Freedom 38 Keel performance

Archives
1

Posted by Brad Kuether (bkuether@…>)

Thanks everyone for that insight. Now to the meat of the matter!!!

The 4’6" Shoal fin keel will work for me. 6 feet is too much for where I am. I have a 5’4" keel on my C&C, and thats about as deep as I want to go in the Upper Chesapeake.

Any one with this keel have commentary on how well it points? I understand everything is a compromise, and probably will not point as high as my current C&C or the 6 foot keel.

Its amazing what happens when you own a performance boat. You never want to go slow, and pointing becomes a source of pride… Problem is, performance boats and young families don’t really go together…

Again, thanks in advance for any commentary!!!

-Brad, Mary, Jarod, and Monica Kuether"Scholar"84’ C&C 29 MK IIMiddle River, MD

----- Original Message -----
From: Michael G Katz
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 8:50 AM
Subject: Re: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Freedom 38 Drafts and Keels

It is my understanding that the wing keel–which is 4’–originated as an option on the first “true” 38s, i.e. when the factory started started making the 38s rather than simply offering an extension to the 36s. Also, a keels could be retrofitted. I believe I learned this from Mark Edwards a couple of years ago when I bought by '91 Freedom 38.
Michael Katz

----- Original Message -----
From: macks011
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 6:33 AM
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Freedom 38 Drafts and Keels
From the 1987 Factory literature…Shoal draft - 4’-6" Ballast 6500 lbs., Deep draft 6"-0" Ballast 5530 lbs. I believe Wing keels were installed as shoal draft @ 4’-0" on the ‘89 and later models.— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Brad Kuether” <bkuether@a…> wrote:> Hey everyone,> > I have been looking at 38’s and 36’s now for a while, and am finding the keel specs to be all over the board. For 38s, I have seen:> > 4 Described as a Wing Keel> 4’6" Described as a Shoal Fin Keel> 5 No Description> 5’5" No Description> 6 Described as a Fin Keel> > Some of these may be from modifications as well. I am just curious what came out of the factory and what kind of keel they really are… (wing or fin)> > Thanks in advance for any insight!!!> > -Brad, Mary, and Monica Kuether> “Scholar”> 84’ C&C 29 MK II> Middle River, MD

2

Posted by crwindy@…> (crwindy@…>)

Just crack off the wind a little, and your Freedom 36/38 will fly. You can make
her go fast by yourself or just with your family. You can fly the chute without
a crew, and for most of your cruising, get there before the rest of the yacht
club.

From: “Brad Kuether” <bkuether@…>
Date: 2005/03/10 Thu PM 08:50:26 EST
To: <freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Freedom 38 Keel performance

Thanks everyone for that insight. Now to the meat of the matter!!!

The 4’6" Shoal fin keel will work for me. 6 feet is too much for where I am.
I have a 5’4" keel on my C&C, and thats about as deep as I want to go in the
Upper Chesapeake.

Any one with this keel have commentary on how well it points? I understand
everything is a compromise, and probably will not point as high as my current
C&C or the 6 foot keel.

Its amazing what happens when you own a performance boat. You never want to
go slow, and pointing becomes a source of pride… Problem is, performance
boats and young families don’t really go together…

Again, thanks in advance for any commentary!!!

-Brad, Mary, Jarod, and Monica Kuether
“Scholar”
84’ C&C 29 MK II
Middle River, MD
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael G Katz
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 8:50 AM
Subject: Re: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Freedom 38 Drafts and Keels

It is my understanding that the wing keel–which is 4’–originated as an
option on the first “true” 38s, i.e. when the factory started started making the
38s rather than simply offering an extension to the 36s. Also, a keels could be
retrofitted. I believe I learned this from Mark Edwards a couple of years ago
when I bought by '91 Freedom 38.
Michael Katz
----- Original Message -----
From: macks011
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 6:33 AM
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Freedom 38 Drafts and Keels

From the 1987 Factory literature....
Shoal draft - 4'-6" Ballast 6500 lbs., Deep draft 6"-0" Ballast 5530
lbs. I believe Wing keels were installed as shoal draft @ 4'-0" on
the '89 and later models.




--- In <freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com>, "Brad Kuether"
<bkuether@a...> wrote:
> Hey everyone,
>
> I have been looking at 38's and 36's now for a while, and am
finding the keel specs to be all over the board.  For 38s, I have
seen:
>
> 4     Described as a Wing Keel
> 4'6"  Described as a Shoal Fin Keel
> 5    No Description
> 5'5"    No Description
> 6    Described as a Fin Keel
>
> Some of these may be from modifications as well.  I am just
curious what came out of the factory and what kind of keel they
really are...  (wing or fin)
>
> Thanks in advance for any insight!!!
>
> -Brad, Mary, and Monica Kuether
> "Scholar"
> 84' C&C 29 MK II
> Middle River, MD





      Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            ADVERTISEMENT

Yahoo! Groups Links

  a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freedomyachts2003/

  b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  <freedomyachts2003-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com>

  c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
3

Posted by Michael G Katz (mgkatz@…>)

Brad–
I have a 38 wing, and am told it points a little better than the shoal, but not quite as well as the deep keel. I actually chartered a CC 38 with about a 7 foot fin in Lake Michigan before I bought my boat, and will say that it was about the best balance and most windward boat I have sailed. That said, it is nowhere near the boat the Freedom 38 is, and the reaching ability of the 38 is really something. I think it goes to windward just fine, and I usually have a big smile on my face. Perhaps more importantly, it is a family pleaser…stable, comfortable, roomy. My wife would have nothing else.
Michael Katz

----- Original Message -----
From: Brad Kuether
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 6:50 PM
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Freedom 38 Keel performance

Thanks everyone for that insight. Now to the meat of the matter!!!

The 4’6" Shoal fin keel will work for me. 6 feet is too much for where I am. I have a 5’4" keel on my C&C, and thats about as deep as I want to go in the Upper Chesapeake.

Any one with this keel have commentary on how well it points? I understand everything is a compromise, and probably will not point as high as my current C&C or the 6 foot keel.

Its amazing what happens when you own a performance boat. You never want to go slow, and pointing becomes a source of pride… Problem is, performance boats and young families don’t really go together…

Again, thanks in advance for any commentary!!!

-Brad, Mary, Jarod, and Monica Kuether"Scholar"84’ C&C 29 MK IIMiddle River, MD

----- Original Message -----
From: Michael G Katz
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 8:50 AM
Subject: Re: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Freedom 38 Drafts and Keels

It is my understanding that the wing keel–which is 4’–originated as an option on the first “true” 38s, i.e. when the factory started started making the 38s rather than simply offering an extension to the 36s. Also, a keels could be retrofitted. I believe I learned this from Mark Edwards a couple of years ago when I bought by '91 Freedom 38.
Michael Katz

----- Original Message -----
From: macks011
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 6:33 AM
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Freedom 38 Drafts and Keels
From the 1987 Factory literature…Shoal draft - 4’-6" Ballast 6500 lbs., Deep draft 6"-0" Ballast 5530 lbs. I believe Wing keels were installed as shoal draft @ 4’-0" on the ‘89 and later models.— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Brad Kuether” <bkuether@a…> wrote:> Hey everyone,> > I have been looking at 38’s and 36’s now for a while, and am finding the keel specs to be all over the board. For 38s, I have seen:> > 4 Described as a Wing Keel> 4’6" Described as a Shoal Fin Keel> 5 No Description> 5’5" No Description> 6 Described as a Fin Keel> > Some of these may be from modifications as well. I am just curious what came out of the factory and what kind of keel they really are… (wing or fin)> > Thanks in advance for any insight!!!> > -Brad, Mary, and Monica Kuether> “Scholar”> 84’ C&C 29 MK II> Middle River, MD

4

Posted by macks011 (macks04@…>)

One trick for max windward performance is to optimize the boom
sheeting. Do not over center the boom. In fact, just inside the ends
of the traveler is fine. Also, these boats were originally fitted
with cunninghams. Many owners have removed them. I find a cunningham
to be a useful tool on this boat. Craig is correct. Do not pinch the
boat. Crack off a little and you"ll feel like you are sailing a
locomotive. There is a power and inevitability to the motion that is
remarkable.




— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Michael G Katz”
<mgkatz@c…> wrote:

Brad–
I have a 38 wing, and am told it points a little better than the
shoal, but not quite as well as the deep keel. I actually chartered
a CC 38 with about a 7 foot fin in Lake Michigan before I bought my
boat, and will say that it was about the best balance and most
windward boat I have sailed. That said, it is nowhere near the boat
the Freedom 38 is, and the reaching ability of the 38 is really
something. I think it goes to windward just fine, and I usually
have a big smile on my face. Perhaps more importantly, it is a
family pleaser…stable, comfortable, roomy. My wife would have
nothing else.
Michael Katz
----- Original Message -----
From: Brad Kuether
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 6:50 PM
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Freedom 38 Keel performance

Thanks everyone for that insight. Now to the meat of the
matter!!!

The 4’6" Shoal fin keel will work for me. 6 feet is too much
for where I am. I have a 5’4" keel on my C&C, and thats about as
deep as I want to go in the Upper Chesapeake.

Any one with this keel have commentary on how well it points? I
understand everything is a compromise, and probably will not point
as high as my current C&C or the 6 foot keel.

Its amazing what happens when you own a performance boat. You
never want to go slow, and pointing becomes a source of pride…
Problem is, performance boats and young families don’t really go
together…

Again, thanks in advance for any commentary!!!

-Brad, Mary, Jarod, and Monica Kuether
“Scholar”
84’ C&C 29 MK II
Middle River, MD
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael G Katz
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 8:50 AM
Subject: Re: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Freedom 38 Drafts and
Keels

It is my understanding that the wing keel--which is 4'--

originated as an option on the first “true” 38s, i.e. when the
factory started started making the 38s rather than simply offering
an extension to the 36s. Also, a keels could be retrofitted. I
believe I learned this from Mark Edwards a couple of years ago when
I bought by '91 Freedom 38.

Michael Katz
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: macks011
  To: <freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com>
  Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 6:33 AM
  Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Freedom 38 Drafts and Keels



  From the 1987 Factory literature....
  Shoal draft - 4'-6" Ballast 6500 lbs., Deep draft 6"-0"

Ballast 5530

  lbs. I believe Wing keels were installed as shoal draft @ 4'-

0" on

  the '89 and later models.




  --- In <freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com>, "Brad Kuether"
  <bkuether@a...> wrote:
  > Hey everyone,
  >
  > I have been looking at 38's and 36's now for a while, and

am

  finding the keel specs to be all over the board.  For 38s, I

have

  seen:
  >
  > 4     Described as a Wing Keel
  > 4'6"  Described as a Shoal Fin Keel
  > 5    No Description
  > 5'5"    No Description
  > 6    Described as a Fin Keel
  >
  > Some of these may be from modifications as well.  I am

just

  curious what came out of the factory and what kind of keel

they

  really are...  (wing or fin)
  >
  > Thanks in advance for any insight!!!
  >
  > -Brad, Mary, and Monica Kuether
  > "Scholar"
  > 84' C&C 29 MK II
  > Middle River, MD







    Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          ADVERTISEMENT

Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freedomyachts2003/

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
<freedomyachts2003-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com>

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms

of Service.

5

Posted by macks011 (macks04@…>)

True story…after a bad experience in Buzzards Bay, My wife
demanded another boat or no boat. A participant on this board
offered us a demonstration sail on his F38. On the day of the demo
it was blowing 15 - 18kn. Close hauled, we were beginning to heel.
Shortly thereafter we heard, sotto vocce, " Honey???..Honey!!!"
from the owners wife. I look over at my wife and she’s giving me the
raised eyebrow and a shrug. Later, in the parking lot, her response
to “Well, how’d you like it?” was “Buy it”. We looked at no other
boats other than Freedoms.




— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Michael G Katz”
<mgkatz@c…> wrote:
… Perhaps more importantly, it is a family
pleaser…stable, comfortable, roomy. My wife would have nothing
else.

Michael Katz
----- Original Message -----
From: Brad Kuether
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 6:50 PM
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Freedom 38 Keel performance

Thanks everyone for that insight. Now to the meat of the
matter!!!

The 4’6" Shoal fin keel will work for me. 6 feet is too much
for where I am. I have a 5’4" keel on my C&C, and thats about as
deep as I want to go in the Upper Chesapeake.

Any one with this keel have commentary on how well it points? I
understand everything is a compromise, and probably will not point
as high as my current C&C or the 6 foot keel.

Its amazing what happens when you own a performance boat. You
never want to go slow, and pointing becomes a source of pride…
Problem is, performance boats and young families don’t really go
together…

Again, thanks in advance for any commentary!!!

-Brad, Mary, Jarod, and Monica Kuether
“Scholar”
84’ C&C 29 MK II
Middle River, MD
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael G Katz
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 8:50 AM
Subject: Re: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Freedom 38 Drafts and
Keels

It is my understanding that the wing keel--which is 4'--

originated as an option on the first “true” 38s, i.e. when the
factory started started making the 38s rather than simply offering
an extension to the 36s. Also, a keels could be retrofitted. I
believe I learned this from Mark Edwards a couple of years ago when
I bought by '91 Freedom 38.

Michael Katz
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: macks011
  To: <freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com>
  Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 6:33 AM
  Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Freedom 38 Drafts and Keels



  From the 1987 Factory literature....
  Shoal draft - 4'-6" Ballast 6500 lbs., Deep draft 6"-0"

Ballast 5530

  lbs. I believe Wing keels were installed as shoal draft @ 4'-

0" on

  the '89 and later models.




  --- In <freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com>, "Brad Kuether"
  <bkuether@a...> wrote:
  > Hey everyone,
  >
  > I have been looking at 38's and 36's now for a while, and

am

  finding the keel specs to be all over the board.  For 38s, I

have

  seen:
  >
  > 4     Described as a Wing Keel
  > 4'6"  Described as a Shoal Fin Keel
  > 5    No Description
  > 5'5"    No Description
  > 6    Described as a Fin Keel
  >
  > Some of these may be from modifications as well.  I am

just

  curious what came out of the factory and what kind of keel

they

  really are...  (wing or fin)
  >
  > Thanks in advance for any insight!!!
  >
  > -Brad, Mary, and Monica Kuether
  > "Scholar"
  > 84' C&C 29 MK II
  > Middle River, MD







    Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          ADVERTISEMENT

Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freedomyachts2003/

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
<freedomyachts2003-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com>

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms

of Service.