Lazy Jacks & Garhauer

Archives
1

Posted by ron barr (rwhb@…>)


Thanks for the comments Rick,

We find that the battens do seem to catch on the lazy jacks
quite frequently on the way up. It would seem inevitable with a cat mainsail
with that amount of roach. I can’t think what we are doing wrong!   I’ll check
into the Garhauer rig. It would certainly help in the absence of a proper
topping lift.

New to Freedoms, although old to sailing, I’m hoping someone
will comment on my new sail design questions just posted yesterday!

Ron
Newport RI



From:
FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of rick_simonds
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 9:24 PM
To: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Re: Al Lorman & Lazy Jacks

\




— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com,
“ron barr” <rwhb@…> wrote:

Thanks Al, I’ll see if I can find it… the Garhauer rig
presumably eliminates the topping lift? Is it the same as the
Boomkicker â€" I have forgotten, old age creeping in….

The Garhauer solid vang is, IMHO, a different and much better product
than a Boomkicker, and it turns out it’s substantially cheaper. It
will support the boom every bit as well and is FAR more powerful at
pulling it down when needed, off the wind. The custom made collar they
made that goes around the mast was something like $150 and it is
impressive: strong and beautiful, the work of an artisan. My highest
recommendation for the Garhauer. My ability to trim for a balanced
helm improved greatly by installing a powerful vang.

I don’t tighten or loosen my lazy jacks ever, I just leave them with a
slight bit of slack in them all the time. I do have to head into the
wind to raise the sail. They rarely, if ever, touch the sail when it’s
up. They catch the sail just fine coming down. I’ve never bothered
with a topping lift, either. The lazy jacks held the boom up fine
before I had the solid vang and now that seems even better.

Rick
Tallahassee


\

2

Posted by jlittle@… (jlittle@…)
If you rig a rigid vang you will not need to keep the lazy jacks tensioned all the time. They are then only needed when lowering the sail. At other times you can ease them off and using shock cord pull them against the mast. This will eliminate the snag issue, you can use lighter line for the lazy jacks and you will no longer need a sail cover with slits and zippers for the formerly deployed lazy jacks.
The above was a suggestion to me by Steve Haarstick.

John Little----- Original Message -----From: ron barr Date: Friday, November 9, 2007 11:29 amSubject: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Lazy Jacks & GarhauerTo: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com> Thanks for the comments Rick,> > > > We find that the battens do seem to catch on the lazy jacks > quite frequently on the way up. It would seem inevitable with a > cat mainsail with that amount of roach. I can’t think what we > are doing wrong! I’ll check into the Garhauer rig. It would > certainly help in the absence of a proper topping lift.> > > > New to Freedoms, although old to sailing, I’m hoping someone > will comment on my new sail design questions just posted yesterday!> > > > > > Ron > > Newport RI > > > > From: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rick_simonds> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 9:24 PM> To: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Re: Al Lorman & Lazy Jacks> > > > — In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com > , “ron barr” > wrote:> >> > Thanks Al, I’ll see if I can find it… the Garhauer rig> presumably eliminates the topping lift? Is it the same as the> Boomkicker â€" I have forgotten, old age creeping in….> > > > > The Garhauer solid vang is, IMHO, a different and much better product> than a Boomkicker, and it turns out it’s substantially cheaper. It> will support the boom every bit as well and is FAR more powerful at> pulling it down when needed, off the wind. The custom made > collar they> made that goes around the mast was something like $150 and it is> impressive: strong and beautiful, the work of an artisan. My highest> recommendation for the Garhauer. My ability to trim for a balanced> helm improved greatly by installing a powerful vang.> > I don’t tighten or loosen my lazy jacks ever, I just leave them > with a> slight bit of slack in them all the time. I do have to head into the> wind to raise the sail. They rarely, if ever, touch the sail > when it’s> up. They catch the sail just fine coming down. I’ve never bothered> with a topping lift, either. The lazy jacks held the boom up fine> before I had the solid vang and now that seems even better.> > Rick> Tallahassee> > > >

3

Posted by katorpus (jrb@…>)

The battens that are shorter than the distance from the mast to the
aft attachment of the lazy jack do tend to get “outside” the triangle
created by the upper turning block in the lazy jack system.

Fortunately, this happens pretty early on in the hoist. Your
halyard/sail track/track slide system SHOULD be “free” enough that
you are still raising the sail by hauling on the halyard (without
mechanical assistance) at this point, in which case you can (by
leaving the line stopper open) “jog” the sail up by watching the
movement of the sail and timing the flogging as you head into the
wind.

Extending the upper (lifeline wire material) pendant of the lazy jack
system and getting those blocks lower down toward the boom would
increase the angle of the line as it passes through the block and
lower the point at which the sail exits the “cradle” created by the
lazy jack lines, thus making this even easier. Don’t overdo this, or
you’ll lose too much of the efficacy of the cradle.

With a little practice, it will become second nature to get the sail
up under the original configuration, however. I haven’t extended my
pendants any, but if I ever replace them, I may well make them a
couple of feet longer.



— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “ron barr” <rwhb@…>
wrote:

Thanks for the comments Rick,

We find that the battens do seem to catch on the lazy jacks quite
frequently on the way up. It would seem inevitable with a cat
mainsail with that amount of roach. I can’t think what we are doing
wrong! I’ll check into the Garhauer rig. It would certainly help
in the absence of a proper topping lift.

New to Freedoms, although old to sailing, I’m hoping someone will
comment on my new sail design questions just posted yesterday!

Ron

Newport RI

From: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rick_simonds
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 9:24 PM
To: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Re: Al Lorman & Lazy Jacks

— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup%40yahoogroups.com , “ron barr” <rwhb@>
wrote:

Thanks Al, I’ll see if I can find it… the Garhauer
rig
presumably eliminates the topping lift? Is it the same as the
Boomkicker â€" I have forgotten, old age creeping in….

The Garhauer solid vang is, IMHO, a different and much better
product
than a Boomkicker, and it turns out it’s substantially cheaper. It
will support the boom every bit as well and is FAR more powerful at
pulling it down when needed, off the wind. The custom made collar
they
made that goes around the mast was something like $150 and it is
impressive: strong and beautiful, the work of an artisan. My highest
recommendation for the Garhauer. My ability to trim for a balanced
helm improved greatly by installing a powerful vang.

I don’t tighten or loosen my lazy jacks ever, I just leave them
with a
slight bit of slack in them all the time. I do have to head into the
wind to raise the sail. They rarely, if ever, touch the sail when
it’s
up. They catch the sail just fine coming down. I’ve never bothered
with a topping lift, either. The lazy jacks held the boom up fine
before I had the solid vang and now that seems even better.

Rick
Tallahassee

4

Posted by rick_simonds (rick_simonds@…>)

— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “katorpus” <jrb@…> wrote:

The battens that are shorter than the distance from the mast to the
aft attachment of the lazy jack do tend to get “outside” the
triangle
created by the upper turning block in the lazy jack system.

Exactly. It’s just the first 2 battens.

On my original mainsail the battens stuck out of the pockets maybe 2"
or so. On my new, 3 month old main they only stick out a fraction of
an inch. The pockets themselves are a nicer design, they have webbing
around the end of the batten and are velcro closed rather than tied.
I still head into the wind to raise the sail, though perhaps now just
by habit. Getting the battens stuck on the lazyjacks still isn’t
quite impossible but it’s now more difficult and more likely just to
pull itself free when it does.

(Disclaimer: Just thinking out loud here, I haven’t actually done
this, but:) If the old main ever goes back on think I’d be
disappointed to have those 2 battens sticking out again. Knowing what
I know now, I wonder why I never just sawed 'em off…

5

Posted by ron barr (rwhb@…>)


Yes I have used the shock cord method on prior boats and
wondered why it is not more popular on Freedoms. It also makes stowing in the
sail cover much easier and quicker — anybody see a downside?

Ron

Newport RI
Freedom 32



From:
FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of jlittle@…
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 11:40 AM
To: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Lazy Jacks & Garhauer

\





If you rig a rigid vang you will not need to keep the lazy
jacks tensioned all the time. They are then only needed when lowering the
sail. At other times you can ease them off and using shock cord pull them
against the mast. This will eliminate the snag issue, you can use lighter
line for the lazy jacks and you will no longer need a sail cover with slits and
zippers for the formerly deployed lazy jacks.


The above was a suggestion to me by Steve Haarstick.

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John Little







\

6

Posted by katorpus (jrb@…>)

Downsides…

  1. Lines & blocks banging on the masts in the breeze.

  2. The lazy jacks (in their normal position) seem to dissuade most of
    the shorebirds from perching on the booms/sails/sail covers…ditto
    for the halyard extended to boom-end (like a topping lift) I seldom
    see any bird poop on my sailcovers or the decks beneath.



    — In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “ron barr” <rwhb@…>
    wrote:

Yes I have used the shock cord method on prior boats and wondered
why it is
not more popular on Freedoms. It also makes stowing in the sail
cover much
easier and quicker — anybody see a downside?

Ron

Newport RI

Freedom 32

7

Posted by jerry weinraub (zayde@…>)

I have Garhauer vangs on my F33. I loosen the jacks and loop them around
a cleat on the booms,before making sail … I re set them while sailing.
All problems solved. I’ve had them 6 years with NO problems

ron barr wrote:

Thanks for the comments Rick,

We find that the battens do seem to catch on the lazy jacks quite
frequently on the way up. It would seem inevitable with a cat mainsail
with that amount of roach. I can’t think what we are doing wrong!
I’ll check into the Garhauer rig. It would certainly help in the
absence of a proper topping lift.

New to Freedoms, although old to sailing, I’m hoping someone will
comment on my new sail design questions just posted yesterday!

Ron

Newport RI

From: FreedomOwnersGroup@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:FreedomOwne
rsGroup@yahoogro ups.com] *On Behalf Of *rick_simonds
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 9:24 PM
To: FreedomOwnersGroup@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: [FreedomOwnersGroup ] Re: Al Lorman & Lazy Jacks

— In FreedomOwnersGroup@ yahoogroups. com
mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup%40yahoogroups.com, “ron barr” <rwhb@…>
wrote:

Thanks Al, I’ll see if I can find it… the Garhauer rig
presumably eliminates the topping lift? Is it the same as the
Boomkicker â€" I have forgotten, old age creeping in….

The Garhauer solid vang is, IMHO, a different and much better product
than a Boomkicker, and it turns out it’s substantially cheaper. It
will support the boom every bit as well and is FAR more powerful at
pulling it down when needed, off the wind. The custom made collar they
made that goes around the mast was something like $150 and it is
impressive: strong and beautiful, the work of an artisan. My highest
recommendation for the Garhauer. My ability to trim for a balanced
helm improved greatly by installing a powerful vang.

I don’t tighten or loosen my lazy jacks ever, I just leave them with a
slight bit of slack in them all the time. I do have to head into the
wind to raise the sail. They rarely, if ever, touch the sail when it’s
up. They catch the sail just fine coming down. I’ve never bothered
with a topping lift, either. The lazy jacks held the boom up fine
before I had the solid vang and now that seems even better.

Rick
Tallahassee

8

Posted by jerry weinraub (zayde@…>)

Yep. The jacks will slap agin the mast

ron barr wrote:

Yes I have used the shock cord method on prior boats and wondered why
it is not more popular on Freedoms. It also makes stowing in the sail
cover much easier and quicker — anybody see a downside?

Ron

Newport RI

Freedom 32

From: FreedomOwnersGroup@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:FreedomOwne
rsGroup@yahoogro ups.com] *On Behalf Of *jlittle@optonline. net
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 11:40 AM
To: FreedomOwnersGroup@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [FreedomOwnersGroup ] Lazy Jacks & Garhauer

If you rig a rigid vang you will not need to keep the lazy jacks
tensioned all the time. They are then only needed when lowering the
sail. At other times you can ease them off and using shock cord pull
them against the mast. This will eliminate the snag issue, you can
use lighter line for the lazy jacks and you will no longer need a sail
cover with slits and zippers for the formerly deployed lazy jacks.

The above was a suggestion to me by Steve Haarstick.

John Little

9

Posted by rick_simonds (rick_simonds@…>)

We find that the battens do seem to catch on the lazy jacks quite
frequently on the way up. It would seem inevitable with a cat mainsail
with that amount of roach. I can’t think what we are doing wrong!
I’ll check into the Garhauer rig. It would certainly help in the
absence of a proper topping lift.



Actually, the vang won’t help the problem of catching of the battens
on the lazyjacks at all, if anything I find it to be slightly worse
with a solid vang.

When there’s a solid vang supporting the boom the jacks will be a bit
farther apart from each other but they are also floppier then when
they are under tension because of the weight of the boom. When the
jacks are under tension they at least stay put. With a vang they dance
around a bit. You will be trying to put a moving sail through a set of
moving jacks, sort of like kicking a field goal while they move the
goalposts around.

A solid vang is still worth it, though.

10

Posted by ron barr (rwhb@…>)


You can avoid that by running the shock cord downward from the blocks
at an angle so that they finish aft of the mast in such a way to keep
the jacks themselves away from the mast by a foot or two. Not cleating or uncleating
of jacks needed. Fairly strong shock cord is needed as I recall.

Ron
Newport



From:
FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of jerry weinraub
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 6:01 PM
To: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Lazy Jacks & Garhauer

\




Yep. The jacks will slap agin the mast

ron barr wrote:

Yes I have used the shock cord method on prior boats and wondered why
it is not more popular on Freedoms. It also makes stowing in the sail
cover much easier and quicker — anybody see a downside?

Ron

Newport RI

Freedom 32

From: FreedomOwnersGroup@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:FreedomOwne
rsGroup@yahoogro ups.com] *On Behalf Of *jlittle@optonline. net
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 11:40 AM
To: FreedomOwnersGroup@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [FreedomOwnersGroup ] Lazy Jacks & Garhauer

If you rig a rigid vang you will not need to keep the lazy jacks
tensioned all the time. They are then only needed when lowering the
sail. At other times you can ease them off and using shock cord pull
them against the mast. This will eliminate the snag issue, you can
use lighter line for the lazy jacks and you will no longer need a sail
cover with slits and zippers for the formerly deployed lazy jacks.

The above was a suggestion to me by Steve Haarstick.

John Little



\

11

Posted by ron barr (rwhb@…>)


IMHO this is another reason to add shock cord restrainers to
stop the lazy jacks flapping around……

Ron
Newport RI 02840



From:
FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of rick_simonds
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 10:12 PM
To: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Re: Lazy Jacks & Garhauer

\




\

We find that the battens do seem to catch on the lazy jacks quite
frequently on the way up. It would seem inevitable with a cat mainsail
with that amount of roach. I can’t think what we are doing wrong!
I’ll check into the Garhauer rig. It would certainly help in the
absence of a proper topping lift.

Actually, the vang won’t help the problem of catching of the battens
on the lazyjacks at all, if anything I find it to be slightly worse
with a solid vang.

When there’s a solid vang supporting the boom the jacks will be a bit
farther apart from each other but they are also floppier then when
they are under tension because of the weight of the boom. When the
jacks are under tension they at least stay put. With a vang they dance
around a bit. You will be trying to put a moving sail through a set of
moving jacks, sort of like kicking a field goal while they move the
goalposts around.

A solid vang is still worth it, though.


\