Mast base making loud creaking noise?

Archives
1

Posted by Nhat Khong (nhatkhong1@…>)

Hello group,

I own a ´87´ Freedom 36 sloop. I do not know when the problem
started happening but recently I noticed that the base of my mast is
making loud creaking noise in choppy seas when the mast is really be
forced from side to side. It sounds as if the mast is scooting back
and forth at the mast base. The sound sends a vibration clank thru
out the boat. I have since tighten the thru bolt at the base of the
mast; which has helped a tiny bit.

Now my question is. Is this “normal”? or should I be concern? Is it
serious? has anyone else experienced this?

I am in the midst of cruising from Los Angeles to New Orleans via
the Panama and is currently in Puerto Vallarta. Repairs will be
much more difficult here. Anyone have a solution for this?

Thanks,
-Nhat Khong
“Evening Sky”

2

Posted by Al Lorman (ajl@…>)


Might
it be cables in the mast banging around? You should be able to see if the mast
is moving at the base (I’m assuming that you’re not single-handing).
If you can’t see it moving, then I suspect it is the cables. I know they’re
noisy in my former Freedom.



From:
FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Nhat Khong
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 6:13 PM
To: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Mast base making loud creaking noise?

\




Hello group,

I own a ´87´ Freedom 36 sloop. I do not know when the problem
started happening but recently I noticed that the base of my mast is
making loud creaking noise in choppy seas when the mast is really be
forced from side to side. It sounds as if the mast is scooting back
and forth at the mast base. The sound sends a vibration clank thru
out the boat. I have since tighten the thru bolt at the base of the
mast; which has helped a tiny bit.

Now my question is. Is this “normal”? or should I be concern? Is it
serious? has anyone else experienced this?

I am in the midst of cruising from Los Angeles to New Orleans via
the Panama and is currently in Puerto Vallarta. Repairs will be
much more difficult here. Anyone have a solution for this?

Thanks,
-Nhat Khong
“Evening Sky”


\

3

Posted by Alan Kusinitz (akusinitz@…>)


I am not directly familiar with the 36.
However on my 33 I faced similar issues. There are many postings about this on
the old board and maybe some are also on this board.

On my 33 there are 2 holes in the mast
step and the mast through which bolts go. There is thread on the aluminum step
and the bolt thread is ground down where it goes through the mast hole (so it’s
a pin).

When I unstepped the masts I found that
the holes in the masts had become oval from abrasion. This allowed the masts to
rotate in rough seas on certain points of sail. This abraded the base of the
mast a little. It can also abrade the mast at the deck collar if that is not
wedged well or does have spartite or similar to prevent the mast touching the
collar at the deck.

Step one would be to add more wedges at
the base of the mast (hard rubber, wood, whatever you have on hand) and see if
that works at least temporarily. If not you could you plastic bags between the
mast and collar and pour some epoxy in and let it harden (the plastic keeps the
epoxy from gluing the mast in place). Also check the deck collar as well.

In my case I worked with the masts out of
the boat. I added fiberglass cloth and epoxy on the inside of the base of the
mast about ¼” thick. Then redrilled the holes for the bolts/pins. I had
new bolts/pins made and drilled and threaded new holes in the aluminum step
collars since the mast movement had also damaged the threading there. The extra
fiberglass gives the pin a thicker area to rest on.

I also had some stainless collars made by
Garhauer in two pieces (so they could be put in with the masts in place if
needed). I clamp these to the masts and then run turnbuckles from their ends
(one on each side) to strong points. On my main mast the clamp is just under
the deck so it also prevents the mast from raising up and the strong points are
large stainless wichard 5/16” eye nuts on bolts for the bow cleats (one
stbd one port). By tensioning the turnbuckles this prevents mast rotation.

So far my approach has worked well. (I
also spartited between the masts and deck collars above the cabin – I still
use the original synthetic rings below that.

Personally I believe this is the most
likely thing that could lead to mast failure.

I should also note that the yard that step
the masts the first year I owned the boats (where they also stepped masts for a
number of Freedom 36s and are familiar with Freedoms) put no wedges in at the
mast step nor at the cabin top. They did put in the original synthetic ring at
the deck and the pins at the base. When I tried just to add wedges to resolve
my problem that didn’t resolve it although it did reduce the problem.

Alan F-33 Hull #51 1982 SEAPR





From:
FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Al Lorman
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008
6:18 PM
To:
FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [FreedomOwnersGroup]
Mast base making loud creaking noise?





Might it be cables in the mast banging around? You should
be able to see if the mast is moving at the base (I’m assuming that
you’re not single-handing). If you can’t see it moving,
then I suspect it is the cables. I know they’re noisy in my former
Freedom.



From: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nhat Khong
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008
6:13 PM
To: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FreedomOwnersGroup]
Mast base making loud creaking noise?

\




Hello
group,

I own a ´87´ Freedom 36 sloop. I do not know when the problem
started happening but recently I noticed that the base of my mast is
making loud creaking noise in choppy seas when the mast is really be
forced from side to side. It sounds as if the mast is scooting back
and forth at the mast base. The sound sends a vibration clank thru
out the boat. I have since tighten the thru bolt at the base of the
mast; which has helped a tiny bit.

Now my question is. Is this “normal”? or should I be concern? Is it
serious? has anyone else experienced this?

I am in the midst of cruising from Los Angeles
to New Orleans via
the Panama and is currently
in Puerto Vallarta.
Repairs will be
much more difficult here. Anyone have a solution for this?

Thanks,
-Nhat Khong
“Evening Sky”





\

4

Posted by Marno (marno@…>)

I found that the inside of my mast had worn a little allowing the mast to move on its step. I plan to pull it shortly, glass around it and drop the (waxed) mast back on while the epoxy is still wet. Hopefully this will fix the problem.
Regards
Marno
Attitudes
Freedom 39 Cat Ketch



From: Nhat Khong
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 11:13 PM
To: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Mast base making loud creaking noise?


Hello group,I own a ´87´ Freedom 36 sloop. I do not know when the problem started happening but recently I noticed that the base of my mast is making loud creaking noise in choppy seas when the mast is really be forced from side to side. It sounds as if the mast is scooting back and forth at the mast base. The sound sends a vibration clank thru out the boat. I have since tighten the thru bolt at the base of the mast; which has helped a tiny bit.Now my question is. Is this “normal”? or should I be concern? Is it serious? has anyone else experienced this?I am in the midst of cruising from Los Angeles to New Orleans via the Panama and is currently in Puerto Vallarta. Repairs will be much more difficult here. Anyone have a solution for this?Thanks,-Nhat Khong"Evening Sky"


No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.8/1236 - Release Date: 21/01/2008 8:23 PM

5

Posted by wink50109 (jlittle@…>)

I’ve heard the same sound for many years on my 39 Express. The first
time I noticed it was out in the Atlantic, while on the Around Long
Island Race. A scary noise at the time. After the crew and I
investigated [no mast movement] we decided it must be the cables or
halyards inside the mast.
After 15 years of owning Wink nothing has broken.

6

Posted by Rees Midgley (rmidgley@…>)
I own a 1986 36/38 with a similar sound. I tracked it down to movement of the walls of the head next to the mast, not the mast itself. I plan to try to reduce the scraping with some 5200 knifed into the crack at the base of the walls. - ReesOn Jan 24, 2008, at 7:13 PM, Nhat Khong wrote:Hello group,I own a ´87´ Freedom 36 sloop. I do not know when the problem started happening but recently I noticed that the base of my mast is making loud creaking noise in choppy seas when the mast is really be forced from side to side. It sounds as if the mast is scooting back and forth at the mast base. The sound sends a vibration clank thru out the boat. I have since tighten the thru bolt at the base of the mast; which has helped a tiny bit.Now my question is. Is this “normal”? or should I be concern? Is it serious? has anyone else experienced this?I am in the midst of cruising from Los Angeles to New Orleans via the Panama and is currently in Puerto Vallarta. Repairs will be much more difficult here. Anyone have a solution for this?Thanks,-Nhat Khong"Evening Sky"

7

Posted by sgaber@…> (sgaber@…>)

Nhat:

I am not familiar with the anatomy of Freedom cat ketches. What do the mast
partners look like at the deck? Chocks? Wooden wedges? Are they secure?

What does the mast step inside the boat look like? Can you have somebody sail
the boat while you are looking and listening to at the base of the mast? Can you
actually see it moving?

Steve Gaber
Sanderling, 1967 C-31 #77
Oldsmar, FL


---- Nhat Khong <nhatkhong1@…> wrote:

Hello group,

I own a ´87´ Freedom 36 sloop. I do not know when the problem
started happening but recently I noticed that the base of my mast is
making loud creaking noise in choppy seas when the mast is really be
forced from side to side. It sounds as if the mast is scooting back
and forth at the mast base. The sound sends a vibration clank thru
out the boat. I have since tighten the thru bolt at the base of the
mast; which has helped a tiny bit.

Now my question is. Is this “normal”? or should I be concern? Is it
serious? has anyone else experienced this?

I am in the midst of cruising from Los Angeles to New Orleans via
the Panama and is currently in Puerto Vallarta. Repairs will be
much more difficult here. Anyone have a solution for this?

Thanks,
-Nhat Khong
“Evening Sky”

–

8

Posted by Rees Midgley (rmidgley@…>)
We experienced the creaking at anchor in rolling seas while trying to sleep in the fore V berth, right beside the mast. While the sound seems to come from the mast-step junction, it actually came from the wall of the almost adjoining head. - ReesOn Jan 24, 2008, at 10:29 PM, <sgaber@…> <sgaber@…> wrote:Nhat:I am not familiar with the anatomy of Freedom cat ketches. What do the mast partners look like at the deck? Chocks? Wooden wedges? Are they secure?What does the mast step inside the boat look like? Can you have somebody sail the boat while you are looking and listening to at the base of the mast? Can you actually see it moving?Steve GaberSanderling, 1967 C-31 #77Oldsmar, FL---- Nhat Khong <nhatkhong1@yahoo.com> wrote: > Hello group,> > I own a ´87´ Freedom 36 sloop. I do not know when the problem > started happening but recently I noticed that the base of my mast is > making loud creaking noise in choppy seas when the mast is really be > forced from side to side. It sounds as if the mast is scooting back > and forth at the mast base. The sound sends a vibration clank thru > out the boat. I have since tighten the thru bolt at the base of the > mast; which has helped a tiny bit.> > Now my question is. Is this “normal”? or should I be concern? Is it > serious? has anyone else experienced this?> > I am in the midst of cruising from Los Angeles to New Orleans via > the Panama and is currently in Puerto Vallarta. Repairs will be > much more difficult here. Anyone have a solution for this?> > Thanks,> -Nhat Khong> “Evening Sky”> > > –

9

Posted by sgaber@…> (sgaber@…>)

So that bulkhead is not atached to the liner and is moving? Can you put a
couple pof layers of fiberglass tape over the joint to stabilize it? If you did
a neat job and faired it into the surrounding structures, you could paint the
head and it wouldn’t look too bad, but would be much stronger.

Coming from the Columbia culture, where the boats are much older and built with
1960s technology, I don’t know if such a thing is acceptable to this group. We
do things like that all the time. In my case, the result is a stronger but
non-stock boat. Form follows function is my motto.

Steve Gaber
Sanderling, 1967 C-31 #77
Oldsmar, FL

---- Rees Midgley <rmidgley@…> wrote:

We experienced the creaking at anchor in rolling seas while trying to
sleep in the fore V berth, right beside the mast. While the sound
seems to come from the mast-step junction, it actually came from the
wall of the almost adjoining head.

- Rees

On Jan 24, 2008, at 10:29 PM, <sgaber@…> <sgaber@…

wrote:

Nhat:

I am not familiar with the anatomy of Freedom cat ketches. What do the
mast partners look like at the deck? Chocks? Wooden wedges? Are they
secure?

What does the mast step inside the boat look like? Can you have
somebody sail the boat while you are looking and listening to at the
base of the mast? Can you actually see it moving?

Steve Gaber
Sanderling, 1967 C-31 #77
Oldsmar, FL

---- Nhat Khong <nhatkhong1@…> wrote:

Hello group,

I own a ´87´ Freedom 36 sloop. I do not know when the problem
started happening but recently I noticed that the base of my mast is
making loud creaking noise in choppy seas when the mast is really be
forced from side to side. It sounds as if the mast is scooting back
and forth at the mast base. The sound sends a vibration clank thru
out the boat. I have since tighten the thru bolt at the base of the
mast; which has helped a tiny bit.

Now my question is. Is this “normal”? or should I be concern? Is it
serious? has anyone else experienced this?

I am in the midst of cruising from Los Angeles to New Orleans via
the Panama and is currently in Puerto Vallarta. Repairs will be
much more difficult here. Anyone have a solution for this?

Thanks,
-Nhat Khong
“Evening Sky”

–

–

10

Posted by lance_ryley (lance_ryley@…>)

Nhat,
on Glory, the PO had creaking and noises from the mast as well. During
a refit at Paul Dennis’s yard, Paul found that the bottom of the mast
was not quite square, which was causing the mast to shift slightly.
They made a laser cut to square up the bottom and the noise went away.

Also, I would use caution if you decide to use wood wedges - they were
never recommended by Freedom or TPI. If you do go that route because of
a lack of other materials, use many wedges so that you can distribute
the compression loads, otherwise you risk crushing the mast tube. Your
best bet is to search the archives here and on the 2003 group for
references to either pourable polyurethane or cutting wedges from
polyurethane block - 76 durometer if memory serves.

Good luck!

Lance

11

Posted by Herman and Gail Schiller (hschiller2@…>)

The Nonsuch 30 has similar problems with the
bulkheads. The charter company I used “solved”
this problem by spraying the bulkhead-hull liner
junctions with furniture wax, which comes in a spray can. Herm

At 09:56 PM 1/24/2008, you wrote:

So that bulkhead is not atached to the liner and
is moving? Can you put a couple pof layers of
fiberglass tape over the joint to stabilize it?
If you did a neat job and faired it into the
surrounding structures, you could paint the head
and it wouldn’t look too bad, but would be much stronger.

Coming from the Columbia culture, where the
boats are much older and built with 1960s
technology, I don’t know if such a thing is
acceptable to this group. We do things like that
all the time. In my case, the result is a
stronger but non-stock boat. Form follows function is my motto.

Steve Gaber
Sanderling, 1967 C-31 #77
Oldsmar, FL

---- Rees Midgley <mailto:rmidgley%40umich.edurmidgley@…> wrote:

We experienced the creaking at anchor in rolling seas while trying to
sleep in the fore V berth, right beside the mast. While the sound
seems to come from the mast-step junction, it actually came from the
wall of the almost adjoining head.

  • Rees

On Jan 24, 2008, at 10:29 PM,
<mailto:sgaber%40tampabay.rr.comsgaber@…>
<mailto:sgaber%40tampabay.rr.comsgaber@…

wrote:

Nhat:

I am not familiar with the anatomy of Freedom cat ketches. What do the
mast partners look like at the deck? Chocks? Wooden wedges? Are they
secure?

What does the mast step inside the boat look like? Can you have
somebody sail the boat while you are looking and listening to at the
base of the mast? Can you actually see it moving?

Steve Gaber
Sanderling, 1967 C-31 #77
Oldsmar, FL

---- Nhat Khong
<mailto:nhatkhong1%40yahoo.comnhatkhong1@…> wrote:

Hello group,

I own a ´87´ Freedom 36 sloop. I do not know when the problem
started happening but recently I noticed that the base of my mast is
making loud creaking noise in choppy seas when the mast is really be
forced from side to side. It sounds as if the mast is scooting back
and forth at the mast base. The sound sends a vibration clank thru
out the boat. I have since tighten the thru bolt at the base of the
mast; which has helped a tiny bit.

Now my question is. Is this “normal”? or should I be concern? Is it
serious? has anyone else experienced this?

I am in the midst of cruising from Los Angeles to New Orleans via
the Panama and is currently in Puerto Vallarta. Repairs will be
much more difficult here. Anyone have a solution for this?

Thanks,
-Nhat Khong
“Evening Sky”

–

–

12

Posted by Rees Midgley (rmidgley@…>)
Did the furniture wax truly solve the problem? I would hate to put wax in the junction and later try to insert an adhesive. - Rees (1986 F36/38)On Jan 25, 2008, at 10:20 AM, Herman and Gail Schiller wrote:The Nonsuch 30 has similar problems with the bulkheads. The charter company I used “solved” this problem by spraying the bulkhead-hull liner junctions with furniture wax, which comes in a spray can. HermAt 09:56 PM 1/24/2008, you wrote:>So that bulkhead is not atached to the liner and >is moving? Can you put a couple pof layers of >fiberglass tape over the joint to stabilize it? >If you did a neat job and faired it into the >surrounding structures, you could paint the head >and it wouldn’t look too bad, but would be much stronger.>>Coming from the Columbia culture, where the >boats are much older and built with 1960s >technology, I don’t know if such a thing is >acceptable to this group. We do things like that >all the time. In my case, the result is a >stronger but non-stock boat. Form follows function is my motto.>>Steve Gaber>Sanderling, 1967 C-31 #77>Oldsmar, FL>>---- Rees Midgley <mailto:rmidgley%40umich.edurmidgley@umich.edu> wrote:> > We experienced the creaking at anchor in rolling seas while trying to> > sleep in the fore V berth, right beside the mast. While the sound> > seems to come from the mast-step junction, it actually came from the> > wall of the almost adjoining head.> >> > - Rees> >> > On Jan 24, 2008, at 10:29 PM, > <mailto:sgaber%40tampabay.rr.comsgaber@tampabay.rr.com> > <mailto:sgaber%40tampabay.rr.comsgaber@tampabay.rr.com> > > wrote:> >> > Nhat:> >> > I am not familiar with the anatomy of Freedom cat ketches. What do the> > mast partners look like at the deck? Chocks? Wooden wedges? Are they> > secure?> >> > What does the mast step inside the boat look like? Can you have> > somebody sail the boat while you are looking and listening to at the> > base of the mast? Can you actually see it moving?> >> > Steve Gaber> > Sanderling, 1967 C-31 #77> > Oldsmar, FL> >> > ---- Nhat Khong > <mailto:nhatkhong1%40yahoo.comnhatkhong1@yahoo.com> wrote:> > > Hello group,> > >> > > I own a ´87´ Freedom 36 sloop. I do not know when the problem> > > started happening but recently I noticed that the base of my mast is> > > making loud creaking noise in choppy seas when the mast is really be> > > forced from side to side. It sounds as if the mast is scooting back> > > and forth at the mast base. The sound sends a vibration clank thru> > > out the boat. I have since tighten the thru bolt at the base of the> > > mast; which has helped a tiny bit.> > >> > > Now my question is. Is this “normal”? or should I be concern? Is it> > > serious? has anyone else experienced this?> > >> > > I am in the midst of cruising from Los Angeles to New Orleans via> > > the Panama and is currently in Puerto Vallarta. Repairs will be> > > much more difficult here. Anyone have a solution for this?> > >> > > Thanks,> > > -Nhat Khong> > > “Evening Sky”> > >> > >> > >> >> > → >> >> >> >>>–>>

13

Posted by Nhat Khong (nhatkhong1@…>)

Hello Lance all other owners that responded,

First off I greatly appreciate all your input. I found Lance’s reply
most accurately describes my situation.

I do have one crew and was able to take a look at the mast base.
Under stressful conditions, even at anchor, when we’re rocking from
side to side the mast moves slightly and rubs against the bottom. It
basically scoots to one side and creates a loud vibrant clank.

I do believe, as Lance pointed out, the starboard side of my mast
base appears to be harder pressed against the floor and is not
square. My question is then will lazer cutting that starboard side
help? does it mean that the mast is really just sitting on the thru
bolt instead of the floor? How does one get a lazer cut done,
especially in Puerto Vallarta of all places anyway :)?

Any ideas for an easy temporary fix that will carry me to the end of
my journey back to the States where I can get it fix? Or maybe just
living with the noise? Any opinions?

My first thought is now to just tighten the thru bolt even harder,
but I fear overtightening it and possibly tearing up the screw
threads.

My last and final choice is just to sit back and enjoy the sun and
some beer and pray to the wind and water gods… I suppose? :slight_smile:

Thanks and please advise,
-Nhat

— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “lance_ryley”
<lance_ryley@…> wrote:

Nhat,
on Glory, the PO had creaking and noises from the mast as well.
During
a refit at Paul Dennis’s yard, Paul found that the bottom of the
mast
was not quite square, which was causing the mast to shift slightly.
They made a laser cut to square up the bottom and the noise went
away.

Also, I would use caution if you decide to use wood wedges - they
were
never recommended by Freedom or TPI. If you do go that route
because of
a lack of other materials, use many wedges so that you can
distribute
the compression loads, otherwise you risk crushing the mast tube.
Your
best bet is to search the archives here and on the 2003 group for
references to either pourable polyurethane or cutting wedges from
polyurethane block - 76 durometer if memory serves.

Good luck!

Lance

14

Posted by Herman and Gail Schiller (hschiller2@…>)

It did for 10 days that we had the charter.
Probably needs renewal from time to time. Herm

At 10:57 AM 1/25/2008, you wrote:

Did the furniture wax truly solve the
problem? I would hate to put wax in the
junction and later try to insert an adhesive.

  • Rees (1986 F36/38)

On Jan 25, 2008, at 10:20 AM, Herman and Gail Schiller wrote:

The Nonsuch 30 has similar problems with the
bulkheads. The charter company I used “solved”
this problem by spraying the bulkhead-hull liner
junctions with furniture wax, which comes in a spray can. Herm

At 09:56 PM 1/24/2008, you wrote:

So that bulkhead is not atached to the liner and
is moving? Can you put a couple pof layers of
fiberglass tape over the joint to stabilize it?
If you did a neat job and faired it into the
surrounding structures, you could paint the head
and it wouldn’t look too bad, but would be much stronger.

Coming from the Columbia culture, where the
boats are much older and built with 1960s
technology, I don’t know if such a thing is
acceptable to this group. We do things like that
all the time. In my case, the result is a
stronger but non-stock boat. Form follows function is my motto.

Steve Gaber
Sanderling, 1967 C-31 #77
Oldsmar, FL

---- Rees Midgley

<<mailto:rmidgleymailto:rmidgley%40umich.edu>mailto:rmidgley%40umich.edurmid
gley@…>

wrote:

We experienced the creaking at anchor in rolling seas while trying to
sleep in the fore V berth, right beside the mast. While the sound
seems to come from the mast-step junction, it actually came from the
wall of the almost adjoining head.

  • Rees

On Jan 24, 2008, at 10:29 PM,

<<mailto:sgabermailto:sgaber%40tampabay.rr.com><mailto:sgaber%40tampabay.rr.co
m>sgaber@…>

<<mailto:sgabermailto:sgaber%40tampabay.rr.com><mailto:sgaber%40tampabay.rr.co
m>sgaber@…

wrote:

Nhat:

I am not familiar with the anatomy of Freedom cat ketches. What do the
mast partners look like at the deck? Chocks? Wooden wedges? Are they
secure?

What does the mast step inside the boat look like? Can you have
somebody sail the boat while you are looking and listening to at the
base of the mast? Can you actually see it moving?

Steve Gaber
Sanderling, 1967 C-31 #77
Oldsmar, FL

---- Nhat Khong

<<mailto:nhatkhong1mailto:nhatkhong1%40yahoo.com><mailto:nhatkhong1%40yahoo.co
m>nhatkhong1@…>

wrote:

Hello group,

I own a ´87´ Freedom 36 sloop. I do not know when the problem
started happening but recently I noticed that the base of my mast is
making loud creaking noise in choppy seas when the mast is really be
forced from side to side. It sounds as if the mast is scooting back
and forth at the mast base. The sound sends a vibration clank thru
out the boat. I have since tighten the thru bolt at the base of the
mast; which has helped a tiny bit.

Now my question is. Is this “normal”? or should I be concern? Is it
serious? has anyone else experienced this?

I am in the midst of cruising from Los Angeles to New Orleans via
the Panama and is currently in Puerto Vallarta. Repairs will be
much more difficult here. Anyone have a solution for this?

Thanks,
-Nhat Khong
“Evening Sky”

–

–

15

Posted by Geoffrey Schultz (geoff.freedom@geoffschultz.org>)

I have a Freedom 40/40, so I don’t know that the construction is the
same. However, on the 40/40 there’s an inverted pie-pan shaped plate
that fits inside of the base of the mast. The problem is that the
inside of the base of the mast has worn and allows the mast to shift on
the pie-plate. If you look at the base of the mast, you’ll probably
see black/dark-gray dust.

To solve this I had the inside of the mast lined with fiberglass and
used the release-coated pie-plate as a mold for the fiberglass. This
completely stopped the creaking.

I will state that I don’t think that this is a safety issue. It’s very
annoying and may keep you awake, but I don’t think that it’s a
structural issue.

– Geoff

16

Posted by katorpus (jrb@…>)

I will respectfully disagree with Geoff in that I feel that it IS
a “structural issue”…and a structural concern. Here’s why:

Each time you get the “clunk” of the mast base sliding to one extreme
or another, you have an equivalent “point loading” impact of the mast
wall against the “chock blocks” at the level of the deck penetration.

It’s really not much different than if you left the wedges and sealant
out (at the deck level) and permitted the mast to “bang” side to side
against the deck collar.

This is a very different force than the pressure which is applied at
the same spot by the forces inducing mast bend and is, in effect, ADDED
to those same forces.

You wouldn’t beat repeatedly against the same spot in your mast with a
ball-peen hammer, but that is, in essence what’s happening here.

Degradation or softening of the mast wall at that place would be the
most critical location for it to occur, and could hasten or induce mast
failure…maybe at a most inopportune time somewhere down the line.

The mast base NEEDS to be anchored firmly. Not only does it prevent the
impact loading, it adds structural rigidity to the entire boat.

— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “Geoffrey Schultz”
<geoff.freedom@…> wrote:

I will state that I don’t think that this is a safety issue. It’s
very
annoying and may keep you awake, but I don’t think that it’s a
structural issue.

– Geoff

17

Posted by katorpus (jrb@…>)

I will respectfully disagree with Geoff in that I feel that it IS
a “structural issue”…and a structural concern. Here’s why:

Each time you get the “clunk” of the mast base sliding to one extreme
or another, you have an equivalent “point loading” impact of the mast
wall against the “chock blocks” at the level of the deck penetration.

It’s really not much different than if you left the wedges and sealant
out (at the deck level) and permitted the mast to “bang” side to side
against the deck collar.

This is a very different force than the pressure which is applied at
the same spot by the forces inducing mast bend and is, in effect, ADDED
to those same forces.

You wouldn’t beat repeatedly against the same spot in your mast with a
ball-peen hammer, but that is, in essence what’s happening here.

Degradation or softening of the mast wall at that place would be the
most critical location for it to occur, and could hasten or induce mast
failure…maybe at a most inopportune time somewhere down the line.

The mast base NEEDS to be anchored firmly. Not only does it prevent the
impact loading, it adds structural rigidity to the entire boat.

— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “Geoffrey Schultz”
<geoff.freedom@…> wrote:

I will state that I don’t think that this is a safety issue. It’s
very
annoying and may keep you awake, but I don’t think that it’s a
structural issue.

– Geoff

18

Posted by michel.capel (michel.capel@…>)

Nhat,

I once used cheap automotive glass fiber filled coachwork filler
putty to keep the mast base from moving in the oversized aluminum
collar at the mast base. If you grease your mast base and the inside
of the collar, the putty won’t stick and you keep a re-usable moon
scythe shaped filler piece.

I suppose they know automotive filler in Mexico; they dent cars
there too, don’t they?

Michel


— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “lance_ryley”
<lance_ryley@…> wrote:

Nhat,
on Glory, the PO had creaking and noises from the mast as well.
During
a refit at Paul Dennis’s yard, Paul found that the bottom of the
mast
was not quite square, which was causing the mast to shift
slightly.
They made a laser cut to square up the bottom and the noise went
away.

Also, I would use caution if you decide to use wood wedges - they
were
never recommended by Freedom or TPI. If you do go that route
because of
a lack of other materials, use many wedges so that you can
distribute
the compression loads, otherwise you risk crushing the mast tube.
Your
best bet is to search the archives here and on the 2003 group for
references to either pourable polyurethane or cutting wedges from
polyurethane block - 76 durometer if memory serves.

Good luck!

Lance

19

Posted by michel.capel (michel.capel@…>)

Nhat,

Perhaps you can fix it yourself by lifting the mast 1’ or so and use
a beltsander to even out the mast base. It will never be perfectly
square, but if you put 2 component polyester automotive filler
inside the mast collar on the floor and sit the mast down on the
soft filler, the filler will harden underneath the spots that don’t
touch the base. That will do, I think. And of course make sure the
mast base is totally locked and doesnt move around inside the
collar. Use polyester filler to do that and put the bolts back in.

good luck,
Michel


— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “Nhat Khong”
<nhatkhong1@…> wrote:

Hello Lance all other owners that responded,

First off I greatly appreciate all your input. I found Lance’s
reply
most accurately describes my situation.

I do have one crew and was able to take a look at the mast base.
Under stressful conditions, even at anchor, when we’re rocking
from
side to side the mast moves slightly and rubs against the bottom.
It
basically scoots to one side and creates a loud vibrant clank.

I do believe, as Lance pointed out, the starboard side of my mast
base appears to be harder pressed against the floor and is not
square. My question is then will lazer cutting that starboard
side
help? does it mean that the mast is really just sitting on the
thru
bolt instead of the floor? How does one get a lazer cut done,
especially in Puerto Vallarta of all places anyway :)?

Any ideas for an easy temporary fix that will carry me to the end
of
my journey back to the States where I can get it fix? Or maybe
just
living with the noise? Any opinions?

My first thought is now to just tighten the thru bolt even harder,
but I fear overtightening it and possibly tearing up the screw
threads.

My last and final choice is just to sit back and enjoy the sun and
some beer and pray to the wind and water gods… I suppose? :slight_smile:

Thanks and please advise,
-Nhat

— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “lance_ryley”
<lance_ryley@> wrote:

Nhat,
on Glory, the PO had creaking and noises from the mast as well.
During
a refit at Paul Dennis’s yard, Paul found that the bottom of the
mast
was not quite square, which was causing the mast to shift
slightly.
They made a laser cut to square up the bottom and the noise went
away.

Also, I would use caution if you decide to use wood wedges -
they
were
never recommended by Freedom or TPI. If you do go that route
because of
a lack of other materials, use many wedges so that you can
distribute
the compression loads, otherwise you risk crushing the mast
tube.
Your
best bet is to search the archives here and on the 2003 group
for
references to either pourable polyurethane or cutting wedges
from
polyurethane block - 76 durometer if memory serves.

Good luck!

Lance

20

Posted by Geoffrey Schultz (geoff.freedom@geoffschultz.org>)

I first experienced this sound while moving my boat from Rhode Island
to the BVIs. To describe this noise as a scary noise is an
understatement. Luckily Dave Balfour was able to put my mind at
ease, but when I first heard it I thought that the mast was cracking
apart.

I put up with the creaking for 2+ years which included doing a
circumnavigation of the Caribbean and finally bringing it back to FL
where I did major equipment upgrades. This was the first place that
I felt secure having the mast pulled and glassing the base of the
mast. While listening to the creaking was unpleasant, nothing bad
happened to the mast and we went through some HEAVY weather. I
mainly heard the creaking at anchor or when motoring without the
sails up. The sails tend to provide enough loading to keep the mast
from moving.

Upon thinking further about intermediate steps that I took to
mitigate the creaking, I took (2) 2x4s and cut a radius which matched
the base of the mast. The 2x4s were wedged between the fiberglass
well that the mast base sits in and the mast. This significantly
reduced the motion.

I will quote the OP “I am in the midst of cruising from Los Angeles
to New Orleans via the Panama and is currently in Puerto Vallarta.
Repairs will be much more difficult here. Anyone have a solution for
this?”

I’ve studied this route as I’ve contemplated doing the reverse route
and know that there’s really nowhere to get this done along the
Pacific coast and there’s no where that I’d suggest between the
Panama Canal and the US. Perhaps in Panama City, but I’ve only been
there briefly after moving a boat through the Canal.

While I agree that the point loading is an issue, my experience is
that it isn’t a critical issue that needs immediate attention given
the authors remote location.

– Geoff

— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “katorpus” <jrb@…> wrote:

I will respectfully disagree with Geoff in that I feel that it IS
a “structural issue”…and a structural concern. Here’s why:

Each time you get the “clunk” of the mast base sliding to one
extreme
or another, you have an equivalent “point loading” impact of the
mast
wall against the “chock blocks” at the level of the deck
penetration.

It’s really not much different than if you left the wedges and
sealant
out (at the deck level) and permitted the mast to “bang” side to
side
against the deck collar.

This is a very different force than the pressure which is applied
at
the same spot by the forces inducing mast bend and is, in effect,
ADDED
to those same forces.

You wouldn’t beat repeatedly against the same spot in your mast
with a
ball-peen hammer, but that is, in essence what’s happening here.

Degradation or softening of the mast wall at that place would be
the
most critical location for it to occur, and could hasten or induce
mast
failure…maybe at a most inopportune time somewhere down the line.

The mast base NEEDS to be anchored firmly. Not only does it prevent
the
impact loading, it adds structural rigidity to the entire boat.

— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “Geoffrey Schultz”
<geoff.freedom@> wrote:

I will state that I don’t think that this is a safety issue.
It’s
very
annoying and may keep you awake, but I don’t think that it’s a
structural issue.

– Geoff