Headliner Material & Adhesive

I’m in the process of re-doing the headliner for my Freedom 40/40. We’ve had it in the Caribbean years, and I think that the heat really did a number on the foam backed headliner material. It was sagging, so I decided to replace it while I had the boat near home.

I decided to utilize NaugaSoft (http://www.sailrite.com/Categories/Nauga-Soft-Vinyl-Fabric), which is a fabric backed vinyl (Naugahyde) product. I’ve been trying to decide what adhesive to use and was thinking of using 3M’s Fastbond 30NF water based contact adhesive (http://www.shop3m.com/62427475306.html) to keep down the VOCs since I’ll be doing this inside during the winter. I have an HVLP sprayer which, based upon the literature, should be able to spray it.

Does anyone have any experience using a water based contact adhesive for this application?

– Geoff

Hey Geoff,

We are also replacing some headliner in some areas of Marquesa. I’ve not used that adhesive but I have sprayed stuff in closed spaces before and I was not happy with the results. Check the MSDS carefully before you get going. Brush or spreader might be a better approach.

George

The reason that I’m going with a water based adhesive to so that I don’t fume myself to death. There are basically no VOCs in the water based adhesive. What issues did you have?

– Geoff

I used a new water based version of “contact cement” to redo my liners on marine plywood couple of years ago. Desaster, took ages to dry on the back of the vinyl material. I finally had to go back to traditionnal contact cement (and lots of ventilation) to settle the case.
BTW, Michel uses a fantastic product for lining replacement, named Sintra here in North America
http://www.alcancompositesusa.com/prod_sintra.html
Much easier to work with than plywood/vinyl

My issues were over-spray and fumes. I guess the HVLP gun might mitigate that? Is the glue still water soluable when it’s cured? I’d be worried about condensation and just plain high humidity loosening it up. I will probably use plain old rubber cement or some form there of. Or the 3m spray can stuff which I’ve found mostly easy to control. Of course I might wait and see how your idea goes! I’d love another excuse to buy a HVLP setup. Is your’s self contained or does it rely on a compressor?

George

Inside during winter? Did you mean “inside the boat” or “inside (as in not-outdoors)”?

Aren’t you planning on adhesing this material to either the original or replacement “plywood door skin” material to which the original headliner was attached?

In my F-40 Aft Cockpit, the foam rubber backed “naugahyde” material was adhesed to these panels which were held in place by the teak battens which make up the seams between them.

“Inside the boat” would be a very annoying place to do any of this work. Adequate ventilation in a shop during this process could be provided by a box fan and some (many) opened doors & windows. A respirator might still be a good idea. You can get quite “drunk” from the fumes from solvent-based contact cements.

Understanding that the properties of certain adhesives are such that, although water-soluble when uncured, they become more resistant to moisture attack when cured, why would you risk failure in an inherently humid & damp installation by using an adhesive which is soluble in water?

As an alternative, google up “foamed pvc sheets”. This is a product designed for outdoor advertising panels (principally) which has been used by others to replace both the “door skin” panels and the finished surface. I plan to use it on mine in the near future.

I have good experience with foamed PVC sheets. No glue or fumes involved. It’s a slick material however, so if you like the soft headliner-type, you won’t like it. I like it better than the soft headliner for severaL reasons:

  • no glue, no fume, no mess; you use a few staples to keep it in place and then put the battens on;
  • easy to keep clean; no creases that collect mildew;
  • easy to cut or saw;
  • good light reflection without giving the appearance that you live in a kitchen cupboard.
    new headliner.jpg
    Foam pvc sheets.jpg

I note (from your Flickr page) that you recommend the 4 mm thickness of the foamed pvc sheets.

Michel has posted many more photos of this project (and other projects) at Flickr…the link is

http://www.flickr.com/photos/alabama_queen

(also posted by Geoff in the Cruising Section of the bb)

I’m very seriously considering some fiberglass panels that are sold at Home Depot. They are very inexpensive, waterproof light and bright. The headliner in the forward cabin is fine. The headliner in our v-birth has been awol since we purchased the boat and I’ll have to replace the headliner in the aft cabin as it’s deteriorating. I’m probably going to make up panels that are trimmed with teak glued right to the panel and then use industrial velcro to put them up. I can pull them down to clean behind them this way and avoid the whole trapped mold issues, get to wiring, etc…

George

George

I like your idea of having the whole overhead easily removable (except that you’ll have problems doing this around the trim for the hatch covers and where the grab rails are attached, as well as any place where there are things attached to the bottom of the overhead that penetrate it…like lights and the little chains & hooks that hold up the opened portlights). The thought of (repeatedly) dealing with all those cut edges of the fiberglass sheets is enough to dissuade me from considering using them. Beyond that, it will reflect (rather than absorb) noises inside the boat. I think I’ll stick with the foamed pvc idea myself, and line the bottom of the overhead with “Reflectix” (foil coated bubble wrap) for insulation while I have the whole thing ripped apart.

I’d forget the industrial velcro if I were you. I don’t think you’ll be happy with the life of the adhesive on either the bottom of the overhead or the fiberglass panels. Heat, moisture, and the constant stress of gravity will have the whole thing down in your lap at some point.

What you want is the 3M Marine Reclosable Attachment System (Part 051135-06539) available at your favorite big-box marine stores and online here and there.

It’s way more expensive than the Industrial Velcro, but the glue is amazing. It uses little interlocking plastic protrusions on both pieces, rather than fuzz on one or the other.

You won’t need an entire strip at each attachment point. Stick two pieces together, cut them (together) into 1" x 1" squares (you’ll get 6 out of each package of four strips…about six and a half bucks per package at Jamestown Distributors). Maybe you can find a better bulk price.

Search NexTag for sources of larger quantities, cuz you can buy it in 150’ lengths if you want.

It may seem like a “Duh” kind of thing, but to install it, put the two halves together, peel the adhesive off of one side, stick it on either the overhead or the panel, then peel the adhesive off the other piece and press the panel to the overhead (like you would if you were using contact cement). Rubbing hard over the attachment points will seal the glue to the surfaces, but you may want to prop it up with your extendable boat hook with something to spread the pressure over the panel while the glue sets up a while.

I have no doubt that, with enough of this stuff, you could stick a loaded 48 quart Igloo cooler on the overhead if you wanted. I (over) used this stuff to attach a power strip to the (wooden) back side of an aquarium. When I later removed it to replace the aquarium, it was all I could do to get the piece off of the back of the power strip, and I’m sure that the bond to the wood was stronger than the strength of the wood fibers beneath.

If you use this ingenious velcro-like system, make sure you allow for the extra thickness it adds to the headliner. And you might end up with problematic connections around the hatch trim and at the bulkheads because of the greater width. I used a simple staple gun to attach the headliner temporarily. Staples can be removed with a small screwdriver if I have to remove the board. Trim battens cover the staples and seams. Of course you can’t use this approach if you have trimless headliners.
You might perhaps want to check Steve Dashew’s Sailing Encyclopedia about headliner systems. He describes several attachment systems.
Here you see the pieces of foamed pvc fastened temporarily with staples. As you see, you don’t need a whole lot of staples, maybe 6 or 8 per sheet.
697981065_2a9ae7beb5.jpg

I’m probably going to come up with an amalgamated plan base on this thread… heh heh One I completely agree on is that the glue on the industrial velcro is the weak link. I always glue it with west system. The west system does not interact poorly with the glue that’s already on there and I get a very strong bond that has longevity. The trim around our hatches is solid teak that screwed up. I wouldn’t change that no matter the headliner so that trim would have to come down in any case. I’m really starting to lean towards Michel’s more simple staples… how often am I really going to want to take down the headliner anyway?

George

Michael
the foamed PVC sheets that you used… are they like:

http://www.rplastics.com/komatex.html

Bob

refit2.jpg
We recently replaced most of the lining of Castaway, using hand spread solvent based contact adhesive on hard surfaces, and a spray can version of the same product on foam backed vinyl. We considered the risk associated with the VOC’s and after checking the data sheets, decided that using good quality passive respirators and short duration work schedules would cause no permanent harm, and minimal short term effect. Ventilation was a breeze (windiest place in the UK), since the boat was outdoors, and the low ambient temperatures meant a slow rate of VOC evaporation. We are both occupational health professionals, so this was not just a ‘cross your fingers and hope for the best’ assessment.

The real difficulties of the job revolved around two adults wearing PPE and head torches handling large, tacky sheets of vinyl in the forepeak, without becoming bonded to the boat. Even more difficult was cleaning off all the old adhesive and foam debris before starting with the new stuff; the dust was non-toxic so long as the sanders and grinder didn’t overheat the foam and polyester resin, but there were huge clouds of it despite using a vacuum extractor on the sanders. The clean-up took a week.

I suspect that the decreased risk of using water based adhesive is actually very slight, if you follow the precautions above, and space out the interior work. We had to fit it in around other projects (like earning a living), so the short exposures were forced on us. If you are on a tighter schedule, then some temporary mechanical ventilation through a port light or hatch should keep the VOC levels down to a safe limit, and a good quality mask rated for organic fumes will deal with the rest. I think you will find it very hard to apply adequate quantities of adhesive using a spray gun, even of the HVLP type, without coating too much of the surroundings as well, especially when doing the insides of lockers, etc.

Good luck, anyway,

Gerald
refit1.jpg

I’m getting ready to attach my Naugahyde headliner material to the 1/8" plywood forms, and was wondering the best way to do it. I was thinking about doing the following:

  • spay the Naugahyde and plywood in a separate location
  • pin the Naugahyde to a 4x8’ sheet of regular plywood to get it taut and wrinkle free
  • place some separator strips on the Naugahyde
  • position the plywood above it
  • remove the separator strips
  • roll it out

I was thinking of doing it this was because the plywood is more rigid and it would be easier to keep it away from the Naugahyde than the reverse. Any suggestions?

– Geoff (where we’ve got 10"+ of fresh snow on the ground and it’s snowing to beat the band)

Why go for the old fashioned method of fabric on plywood? It’s twice the amount of work compared to one piece headliner like foamed PVC. And plywood will give you trouble with leaks and moisture.

Yes Bob, I recall the brand name Sintra as one being used in the USA for this stuff. Sorry for the delayed reply; I must have missed your question.

Why go for the old fashioned method of fabric on plywood? It’s twice the amount of work compared to one piece headliner like foamed PVC. And plywood will give you trouble with leaks and moisture.


  1. Because the Komatex sheets only come in size up to 2x4’ and many of the existing panels are munch larger than that. I don’t want more seams.
  2. Most of the existing plywood sheets were in fine condition and there’s no reason to remake them.
  3. Finally, and probably most importantly, due to fact that it was going to be a massive job to remove some of the existing material, I left in in place the the Naugahyde matches it very closely.

– Geoff

I just wanted to provide an update on this project. I’m in the process of installing the recovered panels and am quite happy with the results. However, I can tell you that there are reasons for using a foam backed headliner material. Without foam, you see every imperfection in the plywood form. I started to obsess over this, but then realized that I won’t be staring at the headliner when I’m in the boat in the same manner that I was doing as I was manufacturing them.

The procedure that I outlined a few posts earlier worked well. I found that using a staple gun to attach the Naugahyde to the plywood “table” worked best as it allowed me to stretch the fabric much more than I can do using push pins.

I was very happy with the 3M water based FastBond adhesive. I sprayed it using an HVLP sprayer and a 2 MM tip, and it worked great. Absolutely no VOHCs, which was important due to the enclosed space where I was spraying.

I’ll post pictures when I’m done.

– Geoff

Pictures??? Now I’m stuck doing the headliner thing. Any new ideas out there???

Norm
SV Nikos
F36