From the slapping I hear at anchor, I’ll guess the wires are just loose.-David— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “ajlorman” <ajlorman@y…> wrote:> Since we’re discussing running cables down masts, I’ve bought a new > wind instrument to replace the original Signet Marine model on my F-> 30. Does anypne have a clue as to how the cables are run down the > mast on an F-30? If they’re cable-tied together, in a conduit or > loose, I’m not going to be able to pull the new cable down using the > old one. Anyone with any experience on this point? (Incidentally, > I spent 8 hours on Saturday in 90 plus degree weather running the > new depth sounder and speedo cables from the bow to the stern of the > boat. Now I understand why the riggers wanted $2K to install three > instruments.)> > Al Lorman> > > — In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, Jerome Weinraub > <zayde@o…> wrote:> > No channel on Freedom33 masts Best scenario- put very long nylon > cable ties> > every 8 inches on the cable to prevent slapCheap,easy ,and it > works----- > > Original Message ----- > > From: “lance_ryley” <lance_ryley@y…>> > To: <freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 8:13 AM> > Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Freedom 33 Radar/Wind Machine > Mount> > > > > > My understanding from the previous owner is that there is a channel> > internal to the mast(?) for running cables, etc. The cable for the> > radar comes out near the base of the mast where it is stepped down> > below. I’ve been trying to find a schematic or cross-sectional> > diagram for these masts, but so far have come up empty.> > > > Lance> > > > — In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, Jack Upfal> > <freestile1986@y…> wrote:> > > Lance,> > > Thanks for posting the photo. Great shots. How is> > > the cable fed down the mast? Is it fed internally or> > > on the surface of the mast?> > >> > > Thanks again. ]> > > Jack> > > — lance_ryley <lance_ryley@y…> wrote:> > >> > > > All:> > > >> > > > I’ve posted three pictures of the radar mount on my> > > > F40 mizzen in> > > > the files section under “Radar Mount.” I hope> > > > someone finds this> > > > useful> > > >> > > > Lance> > > > Bright Star> > > >> > > > — In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Larry> > > > Powers”> > > > <lapowers57@h…> wrote:> > > > > I have a Freedom 33 and want to mount a radar> > > > antennae and wind> > > > machine on> > > > > my mizzen mast. I would be interested in hearing> > > > from anyone who> > > > has> > > > > already done this. What kind of mount do you> > > > have, how did you> > > > attach it,> > > > > if it was custom made who made it?> > > > >> > > > > I also considered a seperate pole mounted on the> > > > stern but this> > > > looks to me> > > > > a more complicated option due to the mizzen boom> > > > overhanging the> > > > stern. Has> > > > > anyone done this on a 33.> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > _________________________________________________________________> > > > > Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer> > > > virus scan from> > > > McAfee®> > > > > Security.> > > > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?> > > > cid=3963> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > > __________________________________> > > Do you Yahoo!?> > > Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!> > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail> > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links