how to launch/retrieve spinnaker with gun mount?

Posted by gaprior@… (gaprior@…)

Hi All-

I have a F-25 with a round mast and a camberspar jib. I’m looking at ways to
launch and
retrieve the spinnaker. The Hoyt-designed retriever sock that hangs along one
side of the
boat (and uses a fiberglass scoop in the pullpit) doesn’t seem to work because
there isn’t
room for it with the jib forestay in the way.

Here’s the info on what I am calling a chutescoop (it is hoisted up with the
spinnaker, and
is pulled down over the spinnaker while it is raised to douse it):

http://www.chutescoop.com/

Has anyone used a ‘chutescoop’ with a gun mount system? How do the bigger boats
like
the 29 and 32 launch and retrieve the spinnaker?

Thanks, Greg

Posted by Charlie L. (clivaday@…>)

Greg. The chutescoop adds a lot of weight aloft, plus more rigging.
It does work, but not without effort and snags. Is your genoa
forestay permanent, or built into the genoa? If you put a snap
shackle at the bottom of the forestay, you could unsnap it and bring
it back to, and attach it to, a shockcord attached to the base of a
stanchion, to get it out of the way when using the spinnaker. My
genoa on my F21 is on a Harken staysail furler, that has a shackle
on the bottom of the drum. When I use the spinnaker, I furl the
genoa, unsnap the drum from the attachment eye, and bring the furled
genoa + forestay (sewn into the sail) back to a shockcord attached
to the stanchion just aft of the mast. I have two halyards-one for
the genoa, and one above it for the spinnaker. I love the furler.
When day is done, I furl the sail, unsnap the sheets, and drop the
furled sail, still on the drum, into the forward hatch (the small
furling drum line is still attached also, and does not prevent my
hatch from closing securely). I use a fast pin to attach the head of
the sail to the top furler swivel. On the next sail, I attach the
sail to the furler swivel, hoist the furled sail our of the hatch,
snap the drum to the tack eye, snap on the sheets, and voila! Charlie

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, gaprior@i… wrote:

Hi All-

I have a F-25 with a round mast and a camberspar jib. I’m looking
at ways to launch and
retrieve the spinnaker. The Hoyt-designed retriever sock that
hangs along one side of the
boat (and uses a fiberglass scoop in the pullpit) doesn’t seem to
work because there isn’t
room for it with the jib forestay in the way.

Here’s the info on what I am calling a chutescoop (it is hoisted
up with the spinnaker, and
is pulled down over the spinnaker while it is raised to douse it):

http://www.chutescoop.com/

Has anyone used a ‘chutescoop’ with a gun mount system? How do the
bigger boats like
the 29 and 32 launch and retrieve the spinnaker?

Thanks, Greg

Posted by gaprior@… (gaprior@…)

Hi Charlie-

Thanks for the reply. I don’t really have a genoa. The camber spar is
<100%. The forestay has been permanent, but I guess that anything can
be changed. The camber spar system hanks the jib on the forestay and
uses a halyard to raise, and gravity to lower (or go forward and pull
it down). I use the halyard as a topping lift when the jib is down to
raise the camber spar ‘boom’ and the sail off the deck.

I think I’m spoiled from my F-21 days when I could launch and
retrieve the spinnaker from the cockpit. I didn’t have a forestay
then. Maybe it’s not possible or practical to do this in the F-25
with the forestay. I was thinking that a chutescoop might be able to
be launched and retrieved all from the cockpit, but you are right it
will add some more control lines, weight, etc.

I could put a snap hook on the forestay and move it out of the way
when flying the spinnaker. Maybe bringing the camber spar flat up
against the mast to get it out of the way. Then I could probably use
the stock fiberglass scoop that goes in the pullpit (if I had one :-
), and launch and retrieve from the cockpit. I do have two halyards.

I’ve thought about using a furler, even on the F-21 when I had it.
For now I’ll stick with the camber spar and see how well it works.
The winds are usually strong here (San Francisco bay and delta) so I
think the sail will be about the right size (especially since Hoyt
recomends against any jib in winds over 10 knots). I’m guessing that
stronger winds are OK with the camber spar since the larger boats
keep theirs up all the time and just reef the main (I think so
anyhow…).

-Greg


— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Charlie L.”
<clivaday@y…> wrote:

Greg. The chutescoop adds a lot of weight aloft, plus more rigging.
It does work, but not without effort and snags. Is your genoa
forestay permanent, or built into the genoa? If you put a snap
shackle at the bottom of the forestay, you could unsnap it and
bring
it back to, and attach it to, a shockcord attached to the base of a
stanchion, to get it out of the way when using the spinnaker. My
genoa on my F21 is on a Harken staysail furler, that has a shackle
on the bottom of the drum. When I use the spinnaker, I furl the
genoa, unsnap the drum from the attachment eye, and bring the
furled
genoa + forestay (sewn into the sail) back to a shockcord attached
to the stanchion just aft of the mast. I have two halyards-one for
the genoa, and one above it for the spinnaker. I love the furler.
When day is done, I furl the sail, unsnap the sheets, and drop the
furled sail, still on the drum, into the forward hatch (the small
furling drum line is still attached also, and does not prevent my
hatch from closing securely). I use a fast pin to attach the head
of
the sail to the top furler swivel. On the next sail, I attach the
sail to the furler swivel, hoist the furled sail our of the hatch,
snap the drum to the tack eye, snap on the sheets, and voila!
Charlie

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, gaprior@i… wrote:

Hi All-

I have a F-25 with a round mast and a camberspar jib. I’m looking
at ways to launch and
retrieve the spinnaker. The Hoyt-designed retriever sock that
hangs along one side of the
boat (and uses a fiberglass scoop in the pullpit) doesn’t seem to
work because there isn’t
room for it with the jib forestay in the way.

Here’s the info on what I am calling a chutescoop (it is hoisted
up with the spinnaker, and
is pulled down over the spinnaker while it is raised to douse it):

http://www.chutescoop.com/

Has anyone used a ‘chutescoop’ with a gun mount system? How do
the
bigger boats like
the 29 and 32 launch and retrieve the spinnaker?

Thanks, Greg

Posted by Charlie L. (clivaday@…>)

Hi Greg. I know what the Hoyt Jib-boom looks like; but not a
camberspar jib system. Let me know what it looks like, for two
reasoms: 1) I am buying a F 25, with the round carbon mast. It has
the identical rig as the F 21, and I intend to use a staysail furler
on it, just as I do on the F21. 2)Seems to me there has to be a way
to rig your jib on a staysail furler, and get rid of the headstay???
I’d like to explore that possibility further.
Now for another of Charlie’s great ideas, which he uses on the
F21!!! I have a Doyle UPS sail for the F21. It is a strong nylon
headsail, with a shape between a spinnaker and a jib/genoa, with a
straight luff. Because of the straight luff, you can use a staysail
furler. Because of the large leech/roach, you can fly it downwind
without a pole. It is a cross between a spinnaker and a genoa/jib on
a Furler! It can be used up to 12 knots. I’ve used mine up to 15
knots. You can go upwind at a reasonable angle; and on reaches it’s
great. If you are not a serious racer, you might just get a UPS, and
get rid of your gunmount, spinnaker, and camberspar, and all of the
rigging that goes with those devices. Go to the Doyle website for
specific info and pictures. The first sail I buy for my new F25 will
be a UPS. Good Luck. Charlie


— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, gaprior@i… wrote:

Hi Charlie-

Thanks for the reply. I don’t really have a genoa. The camber spar
is
<100%. The forestay has been permanent, but I guess that anything
can
be changed. The camber spar system hanks the jib on the forestay
and
uses a halyard to raise, and gravity to lower (or go forward and
pull
it down). I use the halyard as a topping lift when the jib is down
to
raise the camber spar ‘boom’ and the sail off the deck.

I think I’m spoiled from my F-21 days when I could launch and
retrieve the spinnaker from the cockpit. I didn’t have a forestay
then. Maybe it’s not possible or practical to do this in the F-25
with the forestay. I was thinking that a chutescoop might be able
to
be launched and retrieved all from the cockpit, but you are right
it
will add some more control lines, weight, etc.

I could put a snap hook on the forestay and move it out of the way
when flying the spinnaker. Maybe bringing the camber spar flat up
against the mast to get it out of the way. Then I could probably
use
the stock fiberglass scoop that goes in the pullpit (if I had
one :-
), and launch and retrieve from the cockpit. I do have two
halyards.

I’ve thought about using a furler, even on the F-21 when I had it.
For now I’ll stick with the camber spar and see how well it works.
The winds are usually strong here (San Francisco bay and delta) so
I
think the sail will be about the right size (especially since Hoyt
recomends against any jib in winds over 10 knots). I’m guessing
that
stronger winds are OK with the camber spar since the larger boats
keep theirs up all the time and just reef the main (I think so
anyhow…).

-Greg

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Charlie L.”
<clivaday@y…> wrote:

Greg. The chutescoop adds a lot of weight aloft, plus more
rigging.
It does work, but not without effort and snags. Is your genoa
forestay permanent, or built into the genoa? If you put a snap
shackle at the bottom of the forestay, you could unsnap it and
bring
it back to, and attach it to, a shockcord attached to the base
of a
stanchion, to get it out of the way when using the spinnaker. My
genoa on my F21 is on a Harken staysail furler, that has a
shackle
on the bottom of the drum. When I use the spinnaker, I furl the
genoa, unsnap the drum from the attachment eye, and bring the
furled
genoa + forestay (sewn into the sail) back to a shockcord
attached
to the stanchion just aft of the mast. I have two halyards-one
for
the genoa, and one above it for the spinnaker. I love the
furler.
When day is done, I furl the sail, unsnap the sheets, and drop
the
furled sail, still on the drum, into the forward hatch (the
small
furling drum line is still attached also, and does not prevent
my
hatch from closing securely). I use a fast pin to attach the
head
of
the sail to the top furler swivel. On the next sail, I attach
the
sail to the furler swivel, hoist the furled sail our of the
hatch,
snap the drum to the tack eye, snap on the sheets, and voila!
Charlie

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, gaprior@i… wrote:

Hi All-

I have a F-25 with a round mast and a camberspar jib. I’m
looking
at ways to launch and
retrieve the spinnaker. The Hoyt-designed retriever sock that
hangs along one side of the
boat (and uses a fiberglass scoop in the pullpit) doesn’t seem
to
work because there isn’t
room for it with the jib forestay in the way.

Here’s the info on what I am calling a chutescoop (it is
hoisted
up with the spinnaker, and
is pulled down over the spinnaker while it is raised to douse
it):

http://www.chutescoop.com/

Has anyone used a ‘chutescoop’ with a gun mount system? How do
the
bigger boats like
the 29 and 32 launch and retrieve the spinnaker?

Thanks, Greg

Posted by gaprior@… (gaprior@…)

Hi Charlie-

Take a look at the ‘files’ page on the yahoo freedom page. There is a
folder there called ‘camber spar info’. The brochure and some
technical info are in the folder. I have a photo of my setup at:

http://homepage.mac.com/gregprior/PhotoAlbum15.html

Most of the cat/sloop boats larger than the 25 have this arrangement.
Mine is the only F-25 that I know of with this setup. A lot of the
Freedom owners like this setup because it is easy to single-hand.
Great for the cruising crowd. I don’t know about the racers. Others
have gone the way of roller furling, Hoyt jib-boom, etc.

I’ll look into the Doyle setup, but so far, I really like the camber
spar setup…

-Greg

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Charlie L.”
<clivaday@y…> wrote:

Hi Greg. I know what the Hoyt Jib-boom looks like; but not a
camberspar jib system. Let me know what it looks like, for two
reasoms: 1) I am buying a F 25, with the round carbon mast. It has
the identical rig as the F 21, and I intend to use a staysail
furler
on it, just as I do on the F21. 2)Seems to me there has to be a way
to rig your jib on a staysail furler, and get rid of the
headstay???
I’d like to explore that possibility further.
Now for another of Charlie’s great ideas, which he uses on the
F21!!! I have a Doyle UPS sail for the F21. It is a strong nylon
headsail, with a shape between a spinnaker and a jib/genoa, with a
straight luff. Because of the straight luff, you can use a staysail
furler. Because of the large leech/roach, you can fly it downwind
without a pole. It is a cross between a spinnaker and a genoa/jib
on
a Furler! It can be used up to 12 knots. I’ve used mine up to 15
knots. You can go upwind at a reasonable angle; and on reaches
it’s
great. If you are not a serious racer, you might just get a UPS,
and
get rid of your gunmount, spinnaker, and camberspar, and all of the
rigging that goes with those devices. Go to the Doyle website for
specific info and pictures. The first sail I buy for my new F25
will
be a UPS. Good Luck. Charlie

------------ snip -------------------

Posted by Charlie L. (clivaday@…>)

Hi Greg. Thanks for the info and pictures. You could attach the UPS
to your pole end, on its roller furler, and tack it between the
headstay and end of the pole; or roller furl it before tacking, and
unfurl on the lee side after tacking. One of the major differences
between the UPS and an asymmetrical spinnaker is that the ups has a
straight luff, which allows it to be roller furled. I like the
concept of the camberspar. Happy sailing. Charlie


— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, gaprior@i… wrote:

Hi Charlie-

Take a look at the ‘files’ page on the yahoo freedom page. There
is a
folder there called ‘camber spar info’. The brochure and some
technical info are in the folder. I have a photo of my setup at:

http://homepage.mac.com/gregprior/PhotoAlbum15.html

Most of the cat/sloop boats larger than the 25 have this
arrangement.
Mine is the only F-25 that I know of with this setup. A lot of the
Freedom owners like this setup because it is easy to single-hand.
Great for the cruising crowd. I don’t know about the racers.
Others
have gone the way of roller furling, Hoyt jib-boom, etc.

I’ll look into the Doyle setup, but so far, I really like the
camber
spar setup…

-Greg

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Charlie L.”
<clivaday@y…> wrote:

Hi Greg. I know what the Hoyt Jib-boom looks like; but not a
camberspar jib system. Let me know what it looks like, for two
reasoms: 1) I am buying a F 25, with the round carbon mast. It
has
the identical rig as the F 21, and I intend to use a staysail
furler
on it, just as I do on the F21. 2)Seems to me there has to be a
way
to rig your jib on a staysail furler, and get rid of the
headstay???
I’d like to explore that possibility further.
Now for another of Charlie’s great ideas, which he uses on the
F21!!! I have a Doyle UPS sail for the F21. It is a strong nylon
headsail, with a shape between a spinnaker and a jib/genoa, with
a
straight luff. Because of the straight luff, you can use a
staysail
furler. Because of the large leech/roach, you can fly it
downwind
without a pole. It is a cross between a spinnaker and a
genoa/jib
on
a Furler! It can be used up to 12 knots. I’ve used mine up to 15
knots. You can go upwind at a reasonable angle; and on reaches
it’s
great. If you are not a serious racer, you might just get a UPS,
and
get rid of your gunmount, spinnaker, and camberspar, and all of
the
rigging that goes with those devices. Go to the Doyle website
for
specific info and pictures. The first sail I buy for my new F25
will
be a UPS. Good Luck. Charlie

------------ snip -------------------

Posted by grmill2000 (grmill@…>)

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, gaprior@… wrote:

Hi Greg,

do you have site for the photo of your set up or could you send me a
xopy.

Thanks George

Hi Charlie-

Take a look at the ‘files’ page on the yahoo freedom page. There is a
folder there called ‘camber spar info’. The brochure and some
technical info are in the folder. I have a photo of my setup at:

http://homepage.mac.com/gregprior/PhotoAlbum15.html

Most of the cat/sloop boats larger than the 25 have this arrangement.
Mine is the only F-25 that I know of with this setup. A lot of the
Freedom owners like this setup because it is easy to single-hand.
Great for the cruising crowd. I don’t know about the racers. Others
have gone the way of roller furling, Hoyt jib-boom, etc.

I’ll look into the Doyle setup, but so far, I really like the camber
spar setup…

-Greg

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Charlie L.”
<clivaday@y…> wrote:

Hi Greg. I know what the Hoyt Jib-boom looks like; but not a
camberspar jib system. Let me know what it looks like, for two
reasoms: 1) I am buying a F 25, with the round carbon mast. It has
the identical rig as the F 21, and I intend to use a staysail
furler
on it, just as I do on the F21. 2)Seems to me there has to be a way
to rig your jib on a staysail furler, and get rid of the
headstay???
I’d like to explore that possibility further.
Now for another of Charlie’s great ideas, which he uses on the
F21!!! I have a Doyle UPS sail for the F21. It is a strong nylon
headsail, with a shape between a spinnaker and a jib/genoa, with a
straight luff. Because of the straight luff, you can use a staysail
furler. Because of the large leech/roach, you can fly it downwind
without a pole. It is a cross between a spinnaker and a genoa/jib
on
a Furler! It can be used up to 12 knots. I’ve used mine up to 15
knots. You can go upwind at a reasonable angle; and on reaches
it’s
great. If you are not a serious racer, you might just get a UPS,
and
get rid of your gunmount, spinnaker, and camberspar, and all of the
rigging that goes with those devices. Go to the Doyle website for
specific info and pictures. The first sail I buy for my new F25
will
be a UPS. Good Luck. Charlie

------------ snip -------------------