Gun Mount Spinnakers

[ron_barr]

Posted by ron barr (rwhb@…>)


We’re new to a F32 with a gun mount. While I have heard people
extolling the virtue of that set up I have to say all the gear on the foredeck
seems crazy on a cruising boat. Plus the gargantuan pole really gets in the way
going forward and there are lines all over the place. The F32 is cramped enough
near the bow so how one sets up seamanlike ready to go anchor gear with all
that stuff in the way mystifies me. Given the presumably few opportunities one
has to use the spinnaker is the whole set up worth it— F32 owners??

Ron
Newport RI 02840

From:
FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of rick_simonds
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 6:44 PM
To: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Re: Are Freedom Yachts as fun as they
look?

\

— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com,
“Freeman Dodsworth”
<freemandodsworth@…> wrote:

Hi all,
I lurk around here while I look for a new boat. Perhaps a F32 or
F33
if I can find the right one. My question for you is simple: Are
the
Freedoms as much fun to sail as a sloop/cutter or ketch? Can you
get
the thrill of the drive that a big genny gives you? Are the cat
ketches and sloops simply too easy to be really exhilerating? Or
are
they as much darn fun as they look to be? Silly question. But
still…
Thanks again.

Freeman

“Fun” is subjective and everyone will find it in a different boat. I
get a lot of satisfaction that my boat essentially sails itself with
minimum fuss. I spend my time relaxing, cooking good food and
enjoying the company of friends.

I agree with another poster who said dinghy sailing is where
the “fun” of sailing is. I’d add that, sailing exhilaration-wise, the

first time you really get a perfect day and you get a sailboard up on
a full blast plane, just the last foot of the tail touching the
water, your butt about 6" off the water, the whole board just
skipping off the tops of the waves, even finally getting overpowered
and physically flung about 20 feet by the sail as you and the whole
board crash and burn, …the feel of raw power, acceleration and
speed is laugh-out-loud overwhelming. THAT’S fun. “Sit-down”
sailing, especially bigger boat sit-down sailing, is more of an inner
fun.

Still, I will add what I think is a universal Freedom “Nothin’-But-
Fun” statement:

Gunmount spinnakers are FUN: A spinnaker that you are actually
willing to fly is worth 1000 spinnakers that stay forever in the bag.
Even singlehanded, as soon as I’m a bit off the wind mine goes up and
the boat leaps to life and steers with the touch of a finger on the
wheel. It never gets old. I get a dopey grin every time.

Rick
Tallahassee


\

[Larry_and_Linda_Krau]

Posted by Larry and Linda Kraus (kracherlandl@…>)

Gee, our sentiments too. We’ve had an F32 for 2 short sailing seasons
now. Our only experience with the spinnaker is tripping over the lines
and having more than necessary work setting and retrieving the anchor.
We’ve decided to leave the set up on, for now, until we’ve had a chance
to try the rig. But we also would like to hear what others say.

Larry and Linda
Wind Sonnet F32 '84
ron barr wrote:

We’re new to a F32 with a gun mount. While I have heard people
extolling the virtue of that set up I have to say all the gear on the
foredeck seems crazy on a cruising boat. Plus the gargantuan pole
really gets in the way going forward and there are lines all over the
place. The F32 is cramped enough near the bow so how one sets up
seamanlike ready to go anchor gear with all that stuff in the way
mystifies me. Given the presumably few opportunities one has to use
the spinnaker is the whole set up worth it— F32 owners??

Ron

Newport RI 02840

From: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *rick_simonds
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 6:44 PM
To: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Re: Are Freedom Yachts as fun as they
look?

— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup%40yahoogroups.com, “Freeman Dodsworth”
<freemandodsworth@…> wrote:

Hi all,
I lurk around here while I look for a new boat. Perhaps a F32 or
F33
if I can find the right one. My question for you is simple: Are
the
Freedoms as much fun to sail as a sloop/cutter or ketch? Can you
get
the thrill of the drive that a big genny gives you? Are the cat
ketches and sloops simply too easy to be really exhilerating? Or
are
they as much darn fun as they look to be? Silly question. But
still…
Thanks again.

Freeman

“Fun” is subjective and everyone will find it in a different boat. I
get a lot of satisfaction that my boat essentially sails itself with
minimum fuss. I spend my time relaxing, cooking good food and
enjoying the company of friends.

I agree with another poster who said dinghy sailing is where
the “fun” of sailing is. I’d add that, sailing exhilaration-wise, the
first time you really get a perfect day and you get a sailboard up on
a full blast plane, just the last foot of the tail touching the
water, your butt about 6" off the water, the whole board just
skipping off the tops of the waves, even finally getting overpowered
and physically flung about 20 feet by the sail as you and the whole
board crash and burn, …the feel of raw power, acceleration and
speed is laugh-out-loud overwhelming. THAT’S fun. “Sit-down”
sailing, especially bigger boat sit-down sailing, is more of an inner
fun.

Still, I will add what I think is a universal Freedom “Nothin’-But-
Fun” statement:

Gunmount spinnakers are FUN: A spinnaker that you are actually
willing to fly is worth 1000 spinnakers that stay forever in the bag.
Even singlehanded, as soon as I’m a bit off the wind mine goes up and
the boat leaps to life and steers with the touch of a finger on the
wheel. It never gets old. I get a dopey grin every time.

Rick
Tallahassee

[Herman_and_Gail_Schi]

Posted by Herman and Gail Schiller (hschiller2@…>)

Imagine what the F-25’s bow area looked like. It had a pair of lines
that extended/retracted the pole itself, in addition to all those
lines you have on the F-32. The F-25 is only about 1/3 the size of
the F-32. BTW, the F-21 also had this setup. Herm

At 07:32 PM 10/31/2007, you wrote:

We’re new to a F32 with a gun mount. While I have heard people
extolling the virtue of that set up I have to say all the gear on
the foredeck seems crazy on a cruising boat. Plus the gargantuan
pole really gets in the way going forward and there are lines all
over the place. The F32 is cramped enough near the bow so how one
sets up seamanlike ready to go anchor gear with all that stuff in
the way mystifies me. Given the presumably few opportunities one has
to use the spinnaker is the whole set up worth it— F32 owners??

Ron

Newport RI 02840

From: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rick_simonds
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 6:44 PM
To: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Re: Are Freedom Yachts as fun as they look?

— In
mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup%40yahoogroups.comFreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
,
“Freeman Dodsworth”
<freemandodsworth@…> wrote:

Hi all,
I lurk around here while I look for a new boat. Perhaps a F32 or
F33
if I can find the right one. My question for you is simple: Are
the
Freedoms as much fun to sail as a sloop/cutter or ketch? Can you
get
the thrill of the drive that a big genny gives you? Are the cat
ketches and sloops simply too easy to be really exhilerating? Or
are
they as much darn fun as they look to be? Silly question. But
still…
Thanks again.

Freeman

“Fun” is subjective and everyone will find it in a different boat. I
get a lot of satisfaction that my boat essentially sails itself with
minimum fuss. I spend my time relaxing, cooking good food and
enjoying the company of friends.

I agree with another poster who said dinghy sailing is where
the “fun” of sailing is. I’d add that, sailing exhilaration-wise, the
first time you really get a perfect day and you get a sailboard up on
a full blast plane, just the last foot of the tail touching the
water, your butt about 6" off the water, the whole board just
skipping off the tops of the waves, even finally getting overpowered
and physically flung about 20 feet by the sail as you and the whole
board crash and burn, …the feel of raw power, acceleration and
speed is laugh-out-loud overwhelming. THAT’S fun. “Sit-down”
sailing, especially bigger boat sit-down sailing, is more of an inner
fun.

Still, I will add what I think is a universal Freedom “Nothin’-But-
Fun” statement:

Gunmount spinnakers are FUN: A spinnaker that you are actually
willing to fly is worth 1000 spinnakers that stay forever in the bag.
Even singlehanded, as soon as I’m a bit off the wind mine goes up and
the boat leaps to life and steers with the touch of a finger on the
wheel. It never gets old. I get a dopey grin every time.

Rick
Tallahassee

[rick_simonds1]

Posted by rick_simonds (rick_simonds@…>)

— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “ron barr” <rwhb@…>
wrote:

We’re new to a F32 with a gun mount. While I have heard people
extolling the
virtue of that set up I have to say all the gear on the foredeck
seems crazy
on a cruising boat. Plus the gargantuan pole really gets in the way
going
forward and there are lines all over the place. The F32 is cramped
enough
near the bow so how one sets up seamanlike ready to go anchor
gear with
all that stuff in the way mystifies me. Given the presumably few
opportunities one has to use the spinnaker is the whole set up
worth it—
F32 owners??

Ron

Newport RI 02840

I’ve always seemed to be the head cheerleader for Gunmount
spinnakers, it is my favorite feature of my boat, but I am also
a “different boats, different long splices” kind of guy. Some may not
see it as worthwhile. I’m good with that.

I also think that sailors should steal a classification used by
bicyclists: not a casual rider, not a racer, but “performance
recreational” rider - a person who isn’t carrying a stopwatch, and
never will, but also a person who gets enjoyment from doing the sport
well and seeks improvement. Sailing-wise, I’m one of those. I enjoy
sailing well.

Yeah, there’s stuff on the foredeck that’s in the way when anchoring,
mostly just the spinnaker bag itself. I don’t think it’s even close
to being intolerable. My pole rests on the lifelines, I don’t see it
as being in the way at all. I also think a sailboat should first be a
SAILBOAT: I sail far more than I anchor, the sailing gear is what it
is, it deserves space, it makes the boat go, it is the reason I’m
there. I am more than willing to have a bit more trouble getting to
the anchor in exchange for the sheer fun and performance of the
spinnaker. The anchor takes, what, maybe an extra 30 seconds to
deploy because of the spinnaker stuff? I know that in advance and
plan my anchoring approach accordingly.

Should a cruising boat even have a spinnaker at all? Unquestionably,
YES! Sailing deeper than a beam reach is a mind-numbing bore without
a spinnaker, sailing with one is often the fastest point of sail. The
boat will often not balance well enough to self steer off the wind.
It usually will with a spinnaker, though. The helm is light and
lively and responsive when the boat is moving well. I’ve had a dozen
instances of a perfect, full power, rock steady, 6 1/2 knot runs
straight to my destination steering by windvane alone when the non-
spinnaker version of the same trip would have been a endless, slow,
rolling, hand-steering PITA. Spinnakers work.

I really don’t see how people manage without some sort of downwind
sail. Bless their hearts and perhaps I should work on my zen-like
patience, but I really think there’s no substitute for putting up
sheer square footage of sail area off the wind. So how about a
asymmetric or a spinnaker sock or twin jibs, or whatever else,
instead of a gunmount spinnaker? I’ve used all that stuff on other
boats. They are about as much work and trouble and less effective.
How about a conventional spinnaker? Forget it. You’ll never put it up
more than once.

A gunmount is a cakewalk to put up, a zero-effort sail to fly, though
it can be a bit of a handful to get down. Still, I’ve never seen any
downwind sail that comes close to “effort/effectiveness” ratio. And
yes, spinnakers, even a gunmount one, are a bit of work.

So is sex.

It’s worth it.

(By the way, a long time ago I wrote out exact, step-by-step Gunmount
spinnaker instructions for a woman I was dating. I ended up posting
those instructions and that post got re-posted several times. The
woman is way long gone but the instructions are at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freedomyachts2003/message/454 )

[lance_ryley]

Posted by lance_ryley (lance_ryley@…>)

Rick,
I took the liberty of converting your excellent post into a pdf. The
file is in the “Gunmount Spinnaker” folder.

I have a question about the hoist - Herm said you hoist the sail with
the clews all the way in and the pole already squared. do you run
into a problem with the sail being full and not being able to get the
halyard all the way up, or is that what the self-tailing winch is
for? On a conventional spin, or even an A-sail, you don’t trim the
clew until the halyard’s made.

As far as spinnakers on a cruising boat, I have to agree. cruising
sailors tend to run their motors in two conditions - upwind and
downwind. While Glory doesn’t have a gunmount (I could see how
cluttered the foredeck would be with two cruising anchors, gunmount
gear AND a camberspar jib!), it does have a North Gennaker with a
sock. The first time we used it was on the test sail with the
previous owners, and we went from 5.5 kts with just the main up to
8.5 with the Gennaker. The second time we flew it was from Boothbay
out and around Monhegan, and it provided enough power on a very light-
air day to keep up with many of the New York Yacht Club boats during
their race.There’s definitely some technique to flying an A-sail, and
we don’t get true downwind performance, but it’s pretty easy to fly,
easy to jibe, and easy to depower when the winds pick up suddenly.
The advantages of an A-sail or a gunmount spinnaker (or a mizzen
spinnaker for the cat-ketch guys) seem pretty clear. They’re a bit
more work, and you definitely need to practice, but they can take a
ho-hum day and turn it into a very satisfying passage.

Lance
Glory

[ron_barr]

Posted by ron barr (rwhb@…>)


Pressing on with this subject, and my thoughts on the highly
cluttered gun mount set up- at least on an F32. What experience do people have
with bloopers or gennakers or drifters for this boat? Anything that will work
without a truckload of poles and lines!!!

Anybody want to buy a spinnaker (hardly used) and gun mount set
up???

Ron

Newport RI

From:
FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of lance_ryley
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 8:15 AM
To: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Re: Gun Mount Spinnakers

\

As far as spinnakers on a cruising boat, I have
to agree. cruising
sailors tend to run their motors in two conditions - upwind and
downwind. While Glory doesn’t have a gunmount (I could see how
cluttered the foredeck would be with two cruising anchors, gunmount
gear AND a camberspar jib!), it does have a North Gennaker with a
sock.
Lance
Glory


\

---

[ron_barr]

Posted by ron barr (rwhb@…>)


I don’t even want to think about it – that kind of stuff is fine
for around the buoys when you’re a teenager but not on a serious cruising boat
IMHO.
But the extra gun mount lines came in handy the other day when
we arrived at the dock for haul out and found that some SOB had ripped off all
our docking lines whilst on the mooring recently!!

Ron
Newport RI

From: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Herman and Gail
Schiller
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 9:12 PM
To: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Gun Mount Spinnakers

\

Imagine what the F-25’s bow area looked like.
It had a pair of lines
that extended/retracted the pole itself, in addition to all those
lines you have on the F-32. The F-25 is only about 1/3 the size of
the F-32. BTW, the F-21 also had this setup. Herm






\

[ron_barr]

Posted by ron barr (rwhb@…>)


OK Rick,

I see your point of view, and that’s fine. However I am
not (at my time of life and maturity so to speak ) out to get every knot from
the boat. I am however a pretty experienced cruiser of over 40 years and frankly
anchoring safely and quickly when needed is much more important priority
to a cruiser. Every extra knot is not a priority – that’s why I
have an engine. Same thing upwind.

Yesterday we were running up the Bay, dead downwind wing and
wing – that camber jib is fantastic for that, by the way and making
a steady 6 – 6.5k in the F32 with winds about 15k S average. What would a
spinnaker give me? Maybe an extra knot? Sure it’s fun but I am not going
to be clambering about the foredeck getting the damn thing down and dealing
with that great flagpole. We jibed once by mistake! That would have been
interesting with the spinnaker flying – as it was we just carried on a
slightly new tack.

As you say different strokes. By the way it isn’t the
spinnaker bag on the F32 (I haven’t even got that far with it) –
it is the dangerously restricted passage forward on the port side, keeping crew
away from the lifelines, that concerns me.

Ron
Newport RI



\

I’ve always seemed to be the head cheerleader for Gunmount
spinnakers, it is my favorite feature of my boat, but I am also
a “different boats, different long splices” kind of guy. Some may not

see it as worthwhile. I’m good with that.

I also think that sailors should steal a classification used by
bicyclists: not a casual rider, not a racer, but “performance
recreational” rider - a person who isn’t carrying a stopwatch, and
never will, but also a person who gets enjoyment from doing the sport
well and seeks improvement. Sailing-wise, I’m one of those. I enjoy
sailing well.

Yeah, there’s stuff on the foredeck that’s in the way when anchoring,
mostly just the spinnaker bag itself. I don’t think it’s even close
to being intolerable. My pole rests on the lifelines, I don’t see it
as being in the way at all. I also think a sailboat should first be a
SAILBOAT: I sail far more than I anchor, the sailing gear is what it
is, it deserves space, it makes the boat go, it is the reason I’m
there. I am more than willing to have a bit more trouble getting to
the anchor in exchange for the sheer fun and performance of the
spinnaker. The anchor takes, what, maybe an extra 30 seconds to
deploy because of the spinnaker stuff? I know that in advance and
plan my anchoring approach accordingly.

Should a cruising boat even have a spinnaker at all? Unquestionably,
YES! Sailing deeper than a beam reach is a mind-numbing bore without
a spinnaker, sailing with one is often the fastest point of sail. The
boat will often not balance well enough to self steer off the wind.
It usually will with a spinnaker, though. The helm is light and
lively and responsive when the boat is moving well. I’ve had a dozen
instances of a perfect, full power, rock steady, 6 1/2 knot runs
straight to my destination steering by windvane alone when the non-
spinnaker version of the same trip would have been a endless, slow,
rolling, hand-steering PITA. Spinnakers work.

I really don’t see how people manage without some sort of downwind
sail. Bless their hearts and perhaps I should work on my zen-like
patience, but I really think there’s no substitute for putting up
sheer square footage of sail area off the wind. So how about a
asymmetric or a spinnaker sock or twin jibs, or whatever else,
instead of a gunmount spinnaker? I’ve used all that stuff on other
boats. They are about as much work and trouble and less effective.
How about a conventional spinnaker? Forget it. You’ll never put it up
more than once.

A gunmount is a cakewalk to put up, a zero-effort sail to fly, though
it can be a bit of a handful to get down. Still, I’ve never seen any
downwind sail that comes close to “effort/effectiveness” ratio. And
yes, spinnakers, even a gunmount one, are a bit of work.

So is sex.

It’s worth it.

(By the way, a long time ago I wrote out exact, step-by-step Gunmount
spinnaker instructions for a woman I was dating. I ended up posting
those instructions and that post got re-posted several times. The
woman is way long gone but the instructions are at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freedomyachts2003/message/454
)


\

[Herman_and_Gail_Schi]

Posted by Herman and Gail Schiller (hschiller2@…>)

I get the feeling that the entire point of having
the gunmount has been missed. If your mainsail
jibes, the fact that BOTH clews are fixed to the
pole means that this sail which is pulling from
the boat’s bow is very meaningful. Freedoms under
the gunmount spinnaker do NOT round up.
Secondarily, the reason for all the lines,
spinnaker bag, and the LONGGGG pole is that the
spinnaker operations can all be done from the
cockpit (except for deploying the pole). Those
that are used to conventional spinnakers, where
only one clew is fixed, and precariously at that,
to the mast which is near the boat’s center of
rotation, this thing is a revelation. To call it
a spinnaker is misleading. It’s managed and acts
more like a squaresail. Changing the trim is a
non-grunt operation with the pole control lines.

The only thing I’ve seen that equally interesting
is another Garry Hoyt innovation where he mount a
athwartship pole and track to support a
roller-furling screacher from a reinforced bow
pulpit making that sail more effective and easier
to use. This widget proposal hauls the
screacher’s luff to windward, out from behind the mainsail’s wind shadow.
Herm

At 09:17 AM 11/1/2007, you wrote:

OK Rick,

I see your point of view, and that’s fine.
However I am not (at my time of life and
maturity so to speak ) out to get every knot
from the boat. I am however a pretty experienced
cruiser of over 40 years and frankly anchoring
safely and quickly when needed is much more
important priority to a cruiser. Every extra
knot is not a priority – that’s why I have an engine. Same thing upwind.

Yesterday we were running up the Bay, dead
downwind wing and wing – that camber jib is
fantastic for that, by the way and making a
steady 6 – 6.5k in the F32 with winds about 15k
S average. What would a spinnaker give me? Maybe
an extra knot? Sure it’s fun but I am not going
to be clambering about the foredeck getting the
damn thing down and dealing with that great
flagpole. We jibed once by mistake! That would
have been interesting with the spinnaker flying
– as it was we just carried on a slightly new tack.

As you say different strokes. By the way it
isn’t the spinnaker bag on the F32 (I haven’t
even got that far with it) – it is the
dangerously restricted passage forward on the
port side, keeping crew away from the lifelines, that concerns me.

Ron

Newport RI

I’ve always seemed to be the head cheerleader for Gunmount
spinnakers, it is my favorite feature of my boat, but I am also
a “different boats, different long splices” kind of guy. Some may not
see it as worthwhile. I’m good with that.

I also think that sailors should steal a classification used by
bicyclists: not a casual rider, not a racer, but “performance
recreational” rider - a person who isn’t carrying a stopwatch, and
never will, but also a person who gets enjoyment from doing the sport
well and seeks improvement. Sailing-wise, I’m one of those. I enjoy
sailing well.

Yeah, there’s stuff on the foredeck that’s in the way when anchoring,
mostly just the spinnaker bag itself. I don’t think it’s even close
to being intolerable. My pole rests on the lifelines, I don’t see it
as being in the way at all. I also think a sailboat should first be a
SAILBOAT: I sail far more than I anchor, the sailing gear is what it
is, it deserves space, it makes the boat go, it is the reason I’m
there. I am more than willing to have a bit more trouble getting to
the anchor in exchange for the sheer fun and performance of the
spinnaker. The anchor takes, what, maybe an extra 30 seconds to
deploy because of the spinnaker stuff? I know that in advance and
plan my anchoring approach accordingly.

Should a cruising boat even have a spinnaker at all? Unquestionably,
YES! Sailing deeper than a beam reach is a mind-numbing bore without
a spinnaker, sailing with one is often the fastest point of sail. The
boat will often not balance well enough to self steer off the wind.
It usually will with a spinnaker, though. The helm is light and
lively and responsive when the boat is moving well. I’ve had a dozen
instances of a perfect, full power, rock steady, 6 1/2 knot runs
straight to my destination steering by windvane alone when the non-
spinnaker version of the same trip would have been a endless, slow,
rolling, hand-steering PITA. Spinnakers work.

I really don’t see how people manage without some sort of downwind
sail. Bless their hearts and perhaps I should work on my zen-like
patience, but I really think there’s no substitute for putting up
sheer square footage of sail area off the wind. So how about a
asymmetric or a spinnaker sock or twin jibs, or whatever else,
instead of a gunmount spinnaker? I’ve used all that stuff on other
boats. They are about as much work and trouble and less effective.
How about a conventional spinnaker? Forget it. You’ll never put it up
more than once.

A gunmount is a cakewalk to put up, a zero-effort sail to fly, though
it can be a bit of a handful to get down. Still, I’ve never seen any
downwind sail that comes close to “effort/effectiveness” ratio. And
yes, spinnakers, even a gunmount one, are a bit of work.

So is sex.

It’s worth it.

(By the way, a long time ago I wrote out exact, step-by-step Gunmount
spinnaker instructions for a woman I was dating. I ended up posting
those instructions and that post got re-posted several times. The
woman is way long gone but the instructions are at:

<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freedomyachts2003/message/454>http://groups.yaho
o.com/group/freedomyachts2003/message/454
)

[Thomas_Wales]

Posted by Thomas Wales (twales@…>)

There are a few lines to contend with, but you can steer them out of
the way while cruising. The pole, while large, can sit on the
portside linelines pretty much out of the way. I don’t find it too
troublesome to have it rigged. The reaching and running performance
with the chute make it worthwhile.
TW



At 07:32 PM 10/31/2007, you wrote:

We’re new to a F32 with a gun mount. While I have heard people
extolling the virtue of that set up I have to say all the gear on
the foredeck seems crazy on a cruising boat. Plus the gargantuan
pole really gets in the way going forward and there are lines all
over the place. The F32 is cramped enough near the bow so how one
sets up seamanlike ready to go anchor gear with all that stuff in
the way mystifies me. Given the presumably few opportunities one has
to use the spinnaker is the whole set up worth it— F32 owners??

Ron

Newport RI 02840

From: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rick_simonds
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 6:44 PM
To: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Re: Are Freedom Yachts as fun as they look?

— In
mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup%40yahoogroups.comFreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
,
“Freeman Dodsworth”
<freemandodsworth@…> wrote:

Hi all,
I lurk around here while I look for a new boat. Perhaps a F32 or
F33
if I can find the right one. My question for you is simple: Are
the
Freedoms as much fun to sail as a sloop/cutter or ketch? Can you
get
the thrill of the drive that a big genny gives you? Are the cat
ketches and sloops simply too easy to be really exhilerating? Or
are
they as much darn fun as they look to be? Silly question. But
still…
Thanks again.

Freeman

“Fun” is subjective and everyone will find it in a different boat. I
get a lot of satisfaction that my boat essentially sails itself with
minimum fuss. I spend my time relaxing, cooking good food and
enjoying the company of friends.

I agree with another poster who said dinghy sailing is where
the “fun” of sailing is. I’d add that, sailing exhilaration-wise, the
first time you really get a perfect day and you get a sailboard up on
a full blast plane, just the last foot of the tail touching the
water, your butt about 6" off the water, the whole board just
skipping off the tops of the waves, even finally getting overpowered
and physically flung about 20 feet by the sail as you and the whole
board crash and burn, …the feel of raw power, acceleration and
speed is laugh-out-loud overwhelming. THAT’S fun. “Sit-down”
sailing, especially bigger boat sit-down sailing, is more of an inner
fun.

Still, I will add what I think is a universal Freedom “Nothin’-But-
Fun” statement:

Gunmount spinnakers are FUN: A spinnaker that you are actually
willing to fly is worth 1000 spinnakers that stay forever in the bag.
Even singlehanded, as soon as I’m a bit off the wind mine goes up and
the boat leaps to life and steers with the touch of a finger on the
wheel. It never gets old. I get a dopey grin every time.

Rick
Tallahassee

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[Al_Lorman1]

Posted by Al Lorman (ajl@…>)


Lance:

When
you fly your gennaker, do you rig running backstays?

Al
F30
Ab Initio

From:
FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of lance_ryley
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 8:15 AM
To: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Re: Gun Mount Spinnakers

\

Rick,
I took the liberty of converting your excellent post into a pdf. The
file is in the “Gunmount Spinnaker” folder.

I have a question about the hoist - Herm said you hoist the sail with
the clews all the way in and the pole already squared. do you run
into a problem with the sail being full and not being able to get the
halyard all the way up, or is that what the self-tailing winch is
for? On a conventional spin, or even an A-sail, you don’t trim the
clew until the halyard’s made.

As far as spinnakers on a cruising boat, I have to agree. cruising
sailors tend to run their motors in two conditions - upwind and
downwind. While Glory doesn’t have a gunmount (I could see how
cluttered the foredeck would be with two cruising anchors, gunmount
gear AND a camberspar jib!), it does have a North Gennaker with a
sock. The first time we used it was on the test sail with the
previous owners, and we went from 5.5 kts with just the main up to
8.5 with the Gennaker. The second time we flew it was from Boothbay
out and around Monhegan, and it provided enough power on a very light-
air day to keep up with many of the New York Yacht Club boats during
their race.There’s definitely some technique to flying an A-sail, and
we don’t get true downwind performance, but it’s pretty easy to fly,
easy to jibe, and easy to depower when the winds pick up suddenly.
The advantages of an A-sail or a gunmount spinnaker (or a mizzen
spinnaker for the cat-ketch guys) seem pretty clear. They’re a bit
more work, and you definitely need to practice, but they can take a
ho-hum day and turn it into a very satisfying passage.

Lance
Glory


\

[rick_simonds1]

Posted by rick_simonds (rick_simonds@…>)

I have a question about the hoist - Herm said you hoist the sail
with
the clews all the way in and the pole already squared. do you run
into a problem with the sail being full and not being able to get
the
halyard all the way up, or is that what the self-tailing winch is
for? On a conventional spin, or even an A-sail, you don’t trim the
clew until the halyard’s made.

I generally set my spinnaker flying - the pole and sail square to the
wind. I seem to recall reading an instruction from Garry Hoyt that
said to point the pole into the wind, raise the sail and then square
the pole- set the sail luffing then square the pole to fill it. I’ve
done that and it works fine, and I can do it by hand, I just found it
about as easy the other way. I don’t like the luffing and flapping
and once it’s full I’d normally be spending a few moments tweaking
and winching anyway.

The sail will not even begin fill until the “bullseye” (the
reinforcing patch in the center of the sail for the tripline) is out
of the bag. There’s still maybe 15 feet to go when it comes out so,
at most, I’d have to winch the last 15 feet. In practice if I pull
the halyard up as fast as I can I often make it all the way up
before it opens, especially in lighter wind. I rarely end up winching
more than the last 3 to 5 feet or so.

Either way works.

Rick

[Thomas_Wales]

Posted by Thomas Wales (twales@…>)

Gentlemen,
I raise my spinnaker with the pole square to the wind,
although I do keep a bit of slack in the clew lines. I never need to
use the winch on the halyard.
TW
F32 Anoush Koon




At 09:03 PM 11/1/2007, you wrote:

I have a question about the hoist - Herm said you hoist the sail
with
the clews all the way in and the pole already squared. do you run
into a problem with the sail being full and not being able to get
the
halyard all the way up, or is that what the self-tailing winch is
for? On a conventional spin, or even an A-sail, you don’t trim the
clew until the halyard’s made.

I generally set my spinnaker flying - the pole and sail square to the
wind. I seem to recall reading an instruction from Garry Hoyt that
said to point the pole into the wind, raise the sail and then square
the pole- set the sail luffing then square the pole to fill it. I’ve
done that and it works fine, and I can do it by hand, I just found it
about as easy the other way. I don’t like the luffing and flapping
and once it’s full I’d normally be spending a few moments tweaking
and winching anyway.

The sail will not even begin fill until the “bullseye” (the
reinforcing patch in the center of the sail for the tripline) is out
of the bag. There’s still maybe 15 feet to go when it comes out so,
at most, I’d have to winch the last 15 feet. In practice if I pull
the halyard up as fast as I can I often make it all the way up
before it opens, especially in lighter wind. I rarely end up winching
more than the last 3 to 5 feet or so.

Either way works.

Rick

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11/2/2007 11:04 AM



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11:04 AM

[lance_ryley]

Posted by lance_ryley (lance_ryley@…>)

Al,
yes, the previous owners fitted the boat with running backs for a
couple reasons. The first is that they had a custom bowsprit fitted,
and the jibstay goes to the end of that, so the jib is bigger than a
standard 45 jib. Paul Dennis felt that with the extra size, plus the
addition of a gennaker, the rig could use the running backs. There are
two positions for the backs - forward, for use while under jib, and a
back position where the running backs are tacked to the same padeye as
the turning blocks for the gennaker. This gives a better leverage angle
when running with that big sail.

The running backs are high-tech line attached to the mast at around the
same height as the forestay. They come to a 4:1 lewmar block and tackle
with integrated cleat.

Lance

— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “Al Lorman” <ajl@…> wrote:

Lance:

When you fly your gennaker, do you rig running backstays?

Al

F30 Ab Initio

[Al_Lorman1]

Posted by Al Lorman (ajl@…>)


Thanks,
Lance. I feared as much. I’ve considered an asymmetrical sail but
didn’t wasn’t to deal with installed running backstays.

Al

From: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of lance_ryley
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 3:06 PM
To: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Re: Gun Mount Spinnakers

\

Al,
yes, the previous owners fitted the boat with running backs for a
couple reasons. The first is that they had a custom bowsprit fitted,
and the jibstay goes to the end of that, so the jib is bigger than a
standard 45 jib. Paul Dennis felt that with the extra size, plus the
addition of a gennaker, the rig could use the running backs. There are
two positions for the backs - forward, for use while under jib, and a
back position where the running backs are tacked to the same padeye as
the turning blocks for the gennaker. This gives a better leverage angle
when running with that big sail.

The running backs are high-tech line attached to the mast at around the
same height as the forestay. They come to a 4:1 lewmar block and tackle
with integrated cleat.

Lance

— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com,
“Al Lorman” <ajl@…> wrote:

Lance:

When you fly your gennaker, do you rig running backstays?

Al

F30 Ab Initio


\