Looking for a F32

Posted by Alex_lp (alex.puritche@…>)

Hello! :slight_smile:
I’m new on the group. I’ve joined the group in order to gather more
information about Freedoms. My interest to Freedoms started after
Vladimir (I think he participates this group as well, Hello Vladimir)
bought F28 cat ketch and wrote sort of article on a forum.

Although I still have a few questions. First and main - can somebody
send me interior plans for H32 and M32? I do not clearly understand
the difference between them, (as I [mis?]understood) besides that H32
is slightly better built than M32 (comparing one to another, not to
nowadays boats).

However, even I still have some worries (about balsa, etc) yesterday I
finally came to a conclusion I want a Freedom. :slight_smile: The range I’m
looking for is 28-32, deep draft, ketch/sloop - both are OK.
Geographically she must be on East cost, Florida is preferred. I know
about “winter boats”, but my boss lives in Florida (I’m programmer,
live in Moldova, Europe), so I have some help from his side.

Also, if someone knows the owner (or maybe he is on the group) of
Punta Gorda’s, FL, F32 deep draft sloop listed on Yachtworld - please
let me know, I want to get know history and all details about the boat.

Thanks!
Alex

Posted by Fargo Rousseau (fargo_r@…>)
Welcome, Alex:Tell us about your plans for using the boat. Where do you want to cruise? For how long? With how many people? The more detailed and realistic the better we can help you.FargoEx: F30 owner (identical to Mull32 Freedom).

Posted by Alex_lp (alex.puritche@…>)

Hello, Fargo!

Tell us about your plans for using the boat.
Very good question… :slight_smile: Past 3 years (evaluating different boats from
MacGregor, through Didi-26 and Roberts 310 to Irwin 37 CC) I tried to
understand what for I need a boat and which one is right for me.

Where do you want to cruise?
Because of troubles with my citizenship and very limited abilities to
get a mid term (1-3 months) visa, intended cruising area is Turkey
(see noonsite.com for details), later I may extend it to Greece islands.

For how long?
As programmer, I can work from any place where I can connect to
internet, so initial plans are 5-6-7 months of each year, April-October.

With how many people?
Alone - 1.5 months (splitted into 2 periods, one in spring and one in
fall)
With my family (wife and 1 10 years old daughter) - 3-3.5 months
(summer time vacation)
1-2 weeks per “season” occasional guests like my older brother, some
friends, etc. But none of them love the sea (the sea returns the
same), so it will not last for very long time.

I’m 6 feet tall, “mid-shaped” with 225 lbs of weight. We (me and my
family) usually need very little place… When I work in the bedroom
(I work at home), they come over, lay down on the bed next by me and
do the thing the want/need to do, and it is near to impossible to
“deport” them to other rooms. :))

Posted by Fargo Rousseau (fargo_r@…>)
Alex:Of all the boats in the Freedom range (in the 32 to 36 foot area) that might be suitable for your application, I would be thinking about the F33 more than the either of the F32 models. It is heavier and a proven ocean boat. In Europe they are called the F35…and they are much more expensive there than the F33 is here. You really can’t know what you want in a boat until you have one…but that is a part of the learning experience you must accept. I can understand that you are well adapted to living in small spaces…which is good. A boat is a very small space. Living with a daughter who is 10 and soon 13, will take a lot more space. They will want their stuff…their privacy…but more importantly, their friends. The Irwin 37 you mention is much more suited to divided living…because it separates living into two zones…fore and aft…with separate heads. No Freedom, short of the Mull 42/45 series is
so divided. And Irwin 37s are very cheap. Larger Freedoms are not.I am still not clear about where you want to buy your boat. Best,FargoAlex_lp <alex.puritche@…> wrote: Hello, Fargo! >Tell us about your plans for using the boat. Very good question… :slight_smile: Past 3 years (evaluating different boats from MacGregor, through Didi-26 and Roberts 310 to Irwin 37 CC) I tried to understand what for I need a boat and which one is right for me. >Where do you want to cruise? Because of
troubles with my citizenship and very limited abilities to get a mid term (1-3 months) visa, intended cruising area is Turkey (see noonsite.com for details), later I may extend it to Greece islands. >For how long? As programmer, I can work from any place where I can connect to internet, so initial plans are 5-6-7 months of each year, April-October. >With how many people? Alone - 1.5 months (splitted into 2 periods, one in spring and one in fall) With my family (wife and 1 10 years old daughter) - 3-3.5 months (summer time vacation) 1-2 weeks per “season” occasional guests like my older brother, some friends, etc. But none of them love the sea (the sea returns the same), so it will not last for very long time. I’m 6 feet tall, “mid-shaped” with 225 lbs of weight. We (me and my family) usually need very little place… When I work in the bedroom (I work at home), they come over, lay down on
the bed next by me and do the thing the want/need to do, and it is near to impossible to “deport” them to other rooms. :))

Posted by Alex_lp (alex.puritche@…>)

I will start from the end…

I am still not clear about where you want to buy your boat.
In meanings of continents - in the USA. Reasons are:

  1. I earn dollars, dollar is weak now, buying something in Europe
    makes no sense, because prices are higher in plain numbers than in the
    USA, add here 1:1.5 Euro:USD ratio, you will get the point.
  2. in Turkey, 12-15 years old 30 feeter (all years in charter
    business, read as - totaled) costs about $45K (~30K Euro) - the price
    of the really perfect F30 Al is selling now.
  3. I don’t want a “mainstream boat” (by “mainstream boat” I mean
    modern paper-thin boats designer for winds up to 20 knots in
    Mediterranean and produced mainly for charter business). I attended
    sailing courses at a RYA sailing school 3 times past 18 months. Sailed
    3 different boats (Jeanneau Oceanis 343, Dufour 41 Classic, Jeanneau
    Oceanis 390), none of them I’d consider to buy. Tacking angle of 110
    degrees + 10 degrees of drift is something I really want to stay off.

Location in the USA.
East coast, because area of intended boat use is East Mediterranean.
How I will get boat there is still a question. If I find a good
skipper my wife can trust, I will sail, another option is to hire a
deliverer, another option (I really think about) is Ro-Ro.
So, a very nice Freedom I can afford can be located in virtually any
part of the East cost. However, I’m really interested in any 28-32
Freedoms for sale located in Florida. I remotely work for a company
located in Coral Springs, Florida. My boss knows my desire to sail and
promised to help buy a boat. So, it is really unresonable to refuse
his help.

So, bottom line on location. Florida boats go first, bargain deals -
any other states of East Coast.


Re size
My last sailing course on 40 feeter was a bit atypical. I was sailing
40 feeter for a week (costal sailing) single handed. I had my family
aboard and sailing instructor. Idea of the training was to train my
family (long story) and to train me on single handling. I had ~325
sq.f. of Main and ~650 sq.f. of Genoa… Well… It is very hard work,
and that school boat hadn’t self-tailing winches. I felt like a slave
on the galleys.
Lesson I learned by heart - big boats are very difficult to handle. It
can be not that difficult on ocean passages, but on costal sailing
along mountains, where wind direction and force changes 8-10-15 times
per day, you call for troubles. And I want to enjoy it…
You can find a boat I was near to buy 20 days ago. It is Aloa 27, in
Turkey, for 10K sterling pounds. Take a look, it will make sense what
boat I was ready to fit me in.

However, I’m really not going to ignore your advice on the size. The
only reason I changed my mind about Irwin 37 CC is poor production
quality. They are budget boats, which is generally not bad. However, I
want to sail, I’m OK to do repairs as far as they are related to
electricity, electronics or plumbing. But I can’t paint (nice), I
can’t do woodwork (any). So, after some thinking, I came to a
conclusion that if something go wrong with Irwin, I will be in
trouble. Another side of Irwin 37 is the fact that it was designed as
costal cruiser. Shoal draft doesn’t give you a good tacking angle and
capsize ratio. Centerboard improves tacking angle, but centerboard
isn’t a thing I want to have on my boat. It is quite complex system in
one of the most important areas. Just matter of trust.

Another thing I really enjoy about Freedoms is free standing mast.
Maaan… It is actually a miracle! It is extremely simple comparing to
the traditional rig. Besides that it is self-depowering, which is very
good if you got a gust while taking a nap on a singlehanded passage.
Besides that it contains much less parts, which significantly
increasing fault tolerance of the entire system. The only problem
about Freedom masts I slightly worried about is lightening strike.

So, after about 30 years or so, Mr Hoyt caught me (or whose is the
idea of Freedoms) - I want a smaller, but a better built boat. That is
why I think about Freedom.

The thing I worried about with Freedoms is balsa core. I dislike it
and will be very thankful for any input on this subject.

Re daughter.
Well… If she wants a better yacht she (as she will grow up) is free
to find a boy-friend with better and bigger boat. LOL
To understand the joke, take a look at a world map and try to find
Moldova, it is a “grape” squeezed in between of Romania and Ukraine,
20 miles north of the north-west corner of the Black Sea. No coastline
at all! Just a few lakes, biggest one is a triangle (1x4 nm), where I
took my first sailing classes on a Laser boat. Biggest yacht is a 22
feeter, old micro class “racer”. With a 32 feeter her daddy will be
the coolest guy in the country. LOL

If you are reading this line - know that I’m really thankful to you
for your patience!

Posted by Fargo Rousseau (fargo_r@…>)
Alex:I fully understand your motivation to buy here on the east coast of the USA. Our dollar is very cheap now and our market is flooded with boats for sale including a few good Freedoms. I would feel better about recommending an F32 (Hoyt or Mull which is available as a 30 or 32…same boat, different transom) if you were going to ship it to Europe. My opinion, after a year and more than 6,000 km in a Mull 30, is that it is not a good Atlantic crossing boat. It is, however, a wonderful boat to live on. The Hoyt 32 will feel wider and more solid, and may have some Atlantic crossing experience…???The F33, which was designed in the Hoyt era, is still the best choice in this size range as far as I can see. Sails are small, rig is divided, hull and rig very well proven at sea…but they are all older boats here.If you want to stay with Freedom, then you might look at the F36. With your rate of exchange,
this would look like a F32 looks to us on cost. A very roomy boat, heavier than all other Freedoms up to 35 feet, and very nice feeling below. Lots of privacy in the aft double bunk…behind a closed door. Take a look. You might give shipping some deep thought. Sailing to Europe has much expense involved…uncertain timing…and lots of wear and tear on the boat and you and your relationship…Best to you.FargoWill send some great pictures of our F30/32 if you send me your email address. Alex_lp <alex.puritche@…> wrote: I will start from the end… > I am still not clear about where you want to buy your boat. In meanings of continents - in the USA. Reasons are: 1. I earn dollars, dollar is weak now, buying something in Europe makes no sense, because prices are higher in plain numbers than in the USA, add here 1:1.5 Euro:USD ratio, you will get the point. 2. in Turkey, 12-15 years old 30 feeter (all years in charter business, read as - totaled) costs about $45K (~30K Euro) - the price of the really perfect F30 Al is selling now. 3. I don’t want a “mainstream boat” (by “mainstream boat” I mean modern paper-thin boats designer for winds up to 20 knots in Mediterranean and produced mainly for charter business). I attended sailing courses at a RYA sailing school 3 times past 18 months. Sailed 3 different boats (Jeanneau Oceanis 343, Dufour 41 Classic, Jeanneau Oceanis 390), none of them I’d
consider to buy. Tacking angle of 110 degrees + 10 degrees of drift is something I really want to stay off. Location in the USA. East coast, because area of intended boat use is East Mediterranean. How I will get boat there is still a question. If I find a good skipper my wife can trust, I will sail, another option is to hire a deliverer, another option (I really think about) is Ro-Ro. So, a very nice Freedom I can afford can be located in virtually any part of the East cost. However, I’m really interested in any 28-32 Freedoms for sale located in Florida. I remotely work for a company located in Coral Springs, Florida. My boss knows my desire to sail and promised to help buy a boat. So, it is really unresonable to refuse his help. So, bottom line on location. Florida boats go first, bargain deals - any other states of East Coast. Re size My last sailing course on 40 feeter was a bit atypical. I
was sailing 40 feeter for a week (costal sailing) single handed. I had my family aboard and sailing instructor. Idea of the training was to train my family (long story) and to train me on single handling. I had ~325 sq.f. of Main and ~650 sq.f. of Genoa… Well… It is very hard work, and that school boat hadn’t self-tailing winches. I felt like a slave on the galleys. Lesson I learned by heart - big boats are very difficult to handle. It can be not that difficult on ocean passages, but on costal sailing along mountains, where wind direction and force changes 8-10-15 times per day, you call for troubles. And I want to enjoy it… You can find a boat I was near to buy 20 days ago. It is Aloa 27, in Turkey, for 10K sterling pounds. Take a look, it will make sense what boat I was ready to fit me in. However, I’m really not going to ignore your advice on the size. The only reason I changed my mind about Irwin 37
CC is poor production quality. They are budget boats, which is generally not bad. However, I want to sail, I’m OK to do repairs as far as they are related to electricity, electronics or plumbing. But I can’t paint (nice), I can’t do woodwork (any). So, after some thinking, I came to a conclusion that if something go wrong with Irwin, I will be in trouble. Another side of Irwin 37 is the fact that it was designed as costal cruiser. Shoal draft doesn’t give you a good tacking angle and capsize ratio. Centerboard improves tacking angle, but centerboard isn’t a thing I want to have on my boat. It is quite complex system in one of the most important areas. Just matter of trust. Another thing I really enjoy about Freedoms is free standing mast. Maaan… It is actually a miracle! It is extremely simple comparing to the traditional rig. Besides that it is self-depowering, which is very good if you got a gust while
taking a nap on a singlehanded passage. Besides that it contains much less parts, which significantly increasing fault tolerance of the entire system. The only problem about Freedom masts I slightly worried about is lightening strike. So, after about 30 years or so, Mr Hoyt caught me (or whose is the idea of Freedoms) - I want a smaller, but a better built boat. That is why I think about Freedom. The thing I worried about with Freedoms is balsa core. I dislike it and will be very thankful for any input on this subject. Re daughter. Well… If she wants a better yacht she (as she will grow up) is free to find a boy-friend with better and bigger boat. LOL To understand the joke, take a look at a world map and try to find Moldova, it is a “grape” squeezed in between of Romania and Ukraine, 20 miles north of the north-west corner of the Black Sea. No coastline at all! Just a few lakes, biggest one is a
triangle (1x4 nm), where I took my first sailing classes on a Laser boat. Biggest yacht is a 22 feeter, old micro class “racer”. With a 32 feeter her daddy will be the coolest guy in the country. LOL If you are reading this line - know that I’m really thankful to you for your patience!

Posted by ron barr (rwhb@…>)


F32 Hoyt & Mull are two very different boats. I know one Hoyt
32 at least that has made 4 transatlantics.

Ron
Newport RI



From:
FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Fargo Rousseau
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 10:06 PM
To: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Re: Looking for a F32

\




Alex:

I fully understand your motivation to buy here on the east coast of the
USA. Our dollar is very cheap now and our market is flooded with boats
for sale including a few good Freedoms.

I would feel better about recommending an F32 (Hoyt or Mull which is available
as a 30 or 32…same boat, different transom) if you were going to ship
it to Europe. My opinion, after a year and more than 6,000 km in a Mull
30, is that it is not a good Atlantic crossing boat. It is, however, a
wonderful boat to live on. The Hoyt 32 will feel wider and more solid,
and may have some Atlantic crossing experience…???

The F33, which was designed in the Hoyt era, is still the best choice in this
size range as far as I can see. Sails are small, rig is divided, hull and rig
very well proven at sea…but they are all older boats here.

If you want to stay with Freedom, then you might look at the F36. With
your rate of exchange, this would look like a F32 looks to us on cost. A
very roomy boat, heavier than all other Freedoms up to 35 feet, and very nice
feeling below. Lots of privacy in the aft double bunk…behind a closed
door. Take a look.

You might give shipping some deep thought. Sailing to Europe has much
expense involved…uncertain timing…and lots of wear and tear on the boat
and you and your relationship…

Best to you.
Fargo
Will send some great pictures of our F30/32 if you send me your email address.

Alex_lp <alex.puritche@…> wrote:



I will start from the end…

I am still not clear about where you want to buy your boat.
In meanings of continents - in the USA. Reasons are:

  1. I earn dollars, dollar is weak now, buying something in Europe
    makes no sense, because prices are higher in plain numbers than in the
    USA, add here 1:1.5 Euro:USD ratio, you will get the point.
  2. in Turkey, 12-15 years old 30 feeter (all years in charter
    business, read as - totaled) costs about $45K (~30K Euro) - the price
    of the really perfect F30 Al is selling now.
  3. I don’t want a “mainstream boat” (by “mainstream boat” I
    mean
    modern paper-thin boats designer for winds up to 20 knots in
    Mediterranean and produced mainly for charter business). I attended
    sailing courses at a RYA sailing school 3 times past 18 months. Sailed
    3 different boats (Jeanneau Oceanis 343, Dufour 41 Classic, Jeanneau
    Oceanis 390), none of them I’d consider to buy. Tacking angle of 110
    degrees + 10 degrees of drift is something I really want to stay off.

Location in the USA.
East coast, because area of intended boat use is East Mediterranean.
How I will get boat there is still a question. If I find a good
skipper my wife can trust, I will sail, another option is to hire a
deliverer, another option (I really think about) is Ro-Ro.
So, a very nice Freedom I can afford can be located in virtually any
part of the East cost. However, I’m really interested in any 28-32
Freedoms for sale located in Florida. I remotely work for a company
located in Coral Springs, Florida. My boss knows my desire to sail and
promised to help buy a boat. So, it is really unresonable to refuse
his help.

So, bottom line on location. Florida boats go first, bargain deals -
any other states of East Coast.

Re size
My last sailing course on 40 feeter was a bit atypical. I was sailing
40 feeter for a week (costal sailing) single handed. I had my family
aboard and sailing instructor. Idea of the training was to train my
family (long story) and to train me on single handling. I had ~325
sq.f. of Main and ~650 sq.f. of Genoa… Well… It is very hard work,
and that school boat hadn’t self-tailing winches. I felt like a slave
on the galleys.
Lesson I learned by heart - big boats are very difficult to handle. It
can be not that difficult on ocean passages, but on costal sailing
along mountains, where wind direction and force changes 8-10-15 times
per day, you call for troubles. And I want to enjoy it…
You can find a boat I was near to buy 20 days ago. It is Aloa 27, in
Turkey, for 10K sterling pounds. Take a look, it will make sense what
boat I was ready to fit me in.

However, I’m really not going to ignore your advice on the size. The
only reason I changed my mind about Irwin 37 CC is poor production
quality. They are budget boats, which is generally not bad. However, I
want to sail, I’m OK to do repairs as far as they are related to
electricity, electronics or plumbing. But I can’t paint (nice), I
can’t do woodwork (any). So, after some thinking, I came to a
conclusion that if something go wrong with Irwin, I will be in
trouble. Another side of Irwin 37 is the fact that it was designed as
costal cruiser. Shoal draft doesn’t give you a good tacking angle and
capsize ratio. Centerboard improves tacking angle, but centerboard
isn’t a thing I want to have on my boat. It is quite complex system in
one of the most important areas. Just matter of trust.

Another thing I really enjoy about Freedoms is free standing mast.
Maaan… It is actually a miracle! It is extremely simple comparing to
the traditional rig. Besides that it is self-depowering, which is very
good if you got a gust while taking a nap on a singlehanded passage.
Besides that it contains much less parts, which significantly
increasing fault tolerance of the entire system. The only problem
about Freedom masts I slightly worried about is lightening strike.

So, after about 30 years or so, Mr Hoyt caught me (or whose is the
idea of Freedoms) - I want a smaller, but a better built boat. That is
why I think about Freedom.

The thing I worried about with Freedoms is balsa core. I dislike it
and will be very thankful for any input on this subject.

Re daughter.
Well… If she wants a better yacht she (as she will grow up) is free
to find a boy-friend with better and bigger boat. LOL
To understand the joke, take a look at a world map and try to find
Moldova, it is a “grape” squeezed in between of Romania and Ukraine,
20 miles north of the north-west corner of the Black Sea. No coastline
at all! Just a few lakes, biggest one is a triangle (1x4 nm), where I
took my first sailing classes on a Laser boat. Biggest yacht is a 22
feeter, old micro class “racer”. With a 32 feeter her daddy will be
the coolest guy in the country. LOL

If you are reading this line - know that I’m really thankful to you
for your patience!


\



\

Posted by Alex_lp (alex.puritche@…>)

Hello, Fargo!

I may reconsider size as I will get more information, but any growth
of the budget pushes me off 2008 sailing season, I will not be able to
ship/deliver her to Europe because of insufficient funds, so I will
own a boat which stays in an American marina and waits until I will
make some more $$. In this case better do not buy anything, waiting
while I get funds for better and bigger boat, like I did previous year
or 2 years ago… It may grow into a habit and next years I will find
a better boat I have no money for.

Thank you very much for pictures, my email is alex.puritche@…

Thank you!
Alex

Posted by Jacqui Macconnell (jacimac@…>)

Hello Alex,
welcome.

How wonderful to read your humorous letters. The FOG (Freedom Owners
Group) chat list is a constant source of information and
entertainment. Thank you for adding some of both. It is also very
cool to see people from other continents developing an (at first)
academic interest in these amazing boats, and showing up here to ask
questions. Nothing like some other deeply thoughtful person writing
in a few years later to ratify the purchase I, and others here, have
already made!

On cold days, or days when the wind won’t blow, or days when the boat
is (still) in the yard and on the hard, we remember happily
why this is the best possible boat for us anyway, and slyly try to
get others to join our parade. Hurray.

Yes, they are good good boats. They are no longer made. Something
about too expensive to construct these days at same high standards
and routinely find willing buyers. Before ceasing production
officially, the company kept them up on their website as
a “custom-build” option for a few years. “We’ll make you one from
scratch.” Don’t know how many families took them up on that, but
the company finally stopped that, too.

I don’t know if you know that they were made to Llyod’s of London
insurance standards? Also an American shipping standard. ABS?
The older these now not-in-construction beauties get, the better
value I believe they are. For some very interesting background, read
Ferenc Mate’s chapter on Freedoms in his book, “The World’s Best
Sailboats.” If you can’t find it, perhaps someone on the FOG can scan
it and ship it to you as a pdf.

I began looking for my very own boat in about 1990. Started with an
Erickson 27. Fell thru, the engine spewed oil. Good thing.
Would have been too small. Went to Juneau, Alaska and had the
privilege of riding along with Chris and Heather Stockard in
a race on their well-found Freedom 32, Legacy. One of the Hoyt wide-
body 32’s. Deep draft. Absolutely love those. They had even sailed
her up among the glaciers.

I wanted a Freedom, but couldn’t buy one for a long long time. Looked
next at Cal’s designed by a fine racer and sailor, William Lapworth.
Great boats for the price. Lower then and now than Freedoms. My
favorite is the Cal 33. They didn’t make very many, but
it is a fine mix between “can sleep several” and, “can go like scoot
while still being somewhat short-handed.” The Cals built in the
early through late 1970’s, and designed by Mr. Lapworth, are very
good boats for the money, and still regarded in racing circles. The
Cal 40’s still compete routinely in the Transpacific race.
(Transpac.) They also have a very helpful and active chat list. While
you must do typical sail handling, they are solid fiberglass below
the water line, and overbuilt. In that the ultimate strength of
fiberglass was not yet known. If you can’t get over your concerns
about balsa cored boats, consider writing also to the Cal list, and
exploring some of those good boats. There are many types and they are
affordable.

I looked at some of the other marques and models you have mentioned,
too. Including the Irwin 37. When I was finally fortunate to have
heard I’d won a long lawsuit, and saw a well-priced Freedom 36/38 in
Seattle, all in the same week, I finally chose my boat in in August
2003. I had never been aboard or sailed one of these, but the time
and price were right, and I had great faith in the company. I came
home to tell the 17 year old, and he said, “yeah, right Mom, you’ve
been looking at boats since I was four…”

She is deep drafted, and I live up north of Seattle near the San Juan
Islands. She is absolutely perfect for where I am and how we use her.
Once in awhile, when the winds are strong, we race her, too. And many
times, we win. Summer light winds, we don’t bother.
She does so many things well that my friends laugh and say “you seem
to think she can do anything”. Well, so far, very good!

She keeps myself and my family incredibly safe. She has great space
for entertaining. Like the Hoyt F32, she also has greatly separated
sleeping quarters for cruising. She is a breeze to sail, and I have a
photo of a two year old baby girl, standing on the cockpit cushion,
with one hand on the wheel, looking away seaward, handling the boat
under full sail on a grand day, while the seven adults drank their
beers. This my youngest helm so far, but what a brilliantly conceived
and constructed sail concept she proves the boat is. Believe she may
have still been in diapers. Little Rosalie.

I used to think that my “real” sailing friends would be bored with
such a simple rig. I knew it was what I wanted and needed
ever since I’d ridden along with the Stockards years back up in
Alaska. But what about friends down here who were used
to typical rigs and all the work associated? My primary race crew
members are long term competitors, they love her too. So,
it’s all good.

One of the most impressive things she’s done for me so far is self
adjust to a big wind bump on an unsuspecting summer day.
We were moving merrily along with a new hand at the wheel. Perfect
day. Sunny, warm (that’s rare up here), my minister and
I up on the bow barefoot, pretending we were heiresses, and suddenly
got hit by ten more knots. I would guess we were at
about thirty knots total.

I motioned back at the young grad student on the wheel to turn it, he
did. I was new. Sadly, I motioned to him precisely the
wrong direction. Overpowered? A bit. A lot. I carefully crawled over
the cabin house, significantly heeled, back to the cockpit,
and corrected as should have been.

Here’s what’s amazing: in that wind, and a completely wrong rudder,
the boat merely laid over deep, once, and kept moving.
It was a though she had found a new rail below the water to lock
onto. There was no wobbling, no hunting, no shuddering,
just one sound dramatic adjustment. And though I was in a high state
of adrenalin creeping back heeled sideways toward the cockpit, there
was also not even any blue water coming through the toe rails. How
can this be?

Over dinner later my two new-to-sailing guests, the Reverend and the
grad student, said “gosh, we didn’t know you were even concerned at
all, we just thought you looked awfully intense…” Say howdy.

So, I won’t do that again, but I am proud to know the boat is
engineered well beyond what I ever thought she was. I believe they
all are. And it makes me feel like, as long as I keep learning and am
respectful of the sea and weather, she will please us at
anchor or in crossings. Should I ever get that far.

Your concerns about the balsa core below decks are valid, and you
should definitely get a dry boat or be prepared for a
whole lot of work. It is possible to do it, but, yikes. This chat
list has lots of helpful advice from folks who have made those
corrections, or still are doing so. There is another caution, and
that is hull blisters. Believe the resins in the lay up were changed
after a certain year of production of Freedoms, and that the “newer”
Freedoms don’t have those issues. Not certain all older ones
are even subject to them, but be mindful about that, too. Others on
this list have lots to help on this subject.

If the Punta Gorda deep-drafted Hoyt F32 meets your soundness and
cost needs, she’d be a wonderful boat, and deserves being adopted.
Very best wishes, and keep us informed.


Jacqui MacConnell
Bellingham, Washington State,
USA

aka
Captain Jac,
SPARROW
1986 F36/38
hull no. 48

They also careen for hull scraping quite willingly.
But I don’t recommend it as a typical procedure,
and this wasn’t.

Attachment: (image/jpeg) DSCN0736.jpg [not stored]

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Posted by Alex_lp (alex.puritche@…>)

Wow…! It is not a reply in an internet chat, it is a foreword to a
novel!

Good afternoon, Cap…!



“Business” first.

One of my friends bought a Cal 34 (MK III, I think) this year and have
sailed to Azores. You can find some photos of the journey here
http://picasaweb.google.ru/druzhinin/dOXJFC (he wears glasses).
So I know something about Cals, but they have sort of problem, not a
real problem, but… Fargo has an opinion that F32 doesn’t provide
enough privacy, because aft and forward cabins are too close one to
another. Take a look at Cal’s 34 interior layout… Or… Better…
Can you tell me what is the standing height in the aft cabin of Cal
34… :slight_smile:
Yeah, no aft cabin at all, so problem of F32’s aft cabin little
privacy is successfully resolved by its complete absence.

The same applies to Pearson boats. They are not bad at all. Very solid
boats. My laziness didn’t allow me to find out at what size they have
aft cabin, but I know that they don’t have one on 36 feeter.

Re Lloyd
No. I didn’t know it. But… I don’t know how good “old” Lloyd
comparing to “nowadays” one. “Nowadays” Lloyd issued certificates to
majority of “mainstream boats” including to say Hanse. Have you had a
chance to see how they make cleats? If you hadn’t - don’t do it, you
may have nightmares. They glue cleats to the deck. I don’t know what
to do - to roll on the floor laughing or to cry…? Have you had a
chance to see diameter of the standing rig on Bavaria boats? Have you
had a chance… Have you had a chance… Have you had a chance… Most
of them are Lloyd certified, at least, all of them are CE certified.
I prefer to listen what people say. Time to time people say wrong
things, but human sense helps to improve “signal-to-noise ratio”.

Re high prices for quality boats
Do you know how much new “empty” (standard supply, no options)
Hallberg Rassy 31 costs? 110K Euro, which is about $165K. And price
jumps straight to 140K Euro ($210K) once you add typical (but factory
optional) equipment. Don’t forget to apply VAT after that.
There are still lots of people in the world who want smaller but
better built boat. I know at least 2 men (members of another forum)
who sold their 40+ feet long Beneteau (of course, for the half of the
factory price) and bought smaller HRs.
So. Yes, Freedoms are no longer in production. But this decision
definitely is not self-evident.



Fun after.
Re humorous.
Who told? I’m not a humorous person! If you go there
http://forum.md/Album.aspx?id=679 you will find out that I’m quite
gloomy and pessimistic guy!

Posted by sgaber@…> (sgaber@…>)

Alex"

have you checked out what it costs to store a boat in marnas in the USA lately?

It’s getting more expensive every month. Many marinas have been replaced by
condos or converted to “condo marinas” where the slips are sold as property for
a lot more than I could afford.

My slip rental on the central Gulf Coast of Florida went from $100 per month in
1998 to over $300 in 2007. That was not a prblem. But the previous owner sold
the marina to a guy who kicked out all the slip renters, some of whom lived on
their boats there for 15 years, and built a huge, ugly High & Dry.

So affordable slips are becoming increasingly scarce. Marinas that will allow
boat owners to do some of their own work are even more scarce. At some point.
only the extremely wealthy wil be able to own boats and kep them at marinas or
theire condo slips.

I was fortunate to have a co-worker who owns a waterfront house in a bayou off
Tampa Bay. She lets me keep my boat there for $150/month. Sure, it’s vhreape,
but previously I was able to drive to my boat only 9 miles away and sail in the
Gulf of Mexico and a beautiful sheltered area of barrier islands. Now I have to
drive 35 miles and through the traffic of downtown St. Petersburg, get my boat
out of a very difficult slip with lots of current, squeeze through a very narrow
channel and sail in Tampa Bay, which is o.k., but not nearly as pretty as my
previous sailing area.

I guess I should stop copmplaining. Many people would think sailing in Tampa Bay
was heaven. And it is, compared to some places. But I allowed myself to become
complacent and lazy, I guess. People are resistant to change.

I ignored one of my maxims: Adapt, migrate or die. I migrated, but am having
some difficulty adapting.

Now I’m looking for a centerboard Freedom 33 to sail in our shallow waters.

Steve Gaber
Sanderling, 1967 C-31 #77
Oldsmar, FL


---- Alex_lp <alex.puritche@…> wrote:

Hello, Fargo!

I may reconsider size as I will get more information, but any growth
of the budget pushes me off 2008 sailing season, I will not be able to
ship/deliver her to Europe because of insufficient funds, so I will
own a boat which stays in an American marina and waits until I will
make some more $$. In this case better do not buy anything, waiting
while I get funds for better and bigger boat, like I did previous year
or 2 years ago… It may grow into a habit and next years I will find
a better boat I have no money for.

Thank you very much for pictures, my email is alex.puritche@…

Thank you!
Alex

Posted by Medium Al (hjulbyhavn@…>)

You are too big for a Mull 30/32. I walked away from a squeeke clean
one owner boat last summer because it was too small for guys our size.
You would have to take the doors of the Vberth and wake your partner
up to get out every time.

No house for the teenybopper in the F33H - There has been F39
pilothouses for under 100 grand though. The 36Mull mnight work.