Freedom offshore

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1

Posted by kestrel1857 (zenda@…>)

Hello all,
Reading Reuel Parker has peaked my interest in cat rigs. Would you
consider the Freedom 28 a suitable design for extended offshore
sailing? I’ve been looking for hours, but can’t find a picture or
lines drawing of the hull below the waterline for any of the Freedoms.
Any feedback would be appreciated.

2

Posted by michel.capel (michel.capel@…>)

Allthough small, the F28 catketch is certainly a seaworthy able
little ship. I know of one transatlantic crossing in bad weather of
an F28. If you try to locate F28’s for sale on the web, you might
run into pics of the underbody. Line drawings of Freedoms were never
public, I believe.
Regards,
Michel


— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “kestrel1857” <zenda@…>
wrote:

Hello all,
Reading Reuel Parker has peaked my interest in cat rigs. Would you
consider the Freedom 28 a suitable design for extended offshore
sailing? I’ve been looking for hours, but can’t find a picture or
lines drawing of the hull below the waterline for any of the
Freedoms.
Any feedback would be appreciated.

3

Posted by Wilfred Bishop (wilf.bishop@…>)

Regarding lines drawings of Freedom yachts I would dearly love to make-up a half model for my study wall of the little Freedom 21 that I sail but despite a thorough Internet search and emails/letters to Gary Hoyt I have had no success - so I guess I will have to make it a winter project when Daydream is back on her trailer & laboriously take-off hull lines the time honoured way in order to make the half model.

Since sadly it is unlikely that anyone will ever revive the Freedom 21 in production again and far less likely that anyone would build a one-off “illegal” hull from a set of line drawings I am at a loss to understand why this secrecy about hull lines exists? Other great designers from Uffa Fox to Nigel Irens have been quite happy to freely publish their hull lines and in reality the production of one-off “illegal” hulls from small scale drawings would be virtually impossible without a an accurate table of offsets.

So without hours of patient taking off of lines and repeated fairing & re-fairing of lines on a drawing board (yes I really am that old) I guess I will have to sit by the fire with a gin & tonic looking up at the other half models of boats I have owned with a gap where the Freedom 21 should have been?

Sorry about the rant - its just very frustrating & disappointing!

Wilf Bishop
Freedom 21 “Daydream”

----- Original Message -----
From: michel.capel
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 10:32 AM
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Freedom offshore
Allthough small, the F28 catketch is certainly a seaworthy able little ship. I know of one transatlantic crossing in bad weather of an F28. If you try to locate F28’s for sale on the web, you might run into pics of the underbody. Line drawings of Freedoms were never public, I believe. Regards,Michel — In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “kestrel1857” <zenda@…> wrote:>> Hello all,> Reading Reuel Parker has peaked my interest in cat rigs. Would you> consider the Freedom 28 a suitable design for extended offshore> sailing? I’ve been looking for hours, but can’t find a picture or> lines drawing of the hull below the waterline for any of the Freedoms.> Any feedback would be appreciated.>

4

Posted by James Carpenter (zenda@…>)

Michel,
I just found out that that there were two models of the F28 produced. Would you happen to know what year the second model went into production, and which one is seaworthy?
Thanks,
JamesC


From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com [mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of michel.capelSent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 4:32 AMTo: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.comSubject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Freedom offshore
Allthough small, the F28 catketch is certainly a seaworthy able little ship. I know of one transatlantic crossing in bad weather of an F28. If you try to locate F28’s for sale on the web, you might run into pics of the underbody. Line drawings of Freedoms were never public, I believe. Regards,Michel — In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “kestrel1857” <zenda@…> wrote:>> Hello all,> Reading Reuel Parker has peaked my interest in cat rigs. Would you> consider the Freedom 28 a suitable design for extended offshore> sailing? I’ve been looking for hours, but can’t find a picture or> lines drawing of the hull below the waterline for any of the Freedoms.> Any feedback would be appreciated.>

5

Posted by Dave_Benjamin (dave_benjamin@…>)

I think you’ll find Al MacDiarmid’s story useful

http://www.homestead.com/broadreacher/


— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “kestrel1857” <zenda@…>
wrote:

Hello all,
Reading Reuel Parker has peaked my interest in cat rigs. Would you
consider the Freedom 28 a suitable design for extended offshore
sailing? I’ve been looking for hours, but can’t find a picture or
lines drawing of the hull below the waterline for any of the
Freedoms.
Any feedback would be appreciated.

6

Posted by James Carpenter (zenda@…>)

Great! Thanks for the link!
JamesC


From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com [mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dave_BenjaminSent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 9:53 PMTo: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.comSubject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Freedom offshore
I think you’ll find Al MacDiarmid’s story usefulhttp://www.homestead.com/broadreacher/— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “kestrel1857” <zenda@…> wrote:>> Hello all,> Reading Reuel Parker has peaked my interest in cat rigs. Would you> consider the Freedom 28 a suitable design for extended offshore> sailing? I’ve been looking for hours, but can’t find a picture or> lines drawing of the hull below the waterline for any of the Freedoms.> Any feedback would be appreciated.>

7

Posted by svfantasy@… (svfantasy@…)
What a coincidence! Broad Reacher is the vessel I was refering to in our marina in Antioch, Ca. Would love to speak with Al when he once again comes to Antioch.
----- Original Message -----From: Dave_Benjamin To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.comSubject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Freedom offshoreDate: Wed, 24 May 2006 02:53:24 -0000I think you’ll find Al MacDiarmid’s story usefulhttp://www.homestead.com/broadreacher/— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “kestrel1857” <zenda@…> wrote:>> Hello all,> Reading Reuel Parker has peaked my interest in cat rigs. Would you> consider the Freedom 28 a suitable design for extended offshore> sailing? I’ve been looking for hours, but can’t find a picture or> lines drawing of the hull below the waterline for any of the Freedoms.> Any feedback would be appreciated.>

8

Posted by michel.capel (michel.capel@…>)

No, sorry, I don’t. I only have knowledge of the catketches.

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “James Carpenter”
<zenda@…> wrote:

Michel,
I just found out that that there were two models of the F28
produced. Would
you happen to know what year the second model went into
production, and
which one is seaworthy?
Thanks,
JamesC

From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
michel.capel
Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 4:32 AM
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Freedom offshore

Allthough small, the F28 catketch is certainly a seaworthy able
little ship. I know of one transatlantic crossing in bad weather
of
an F28. If you try to locate F28’s for sale on the web, you might
run into pics of the underbody. Line drawings of Freedoms were
never
public, I believe.
Regards,
Michel

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “kestrel1857” <zenda@>
wrote:

Hello all,
Reading Reuel Parker has peaked my interest in cat rigs. Would
you
consider the Freedom 28 a suitable design for extended offshore
sailing? I’ve been looking for hours, but can’t find a picture or
lines drawing of the hull below the waterline for any of the
Freedoms.
Any feedback would be appreciated.

SPONSORED LINKS
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9

Posted by michel.capel (michel.capel@…>)

I know the feeling, I would have loved to make a half model of my
F33 catketch. Most yacht designers, especially of successful designs
of which many yachts were built, are quite secretive about the exact
lines of their designs. It’s their living, so I do understand that.
Even so it’s a pity we can’t make these models.

michel

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Wilfred Bishop”
<wilf.bishop@…> wrote:

Regarding lines drawings of Freedom yachts I would dearly love to
make-up a half model for my study wall of the little Freedom 21 that
I sail but despite a thorough Internet search and emails/letters to
Gary Hoyt I have had no success - so I guess I will have to make it
a winter project when Daydream is back on her trailer & laboriously
take-off hull lines the time honoured way in order to make the half
model.

Since sadly it is unlikely that anyone will ever revive the
Freedom 21 in production again and far less likely that anyone would
build a one-off “illegal” hull from a set of line drawings I am at a
loss to understand why this secrecy about hull lines exists? Other
great designers from Uffa Fox to Nigel Irens have been quite happy
to freely publish their hull lines and in reality the production of
one-off “illegal” hulls from small scale drawings would be virtually
impossible without a an accurate table of offsets.

So without hours of patient taking off of lines and repeated
fairing & re-fairing of lines on a drawing board (yes I really am
that old) I guess I will have to sit by the fire with a gin & tonic
looking up at the other half models of boats I have owned with a gap
where the Freedom 21 should have been?

Sorry about the rant - its just very frustrating & disappointing!

Wilf Bishop
Freedom 21 “Daydream”
----- Original Message -----
From: michel.capel
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 10:32 AM
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Freedom offshore

Allthough small, the F28 catketch is certainly a seaworthy able
little ship. I know of one transatlantic crossing in bad weather
of
an F28. If you try to locate F28’s for sale on the web, you
might
run into pics of the underbody. Line drawings of Freedoms were
never
public, I believe.
Regards,
Michel

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “kestrel1857” <zenda@>
wrote:

Hello all,
Reading Reuel Parker has peaked my interest in cat rigs. Would
you
consider the Freedom 28 a suitable design for extended offshore
sailing? I’ve been looking for hours, but can’t find a picture
or
lines drawing of the hull below the waterline for any of the
Freedoms.
Any feedback would be appreciated.

SPONSORED LINKS Sailing schools Sailing instruction Sailing
lesson
Sailing course Sailing adventure Sailing

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

a..  Visit your group "freedomyachts2003" on the web.

b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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10

Posted by Alan Kusinitz (akusinitz@…>)


J. Paris said he could provide half models
of the F-33 if there were enough of us that wanted them to make it worthwhile.
If anyone’s interested let me know and I’ll contact him again.
Alan F-33





From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com [mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of michel.capel
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 4:23
AM
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re:
Freedom offshore

I know the feeling, I
would have loved to make a half model of my
F33 catketch. Most yacht designers, especially of successful designs
of which many yachts were built, are quite secretive about the exact
lines of their designs. It’s their living, so I do understand that.
Even so it’s a pity we can’t make these models.

michel

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com,
“Wilfred Bishop”
<wilf.bishop@…> wrote:

Regarding lines drawings of Freedom yachts I would dearly love to
make-up a half model for my study wall of the little Freedom 21 that
I sail but despite a thorough Internet search and emails/letters to
Gary Hoyt I have had no success - so I guess I will have to make it
a winter project when Daydream is back on her trailer & laboriously
take-off hull lines the time honoured way in order to make the half
model.

Since sadly it is unlikely that anyone will ever revive the
Freedom 21 in production again and far less likely that anyone would
build a one-off “illegal” hull from a set of line drawings I am at a
loss to understand why this secrecy about hull lines exists? Other
great designers from Uffa Fox to Nigel Irens have been quite happy
to freely publish their hull lines and in reality the production of
one-off “illegal” hulls from small scale drawings would be virtually
impossible without a an accurate table of offsets.

So without hours of patient taking off of lines and repeated
fairing & re-fairing of lines on a drawing board (yes I really am
that old) I guess I will have to sit by the fire with a gin & tonic
looking up at the other half models of boats I have owned with a gap
where the Freedom 21 should have been?

Sorry about the rant - its just very frustrating & disappointing!

Wilf Bishop
Freedom 21 “Daydream”
----- Original Message -----
From: michel.capel
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 10:32 AM
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Freedom offshore

Allthough small, the F28 catketch is certainly a seaworthy
able
little ship. I know of one transatlantic crossing in bad
weather
of
an F28. If you try to locate F28’s for sale on the web, you
might
run into pics of the underbody. Line drawings of Freedoms were

never

public, I believe.
Regards,
Michel

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com,
“kestrel1857” <zenda@>
wrote:

Hello all,
Reading Reuel Parker has peaked my interest in cat rigs.
Would
you
consider the Freedom 28 a suitable design for extended
offshore
sailing? I’ve been looking for hours, but can’t find a
picture
or
lines drawing of the hull below the waterline for any of
the
Freedoms.
Any feedback would be appreciated.

SPONSORED LINKS Sailing schools Sailing
instruction Sailing
lesson
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11

Posted by Herman and Gail Schiller (hschiller2@…>)

I have some very faded copies of blueprints of the interior and
sailplan of the Mull-designed Freedom 28. All these drawings are
dated 1986, and since I have hull number 29, which was an '87, sold
to the original owner in August ‘88, I’d say that the first Mull28’
were built in '86. Herm

At 04:15 AM 5/24/2006, you wrote:

No, sorry, I don’t. I only have knowledge of the catketches.

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “James Carpenter”
<zenda@…> wrote:

Michel,
I just found out that that there were two models of the F28
produced. Would
you happen to know what year the second model went into
production, and
which one is seaworthy?
Thanks,
JamesC

From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
michel.capel
Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 4:32 AM
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Freedom offshore

Allthough small, the F28 catketch is certainly a seaworthy able
little ship. I know of one transatlantic crossing in bad weather
of
an F28. If you try to locate F28’s for sale on the web, you might
run into pics of the underbody. Line drawings of Freedoms were
never
public, I believe.
Regards,
Michel

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “kestrel1857” <zenda@>
wrote:

Hello all,
Reading Reuel Parker has peaked my interest in cat rigs. Would
you
consider the Freedom 28 a suitable design for extended offshore
sailing? I’ve been looking for hours, but can’t find a picture or
lines drawing of the hull below the waterline for any of the
Freedoms.
Any feedback would be appreciated.

SPONSORED LINKS
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12

Posted by harv1752 (harv17@…>)

I had a set of lines of my F-25 drawn for me by Todd Dunn. His old
email address is todddunn@… If it dosn’t work, his phone
is 207-244-3471. The charge was reasonable. He also builds custom
half models to order.




— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “michel.capel”
<michel.capel@…> wrote:

I know the feeling, I would have loved to make a half model of my
F33 catketch. Most yacht designers, especially of successful
designs
of which many yachts were built, are quite secretive about the
exact
lines of their designs. It’s their living, so I do understand
that.
Even so it’s a pity we can’t make these models.

michel

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Wilfred Bishop”
<wilf.bishop@> wrote:

Regarding lines drawings of Freedom yachts I would dearly love
to
make-up a half model for my study wall of the little Freedom 21
that
I sail but despite a thorough Internet search and emails/letters
to
Gary Hoyt I have had no success - so I guess I will have to make
it
a winter project when Daydream is back on her trailer &
laboriously
take-off hull lines the time honoured way in order to make the
half
model.

Since sadly it is unlikely that anyone will ever revive the
Freedom 21 in production again and far less likely that anyone
would
build a one-off “illegal” hull from a set of line drawings I am at
a
loss to understand why this secrecy about hull lines exists?
Other
great designers from Uffa Fox to Nigel Irens have been quite happy
to freely publish their hull lines and in reality the production
of
one-off “illegal” hulls from small scale drawings would be
virtually
impossible without a an accurate table of offsets.

So without hours of patient taking off of lines and repeated
fairing & re-fairing of lines on a drawing board (yes I really am
that old) I guess I will have to sit by the fire with a gin &
tonic
looking up at the other half models of boats I have owned with a
gap
where the Freedom 21 should have been?

Sorry about the rant - its just very frustrating & disappointing!

Wilf Bishop

13

Posted by markedwards55 (markedwards55@…>)

In reviewing the various responses to this question I haven’t come
across one that speaks to the issue of suitability for extended
offshore cruising. The simple answer to this is “YES” it is indeed
well suited for cruising offshore.

There is a longer answer of course. As with any Freedom (or any
make boat for that matter), it is recommended that the owner buy a
copy of the ORC regulations for racing offshore and make your boat
comply. That will get into issues such as the security of the
companionway drop boards and sliders and securing sole boards,
storage covers, storm sail management, and alternative steering
should your rudder fail. The ORC regs are geared for racing boats
but in my opinion apply very well to cruisers. The essential boat,
that is the hull, deck, gear, rig, is all good if you meet ORC
requirements.

With specific reference to the different Freedom 28 designs: there
are three. There is the sloop designed by Gary Mull and built in
the late 1980’s. There are also two versions of the cat ketch rigged
Freedom 28 built in the early 1980’s which you are asking about.
The “Hoyt” ketch design and the Mull sloop design could not be more
different. The ketch rigged boats are patterned after the Jay
Parris designed Freedom 33, and as with the 33, the 28 was drawn and
built originally with a centerboard. Both centerboard and keel
versions of the ketch 28 have proven themselves over the years.
There are many more MK II keel versions built and some might argue
this would be preferrable for extended offshore cruising because of
its simplicity and the absence of the centerboard trunk. I might
still have some illustrations of the underbody of both designs (no
lines plans sorry) but in both cases the hull is essentially a full
keel underbody in which the sweep of the forefoot continues aft to
the transom. In the case of the keel version MK II,there is a
cruising keel appended to the bottom that hangs below this
hull sweep.

I don’t know if this helps your thinking of this model for your
purposes but perhaps it sheds a better picture for you and I will
look in my files at home to see what images I might have that would
help further.
Mark Edwards, CPYB (formally of Freedom Yachts)

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “kestrel1857” <zenda@…>
wrote:

Hello all,
Reading Reuel Parker has peaked my interest in cat rigs. Would you
consider the Freedom 28 a suitable design for extended offshore
sailing? I’ve been looking for hours, but can’t find a picture or
lines drawing of the hull below the waterline for any of the
Freedoms.
Any feedback would be appreciated.

14

Posted by lance_ryley (lance_ryley@…>)

Great to see you on the board, Mark!

Lance
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “markedwards55”
<markedwards55@…> wrote:

In reviewing the various responses to this question I haven’t come
across one that speaks to the issue of suitability for extended
offshore cruising. The simple answer to this is “YES” it is
indeed
well suited for cruising offshore.

There is a longer answer of course. As with any Freedom (or any
make boat for that matter), it is recommended that the owner buy a
copy of the ORC regulations for racing offshore and make your boat
comply. That will get into issues such as the security of the
companionway drop boards and sliders and securing sole boards,
storage covers, storm sail management, and alternative steering
should your rudder fail. The ORC regs are geared for racing boats
but in my opinion apply very well to cruisers. The essential
boat,
that is the hull, deck, gear, rig, is all good if you meet ORC
requirements.

With specific reference to the different Freedom 28 designs: there
are three. There is the sloop designed by Gary Mull and built in
the late 1980’s. There are also two versions of the cat ketch
rigged
Freedom 28 built in the early 1980’s which you are asking about.
The “Hoyt” ketch design and the Mull sloop design could not be
more
different. The ketch rigged boats are patterned after the Jay
Parris designed Freedom 33, and as with the 33, the 28 was drawn
and
built originally with a centerboard. Both centerboard and keel
versions of the ketch 28 have proven themselves over the years.
There are many more MK II keel versions built and some might argue
this would be preferrable for extended offshore cruising because
of
its simplicity and the absence of the centerboard trunk. I might
still have some illustrations of the underbody of both designs (no
lines plans sorry) but in both cases the hull is essentially a
full
keel underbody in which the sweep of the forefoot continues aft to
the transom. In the case of the keel version MK II,there is a
cruising keel appended to the bottom that hangs below this
hull sweep.

I don’t know if this helps your thinking of this model for your
purposes but perhaps it sheds a better picture for you and I will
look in my files at home to see what images I might have that
would
help further.
Mark Edwards, CPYB (formally of Freedom Yachts)

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “kestrel1857” <zenda@>
wrote:

Hello all,
Reading Reuel Parker has peaked my interest in cat rigs. Would
you
consider the Freedom 28 a suitable design for extended offshore
sailing? I’ve been looking for hours, but can’t find a picture or
lines drawing of the hull below the waterline for any of the
Freedoms.
Any feedback would be appreciated.

15

Posted by James Carpenter (zenda@…>)

Mark,
Thank you very much for your assistance in pursuing more information about these boats. I’m glad you wrote in, as the only address I had for you was at Freedom Yachts.
Thanks again,
JamesC


From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com [mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of markedwards55Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 3:28 PMTo: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.comSubject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Freedom offshore
In reviewing the various responses to this question I haven’t come across one that speaks to the issue of suitability for extended offshore cruising. The simple answer to this is “YES” it is indeed well suited for cruising offshore. There is a longer answer of course. As with any Freedom (or any make boat for that matter), it is recommended that the owner buy a copy of the ORC regulations for racing offshore and make your boat comply. That will get into issues such as the security of the companionway drop boards and sliders and securing sole boards, storage covers, storm sail management, and alternative steering should your rudder fail. The ORC regs are geared for racing boats but in my opinion apply very well to cruisers. The essential boat, that is the hull, deck, gear, rig, is all good if you meet ORC requirements. With specific reference to the different Freedom 28 designs: there are three. There is the sloop designed by Gary Mull and built in the late 1980’s. There are also two versions of the cat ketch rigged Freedom 28 built in the early 1980’s which you are asking about. The “Hoyt” ketch design and the Mull sloop design could not be more different. The ketch rigged boats are patterned after the Jay Parris designed Freedom 33, and as with the 33, the 28 was drawn and built originally with a centerboard. Both centerboard and keel versions of the ketch 28 have proven themselves over the years. There are many more MK II keel versions built and some might argue this would be preferrable for extended offshore cruising because of its simplicity and the absence of the centerboard trunk. I might still have some illustrations of the underbody of both designs (no lines plans sorry) but in both cases the hull is essentially a full keel underbody in which the sweep of the forefoot continues aft to the transom. In the case of the keel version MK II,there is a cruising keel appended to the bottom that hangs below this hull sweep. I don’t know if this helps your thinking of this model for your purposes but perhaps it sheds a better picture for you and I will look in my files at home to see what images I might have that would help further.Mark Edwards, CPYB (formally of Freedom Yachts) — In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “kestrel1857” <zenda@…> wrote:>> Hello all,> Reading Reuel Parker has peaked my interest in cat rigs. Would you> consider the Freedom 28 a suitable design for extended offshore> sailing? I’ve been looking for hours, but can’t find a picture or> lines drawing of the hull below the waterline for any of the Freedoms.> Any feedback would be appreciated.>