help with dodger design

Archives
1

Posted by mbb05055 (mary.bigelow@…>)

My husband Russell and I sail F30 “Corydora” on the coast of Maine and
more recently in the Bay of Fundy. For years we have resisted getting
a dodger as we prize visibility (lobster pot bouys and fog!) But we
have been very cold and wind blow too many times and are getting ready
to do the deed. Because this is going to involve some custom
stainless steel fabrication we want to get this as right as we
possibly can. (I plan do the canvas work as I used to do upholstery
professionally and have a related skill set and a big honking
industrial Singer)

Dodgers must be better than I think they are because everyone has
them, even up here. Ok, so I am going to grit my teeth and do this!

And this is my check list. Please critique and amend freely!

-Must be sturdy
-Not interfere with winches, which means it must be high enough I can
crank the winches while standing wedged against companionway. (I can’t
crank sitting down)
-Allow easy acccess to deck with good hand holds
-Some degree of wrap around to the side along the combing is nice for
protection while still maintaining deck access
-Boom must not chafe or crush it
-Zip down windows are good
-Side windows are good
-Sunbrella fabric is good
-Neutral medium to light colored fabrics are good for northern climate
-It is likely to eventually tie in with bimini or awning so make
provision for that
-The forward edge needs to deflect water where it joins deck.
-Common Sense fasteners are good
-Most dodgers are basically two bows. Most are installed on aft cabin roof

One interesting alternative installation in Al Kusinitz’s on his F-33
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freedomyachts2003/message/1826) tho’ I
can’t picture the advantage for a F30. Al, are you out there?


Is there a good way to make a dodger particularly easy to get up and
down? I cannot imagine enjoying looking through that mess of cloudy
plastic unless forced to by the weather and my fading energy levels.

Is a particularly fine glazing material out here that I don’t know
about?

By the way, we had a very fine stainless steel arch build for Corydora
to support radar, davits and bimini. The radome was up all season.
Davits, bimini (and dodger) are this winter’s projects. The arch, even
mostly bare, has been very nice to grab and dangle on and hang things
on. Will post some photos some day…

Can’t thank you all enough

Mary

F30 Corydora
Belfast ME

2

Posted by Lola Jackson (lolaltd@…>)
I am sending photos of mine w/o plastic windows on sides on my F30…I would like complete windows though.I have never sent pictures here…so do I just do attach?here goes;By the way they make a stiff window now too…Lola F30— On Fri, 10/3/08, mbb05055 <mary.bigelow@…> wrote:From: mbb05055 <mary.bigelow@…>Subject: [FreedomOwnersGroup] help with dodger designTo: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.comDate: Friday, October 3, 2008, 12:43 AM

My husband Russell and I sail F30 “Corydora” on the coast of Maine and
more recently in the Bay of Fundy. For years we have resisted getting
a dodger as we prize visibility (lobster pot bouys and fog!) But we
have been very cold and wind blow too many times and are getting ready
to do the deed. Because this is going to involve some custom
stainless steel fabrication we want to get this as right as we
possibly can. (I plan do the canvas work as I used to do upholstery
professionally and have a related skill set and a big honking
industrial Singer)

Dodgers must be better than I think they are because everyone has
them, even up here. Ok, so I am going to grit my teeth and do this!

And this is my check list. Please critique and amend freely!

-Must be sturdy
-Not interfere with winches, which means it must be high enough I can
crank the winches while standing wedged against companionway. (I can’t
crank sitting down)
-Allow easy acccess to deck with good hand holds
-Some degree of wrap around to the side along the combing is nice for
protection while still maintaining deck access
-Boom must not chafe or crush it
-Zip down windows are good
-Side windows are good
-Sunbrella fabric is good
-Neutral medium to light colored fabrics are good for northern climate
-It is likely to eventually tie in with bimini or awning so make
provision for that
-The forward edge needs to deflect water where it joins deck.
-Common Sense fasteners are good
-Most dodgers are basically two bows. Most are installed on aft cabin roof

One interesting alternative installation in Al Kusinitz’s on his F-33
(http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/freedomyac hts2003/message/ 1826) tho’ I
can’t picture the advantage for a F30. Al, are you out there?

Is there a good way to make a dodger particularly easy to get up and
down? I cannot imagine enjoying looking through that mess of cloudy
plastic unless forced to by the weather and my fading energy levels.

Is a particularly fine glazing material out here that I don’t know
about?

By the way, we had a very fine stainless steel arch build for Corydora
to support radar, davits and bimini. The radome was up all season.
Davits, bimini (and dodger) are this winter’s projects. The arch, even
mostly bare, has been very nice to grab and dangle on and hang things
on. Will post some photos some day…

Can’t thank you all enough

Mary

F30 Corydora
Belfast ME




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3

Posted by Sward (swardfullsail@…>)
I have just had new canvas made for my F32. A couple of things that were of importance to me were: to be sure the dodger was as high as it could be-the old one made it difficult to get under to go down the companionway----I also wanted it to be self supporting-no webbing to clip aft. I disliked having the webbing and the bimini straps crossing each other making it difficult getting out or going forward. The new framing has cross bars supporting the frame and I’m very happy with that. Also he put hand bars on the side of the dodger which I am happy about since I always use the front of the dodger to hold on to to get down from the deck when putting the sails up or taking them down. I did get the heavier glass-I found it difficult to see out of the strataglass. Seeing through is pretty important. It was all very
costly, however, it was all important for my useage, and hopefully, will be good for a long time.
“Life is a Reach, then you Jibe”

SWARD— On Fri, 10/3/08, William A Cormack <wacormack@…> wrote:
From: William A Cormack <wacormack@…>Subject: RE: SPAM-LOW: [FreedomOwnersGroup] help with dodger designTo: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.comDate: Friday, October 3, 2008, 8:23 AM




Take a look at Sailrite http://www.sailrite .com/ They have an instructional book that should make this an easy job when combined with your skill set and “honkin Singer”. They have the “glass” too.

Bill



From: FreedomOwnersGroup@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:FreedomOwne rsGroup@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of mbb05055Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 1:15 AMTo: FreedomOwnersGroup@ yahoogroups. comSubject: SPAM-LOW: [FreedomOwnersGroup ] help with dodger design




My husband Russell and I sail F30 “Corydora” on the coast of Maine andmore recently in the Bay of Fundy. For years we have resisted gettinga dodger as we prize visibility (lobster pot bouys and fog!) But wehave been very cold and wind blow too many times and are getting readyto do the deed. Because this is going to involve some customstainless steel fabrication we want to get this as right as wepossibly can. (I plan do the canvas work as I used to do upholsteryprofessionally and have a related skill set and a big honkingindustrial Singer) Dodgers must be better than I think they are because everyone hasthem, even up here. Ok, so I am going to grit my teeth and do this!And this is my check list. Please critique and amend freely!-Must be sturdy-Not interfere with winches, which means it must be high enough I cancrank the winches while standing wedged against companionway. (I
can’tcrank sitting down)-Allow easy acccess to deck with good hand holds-Some degree of wrap around to the side along the combing is nice forprotection while still maintaining deck access-Boom must not chafe or crush it-Zip down windows are good-Side windows are good-Sunbrella fabric is good-Neutral medium to light colored fabrics are good for northern climate-It is likely to eventually tie in with bimini or awning so makeprovision for that-The forward edge needs to deflect water where it joins deck.-Common Sense fasteners are good-Most dodgers are basically two bows. Most are installed on aft cabin roofOne interesting alternative installation in Al Kusinitz’s on his F-33 (http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/freedomyac hts2003/message/ 1826) tho’ Ican’t picture the advantage for a F30.
Al, are you out there?Is there a good way to make a dodger particularly easy to get up anddown? I cannot imagine enjoying looking through that mess of cloudyplastic unless forced to by the weather and my fading energy levels.Is a particularly fine glazing material out here that I don’t knowabout? By the way, we had a very fine stainless steel arch build for Corydorato support radar, davits and bimini. The radome was up all season. Davits, bimini (and dodger) are this winter’s projects. The arch, evenmostly bare, has been very nice to grab and dangle on and hang thingson. Will post some photos some day…Can’t thank you all enoughMaryF30 CorydoraBelfast ME

4

Posted by Bob (rweeks6508@…>)
Lola You look different from what I have imaged!! {:>)BobOn Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 6:58 AM, Lola Jackson wrote:I am sending photos of mine w/o plastic windows on sides on my F30…I would like complete windows though. I have never sent pictures here…so do I just do attach? here goes; By the way they make a stiff window now too… Lola F30 — On Fri, 10/3/08, mbb05055 <mary.bigelow@ hotmail.com> wrote: From: mbb05055 <mary.bigelow@ hotmail.com> Subject: [FreedomOwnersGroup ] help with dodger design To: FreedomOwnersGroup@ yahoogroups. com Date: Friday, October 3, 2008, 12:43 AM My husband Russell and I sail F30 “Corydora” on the coast of Maine and more recently in the Bay of Fundy. For years we have resisted getting a dodger as we prize visibility (lobster pot bouys and fog!) But we have been very cold and wind blow too many times and are getting ready to do the deed. Because this is going to involve some custom stainless steel fabrication we want to get this as right as we possibly can. (I plan do the canvas work as I used to do upholstery professionally and have a related skill set and a big honking industrial Singer) Dodgers must be better than I think they are because everyone has them, even up here. Ok, so I am going to grit my teeth and do this! And this is my check list. Please critique and amend freely! -Must be sturdy -Not interfere with winches, which means it must be high enough I can crank the winches while standing wedged against companionway. (I can’t crank sitting down) -Allow easy acccess to deck with good hand holds -Some degree of wrap around to the side along the combing is nice for protection while still maintaining deck access -Boom must not chafe or crush it -Zip down windows are good -Side windows are good -Sunbrella fabric is good -Neutral medium to light colored fabrics are good for northern climate -It is likely to eventually tie in with bimini or awning so make provision for that -The forward edge needs to deflect water where it joins deck. -Common Sense fasteners are good -Most dodgers are basically two bows. Most are installed on aft cabin roof One interesting alternative installation in Al Kusinitz’s on his F-33 ( http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/freedomyac hts2003/message/ 1826) tho’ I can’t picture the advantage for a F30. Al, are you out there? Is there a good way to make a dodger particularly easy to get up and down? I cannot imagine enjoying looking through that mess of cloudy plastic unless forced to by the weather and my fading energy levels. Is a particularly fine glazing material out here that I don’t know about? By the way, we had a very fine stainless steel arch build for Corydora to support radar, davits and bimini. The radome was up all season. Davits, bimini (and dodger) are this winter’s projects. The arch, even mostly bare, has been very nice to grab and dangle on and hang things on. Will post some photos some day… Can’t thank you all enough Mary F30 Corydora Belfast ME

5

Posted by Bob (rweeks6508@…>)
I sideview of your bimini and dodger would be nice!BobOn Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 6:58 AM, Lola Jackson wrote:I am sending photos of mine w/o plastic windows on sides on my F30…I would like complete windows though. I have never sent pictures here…so do I just do attach? here goes; By the way they make a stiff window now too… Lola F30 — On Fri, 10/3/08, mbb05055 <mary.bigelow@ hotmail.com> wrote: From: mbb05055 <mary.bigelow@ hotmail.com> Subject: [FreedomOwnersGroup ] help with dodger design To: FreedomOwnersGroup@ yahoogroups. com Date: Friday, October 3, 2008, 12:43 AM My husband Russell and I sail F30 “Corydora” on the coast of Maine and more recently in the Bay of Fundy. For years we have resisted getting a dodger as we prize visibility (lobster pot bouys and fog!) But we have been very cold and wind blow too many times and are getting ready to do the deed. Because this is going to involve some custom stainless steel fabrication we want to get this as right as we possibly can. (I plan do the canvas work as I used to do upholstery professionally and have a related skill set and a big honking industrial Singer) Dodgers must be better than I think they are because everyone has them, even up here. Ok, so I am going to grit my teeth and do this! And this is my check list. Please critique and amend freely! -Must be sturdy -Not interfere with winches, which means it must be high enough I can crank the winches while standing wedged against companionway. (I can’t crank sitting down) -Allow easy acccess to deck with good hand holds -Some degree of wrap around to the side along the combing is nice for protection while still maintaining deck access -Boom must not chafe or crush it -Zip down windows are good -Side windows are good -Sunbrella fabric is good -Neutral medium to light colored fabrics are good for northern climate -It is likely to eventually tie in with bimini or awning so make provision for that -The forward edge needs to deflect water where it joins deck. -Common Sense fasteners are good -Most dodgers are basically two bows. Most are installed on aft cabin roof One interesting alternative installation in Al Kusinitz’s on his F-33 ( http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/freedomyac hts2003/message/ 1826) tho’ I can’t picture the advantage for a F30. Al, are you out there? Is there a good way to make a dodger particularly easy to get up and down? I cannot imagine enjoying looking through that mess of cloudy plastic unless forced to by the weather and my fading energy levels. Is a particularly fine glazing material out here that I don’t know about? By the way, we had a very fine stainless steel arch build for Corydora to support radar, davits and bimini. The radome was up all season. Davits, bimini (and dodger) are this winter’s projects. The arch, even mostly bare, has been very nice to grab and dangle on and hang things on. Will post some photos some day… Can’t thank you all enough Mary F30 Corydora Belfast ME

6

Posted by phildowneyuk (phildowneyuk@…>)

hi i build dodgers in the uk here are my top tips;
1 use a track and boltrope if possible for the front attatchment to
deck this is so much easier to make the cover to than individual
fixings and is more watertight
2 use 1" tube for hoods over 4ft wide
3 use cast stainless tube ends
4 make the back bar slightly longer than the front and hinge the
front
bar off this
5 make sure the roof slopes slightly forwards and standing at the
wheel
that the bars line up like a transit so the roof dosent obstruct
visibility
6take great care over accuracy and mark the locations of fasteners on
the pattern and then transfer them to the cloth to aid lining it up
when fitting
7 if the window isnt going to be folded strataglass is exelent window
8 where wings attatch to roof put a curve in them to stop them point
loading and ripping
9 use zips on pockets so you dont have to diss assemble frame
10 fit a grab bar on the back bar leathered if possible if so ignore 8
11put a gentle athwartships curve in the bars over the roof about 1
inch per foot of width as flat roofs puddle
12 when folded down the bars should lay on top of the track and
eachother and not obstruct hatches etc (the one on my boat goes
straight accross the middle of the companionway when folded down at
the
moment i hasten to add i havent had her long enough to have got round
to building a new one …another job for the winter )
13 have a good look around at other peoples hoods and see how theyre
constructed and what works note; seams are supposed to be level with
the centrelines of the bars!

have fun and lots of patience !
phil downey f33 kusi uk
ps my work site is sanders sails: http://www.sanders-
sails.co.uk/covers/index.html

7

Posted by Skipper Skip (skipperf33@…>)
Phil,

Thanks for the tips on dodger design and construction:)

I am taking my F33 CK to the tropics again and ultimately to Europe and your neck of the woods. I have a concern about using the Track and Bolt Rope approach to fasten my yet to be built dodger to the house. I like the idea that this would be water and wind tight and probably way stronger than using snap fasteners.

My concern is the constantly wet canvas and rope in that track! I can see where the constant dripping of due (fresh water) into the track might encourage the growth of fungus or rot.

As I am sure you deal with this problem all the time, given your local, I would be most interesed in your point of view on this?

Thanks for the help:)

Skip
F33 CK currently in Southern California— On Tue, 10/7/08, phildowneyuk <phildowneyuk@…> wrote:
From: phildowneyuk <phildowneyuk@…>Subject: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Re: help with dodger designTo: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.comDate: Tuesday, October 7, 2008, 5:36 PM


hi i build dodgers in the uk here are my top tips;1 use a track and boltrope if possible for the front attatchment to deck this is so much easier to make the cover to than individual fixings and is more watertight2 use 1" tube for hoods over 4ft wide3 use cast stainless tube ends4 make the back bar slightly longer than the front and hinge the front bar off this5 make sure the roof slopes slightly forwards and standing at the wheel that the bars line up like a transit so the roof dosent obstruct visibility6take great care over accuracy and mark the locations of fasteners on the pattern and then transfer them to the cloth to aid lining it up when fitting7 if the window isnt going to be folded strataglass is exelent window 8 where wings attatch to roof put a curve in them to stop them point loading and ripping9 use zips on pockets so you dont have to diss assemble frame10
fit a grab bar on the back bar leathered if possible if so ignore 811put a gentle athwartships curve in the bars over the roof about 1 inch per foot of width as flat roofs puddle12 when folded down the bars should lay on top of the track and eachother and not obstruct hatches etc (the one on my boat goes straight accross the middle of the companionway when folded down at the moment i hasten to add i havent had her long enough to have got round to building a new one …another job for the winter )13 have a good look around at other peoples hoods and see how theyre constructed and what works note; seams are supposed to be level with the centrelines of the bars!have fun and lots of patience !phil downey f33 kusi ukps my work site is sanders sails: http://www.sanders-sails.co.uk/ covers/index.
html

8

Posted by mbb05055 (mary.bigelow@…>)

Excellent things people are contributing here. Thank you everybody!

Phil, we anticipate folding our dodger often as visibility is a huge
issue (myriad lobster pot bouys and their toggles). Thinking of item #
4, say you call the shorter bar that is mounted on a hinge the
daughter, and the longer bar the mother. If the mother bar slants back
doesn’t the daughter bar make the folded dodger somewhat more bulky
and clumsy because it cannot rest flat; it has to rest on the
daughter? And #7, it sound like strataglass is not recomended if the
dodger is going to be folded. Maybe other types of glazing are more
tolerant? I was thinking of putting some extra zips in the windows
that could be undone at folding time to minimize the creasing when
folding. Does that sound reasonable/ For us, waterproofness is not a
huge issue, its the wind we need to deflect. I suppose zips on the
pockets themselves might help reduce strain on windows when folding too.
Today is Saturday. Stainless steel guy is coming on Tuesday. Gotta
get my act together1

Mary
F-30 Corydora
Belfast Maine

9

Posted by Herman and Gail Schiller (hschiller2@…>)

Fungus yes, rot no if you are using synthetic fabrics and rope.
Around here (coastal NC) we grow green algae/fungus on lines that are
in the shade. Herm

At 07:59 AM 10/11/2008, you wrote:

Phil,

Thanks for the tips on dodger design and construction:)

I am taking my F33 CK to the tropics again and ultimately to Europe
and your neck of the woods. I have a concern about using the Track
and Bolt Rope approach to fasten my yet to be built dodger to the
house. I like the idea that this would be water and wind tight and
probably way stronger than using snap fasteners.

My concern is the constantly wet canvas and rope in that track! I
can see where the constant dripping of due (fresh water) into the
track might encourage the growth of fungus or rot.

As I am sure you deal with this problem all the time, given your
local, I would be most interesed in your point of view on this?

Thanks for the help:)

Skip
F33 CK currently in Southern California

— On Tue, 10/7/08, phildowneyuk <phildowneyuk@…> wrote:
From: phildowneyuk <phildowneyuk@…>
Subject: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Re: help with dodger design
To: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, October 7, 2008, 5:36 PM

hi i build dodgers in the uk here are my top tips;
1 use a track and boltrope if possible for the front attatchment to
deck this is so much easier to make the cover to than individual
fixings and is more watertight
2 use 1" tube for hoods over 4ft wide
3 use cast stainless tube ends
4 make the back bar slightly longer than the front and hinge the
front
bar off this
5 make sure the roof slopes slightly forwards and standing at the
wheel
that the bars line up like a transit so the roof dosent obstruct
visibility
6take great care over accuracy and mark the locations of fasteners on
the pattern and then transfer them to the cloth to aid lining it up
when fitting
7 if the window isnt going to be folded strataglass is exelent window
8 where wings attatch to roof put a curve in them to stop them point
loading and ripping
9 use zips on pockets so you dont have to diss assemble frame
10 fit a grab bar on the back bar leathered if possible if so ignore 8
11put a gentle athwartships curve in the bars over the roof about 1
inch per foot of width as flat roofs puddle
12 when folded down the bars should lay on top of the track and
eachother and not obstruct hatches etc (the one on my boat goes
straight accross the middle of the companionway when folded down at
the
moment i hasten to add i havent had her long enough to have got round
to building a new one …another job for the winter )
13 have a good look around at other peoples hoods and see how theyre
constructed and what works note; seams are supposed to be level with
the centrelines of the bars!

have fun and lots of patience !
phil downey f33 kusi uk
ps my work site is sanders sails: http://www.sanders-/http://www.sanders-
sails.co.uk/ covers/index. html

10

Posted by lolaltd (lolaltd@…>)

Mary,


Did you see the photos I sent of my F30 Dodger?


Lola


— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “mbb05055”
<mary.bigelow@…> wrote:

Excellent things people are contributing here. Thank you everybody!

Phil, we anticipate folding our dodger often as visibility is a huge
issue (myriad lobster pot bouys and their toggles). Thinking of item #
4, say you call the shorter bar that is mounted on a hinge the
daughter, and the longer bar the mother. If the mother bar slants back
doesn’t the daughter bar make the folded dodger somewhat more bulky
and clumsy because it cannot rest flat; it has to rest on the
daughter? And #7, it sound like strataglass is not recomended if the
dodger is going to be folded. Maybe other types of glazing are more
tolerant? I was thinking of putting some extra zips in the windows
that could be undone at folding time to minimize the creasing when
folding. Does that sound reasonable/ For us, waterproofness is not a
huge issue, its the wind we need to deflect. I suppose zips on the
pockets themselves might help reduce strain on windows when folding too.
Today is Saturday. Stainless steel guy is coming on Tuesday. Gotta
get my act together1

Mary
F-30 Corydora
Belfast Maine

11

Posted by mbb05055 (mary.bigelow@…>)

Hi Lola
No, I can’t see your pictures, just little boxes where they should be.
Wish I could. I don’t think you can just attach them like an email…

Mary

12

Posted by lolaltd (lolaltd@…>)

-Email me at lolaltd@…, and i will send direct to you…

Lola


\

Hi Lola
No, I can’t see your pictures, just little boxes where they should be.
Wish I could. I don’t think you can just attach them like an email…

Mary