Mast checking

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1

Posted by Randall (crawfordceramics@…>)

Very interesting! I had hesitations about buying my freedom with it’s
black round CF mast. It had so much checking on it that I had visions
of it snapping of on the first sail in a 20k wind. Well on my first
overnight in in I awoke to 20-25k gusts (apparently winds can whip up
pretty quick and with out much warning), it sustained a fairly hard
jibe (inexperienced first mate) and we popped 2 glides out midway up
the sail, and the hardwood wedges that held the mast in position in
the deck popped out, but the stick held fine, we were able to sail in
just fine.
I have questions:
1)has anyone had or heard of one these masts breaking? (under sail)
2)Can these be repaired if they are weakend or broken?
3)has anyone painted these and what type of paint would with stand
the flexing?

— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “lance_ryley”
<lance_ryley@…> wrote:

Bright Star had some cracking in the deck and around parts of the
cockpit coaming. So does Glory. I would imagine that they are
pretty
common in Freedoms since the hulls do flex. The rigs, being
freestanding, provide no rigidity to the hull itself. Also, at
least in
the earlier Freedoms, the gel coat was put on pretty thick at
times.
This too can lead to fine cracks as the hull moves.

I tend to think of ‘spiderweb’ cracks as being associated with an
impact with the gelcoat. If they are truly spiderwebs, you may want
to
check to make sure the underlying glass hasn’t been compromised.

One other thing you may not be aware of are the older, black
Freedom
masts. The putty that they used to protect the outer layer was much
less flexible than the mast itself, and every one of them that I’ve
looked at has had horizontal circumferential cracks. Both surveyors
I
used on Bright Star were aware of the phenomenon, both said that as
long as the internal integrity of the fiber/resin layup hasn’t been
compromised, there was nothing much to worry about except the
cosmetics. Eric Sponberg, who oversaw much of the early mast design
and
construction, recommends grinding off the putty, wrapping another
layer
of glass around the mast, and finishing with awlgrip which is more
flexible. I don’t think too many people have undergone that
expense,
and it’d be hard to show conclusively one way or the other that the
horizontal cracks have ever led to mast failure. Vertical cracks,
however, are another matter entirely.

Lance
— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “Freeman Dodsworth”
<freemandodsworth@> wrote:

All,
Thanks for the great response to my newbie questions. Yet
another: I
am looking at an F32 down in NC (via YW of course) and the broker
reports extensive spider cracks on deck and in the cockpit. He
further states (being a broker after all) that “every Freedom he
has
ver sold had this problem”. After I choke down the 5 pound grain
of
salt required to swallow that remark, the question remains: Is
spider
cracking a problem endemic to Freedoms? Should I expect to see a
lot
of this as I look further? Thanks again for your kind attention.

Freeman

2

Posted by Jay Glen (svfantasy@…>)
Randall,I own “Fantasy”, a 1981 Freedom 40 Cat-Ketch with two black carbon fiber spars. The previous owner replaced the foremast about 4 years ago after losing the mast while sailing back from Mexico. While this mast also had the cosmetic checking (as does my mizzen mast) it was determined that the continual anchoring caused the chain to abrade the lower part of the mast in the anchor locker. Over time, salt water leeched up the layup and caused delamination. It broke off a deck level. It is a rarity for a Freedom to lose a mast. When they do it is usually due to impact (Bridges etc). However, you should make sure your cracking is only cosmetic, call a qualified inspector of carbon masts.
On 10/11/07, Randall <crawfordceramics@…> wrote:




Very interesting! I had hesitations about buying my freedom with it’s
black round CF mast. It had so much checking on it that I had visions
of it snapping of on the first sail in a 20k wind. Well on my first
overnight in in I awoke to 20-25k gusts (apparently winds can whip up
pretty quick and with out much warning), it sustained a fairly hard
jibe (inexperienced first mate) and we popped 2 glides out midway up
the sail, and the hardwood wedges that held the mast in position in
the deck popped out, but the stick held fine, we were able to sail in
just fine.
I have questions:
1)has anyone had or heard of one these masts breaking? (under sail)
2)Can these be repaired if they are weakend or broken?
3)has anyone painted these and what type of paint would with stand
the flexing?

— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “lance_ryley”
<lance_ryley@…> wrote:

Bright Star had some cracking in the deck and around parts of the
cockpit coaming. So does Glory. I would imagine that they are
pretty
common in Freedoms since the hulls do flex. The rigs, being
freestanding, provide no rigidity to the hull itself. Also, at
least in
the earlier Freedoms, the gel coat was put on pretty thick at
times.
This too can lead to fine cracks as the hull moves.

I tend to think of ‘spiderweb’ cracks as being associated with an
impact with the gelcoat. If they are truly spiderwebs, you may want
to
check to make sure the underlying glass hasn’t been compromised.

One other thing you may not be aware of are the older, black
Freedom
masts. The putty that they used to protect the outer layer was much
less flexible than the mast itself, and every one of them that I’ve
looked at has had horizontal circumferential cracks. Both surveyors
I
used on Bright Star were aware of the phenomenon, both said that as
long as the internal integrity of the fiber/resin layup hasn’t been
compromised, there was nothing much to worry about except the
cosmetics. Eric Sponberg, who oversaw much of the early mast design
and
construction, recommends grinding off the putty, wrapping another
layer
of glass around the mast, and finishing with awlgrip which is more
flexible. I don’t think too many people have undergone that
expense,
and it’d be hard to show conclusively one way or the other that the
horizontal cracks have ever led to mast failure. Vertical cracks,
however, are another matter entirely.

Lance
— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “Freeman Dodsworth”
<freemandodsworth@> wrote:

All,
Thanks for the great response to my newbie questions. Yet
another: I
am looking at an F32 down in NC (via YW of course) and the broker
reports extensive spider cracks on deck and in the cockpit. He
further states (being a broker after all) that “every Freedom he
has
ver sold had this problem”. After I choke down the 5 pound grain
of
salt required to swallow that remark, the question remains: Is
spider
cracking a problem endemic to Freedoms? Should I expect to see a
lot
of this as I look further? Thanks again for your kind attention.

Freeman





– Jay Glen ki6jtks/v FantasyFreedom 40 Cat-KetchSan Francisco Bay Area

3

Posted by jerry weinraub (zayde@…>)

!. They are hard to break
2… The wedges should be Polyurethane,not wood. Wood will concentrate
pressure at a point,making failure far more probable.

Randall wrote:

Very interesting! I had hesitations about buying my freedom with it’s
black round CF mast. It had so much checking on it that I had visions
of it snapping of on the first sail in a 20k wind. Well on my first
overnight in in I awoke to 20-25k gusts (apparently winds can whip up
pretty quick and with out much warning), it sustained a fairly hard
jibe (inexperienced first mate) and we popped 2 glides out midway up
the sail, and the hardwood wedges that held the mast in position in
the deck popped out, but the stick held fine, we were able to sail in
just fine.
I have questions:
1)has anyone had or heard of one these masts breaking? (under sail)
2)Can these be repaired if they are weakend or broken?
3)has anyone painted these and what type of paint would with stand
the flexing?

— In FreedomOwnersGroup@ yahoogroups. com
mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup%40yahoogroups.com, “lance_ryley”
<lance_ryley@ …> wrote:

Bright Star had some cracking in the deck and around parts of the
cockpit coaming. So does Glory. I would imagine that they are
pretty
common in Freedoms since the hulls do flex. The rigs, being
freestanding, provide no rigidity to the hull itself. Also, at
least in
the earlier Freedoms, the gel coat was put on pretty thick at
times.
This too can lead to fine cracks as the hull moves.

I tend to think of ‘spiderweb’ cracks as being associated with an
impact with the gelcoat. If they are truly spiderwebs, you may want
to
check to make sure the underlying glass hasn’t been compromised.

One other thing you may not be aware of are the older, black
Freedom
masts. The putty that they used to protect the outer layer was much
less flexible than the mast itself, and every one of them that I’ve
looked at has had horizontal circumferential cracks. Both surveyors
I
used on Bright Star were aware of the phenomenon, both said that as
long as the internal integrity of the fiber/resin layup hasn’t been
compromised, there was nothing much to worry about except the
cosmetics. Eric Sponberg, who oversaw much of the early mast design
and
construction, recommends grinding off the putty, wrapping another
layer
of glass around the mast, and finishing with awlgrip which is more
flexible. I don’t think too many people have undergone that
expense,
and it’d be hard to show conclusively one way or the other that the
horizontal cracks have ever led to mast failure. Vertical cracks,
however, are another matter entirely.

Lance
— In FreedomOwnersGroup@ yahoogroups. com
mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup%40yahoogroups.com, “Freeman Dodsworth”
<freemandodsworth@ > wrote:

All,
Thanks for the great response to my newbie questions. Yet
another: I
am looking at an F32 down in NC (via YW of course) and the broker
reports extensive spider cracks on deck and in the cockpit. He
further states (being a broker after all) that “every Freedom he
has
ver sold had this problem”. After I choke down the 5 pound grain
of
salt required to swallow that remark, the question remains: Is
spider
cracking a problem endemic to Freedoms? Should I expect to see a
lot
of this as I look further? Thanks again for your kind attention.

Freeman

4

Posted by Alan Kusinitz (akusinitz@…>)


If you search the old Freedom2003 yahoo
group you’ll see a lot of postings discussing the masts.
If there are really serious and widespread
cracks in the deck its possible the balsa core rotted through water intrusion
around bad bedding and there is excessive flexing of the deck.
I have two of the black masts on my 1982
F-33 . I’ve done a lot of research and sailed them hard (surfing,
overpowered, larger then usual sails, etc.) and am quite comfortable with their
strength. Mine actually have cutouts in the front side where the gooseneck is
as an access point.
I do have some of the horizontal cracks in
the outer cutting. I’m examined the interior of the masts and they look
pristine with no evidence of cracks.
One area of concern is at the deck collar
and at the mast step. Its important the mast is not allowed to rub on its sides
against the collar as this could eventually abrade enough to weaken it. Some
use wedges others spartite or other pour in products.
The pins/bolts that go in to the bottom of
my mast also abraded the holes for them in the mast which allowed some rotation
of the mast back and forth.
I resolved this since I felt any failure
at the step would allow the mast to abrade or pop out of the step and then
probably break at the deck. In my opinion this is an important area to check at
least on an F-33.
I’ve only heard of a few masts
breaking. The most recent was on an F-44 . It appears it was weakened by a
lightning strike (electronics were ruined and forensic of the mast seemed to
confirm this.
I know of one F-36 who’s mast failed
for the original owner after 2.5 years. TPI/Freedom honored the warrantee and
replaced it and said the problem was that the mast is spliced and instead of a
tapered proper splice an inexperience worker had just butted the two pieces
(pretty amazing it lasted over 2 years so it seems there’s plenty of
margin for error in the design).
Its common to have splices with an inner
tube that the lower and upper parts fit over and the same approach is taken to
repair masts. On my F-33 the masts are one piece.
Alan





From: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Randall
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007
2:56 PM
To: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Mast
checking




Very interesting! I had hesitations about buying my
freedom with it’s
black round CF mast. It had so much checking on it that I had visions
of it snapping of on the first sail in a 20k wind. Well on my first
overnight in in I awoke to 20-25k gusts (apparently winds can whip up
pretty quick and with out much warning), it sustained a fairly hard
jibe (inexperienced first mate) and we popped 2 glides out midway up
the sail, and the hardwood wedges that held the mast in position in
the deck popped out, but the stick held fine, we were able to sail in
just fine.
I have questions:
1)has anyone had or heard of one these masts breaking? (under sail)
2)Can these be repaired if they are weakend or broken?
3)has anyone painted these and what type of paint would with stand
the flexing?

— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com,
“lance_ryley”
<lance_ryley@…> wrote:

Bright Star had some cracking in the deck and around parts of the
cockpit coaming. So does Glory. I would imagine that they are
pretty
common in Freedoms since the hulls do flex. The rigs, being
freestanding, provide no rigidity to the hull itself. Also, at
least in
the earlier Freedoms, the gel coat was put on pretty thick at
times.
This too can lead to fine cracks as the hull moves.

I tend to think of ‘spiderweb’ cracks as being associated with an
impact with the gelcoat. If they are truly spiderwebs, you may want
to
check to make sure the underlying glass hasn’t been compromised.

One other thing you may not be aware of are the older, black
Freedom
masts. The putty that they used to protect the outer layer was much
less flexible than the mast itself, and every one of them that I’ve
looked at has had horizontal circumferential cracks. Both surveyors
I
used on Bright Star were aware of the phenomenon, both said that as
long as the internal integrity of the fiber/resin layup hasn’t been
compromised, there was nothing much to worry about except the
cosmetics. Eric Sponberg, who oversaw much of the early mast design
and
construction, recommends grinding off the putty, wrapping another
layer
of glass around the mast, and finishing with awlgrip which is more
flexible. I don’t think too many people have undergone that
expense,
and it’d be hard to show conclusively one way or the other that the
horizontal cracks have ever led to mast failure. Vertical cracks,
however, are another matter entirely.

Lance
— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com,
“Freeman Dodsworth”
<freemandodsworth@> wrote:

All,
Thanks for the great response to my newbie questions. Yet
another: I
am looking at an F32 down in NC (via YW of course) and the broker
reports extensive spider cracks on deck and in the cockpit. He
further states (being a broker after all) that "every Freedom he

has

ver sold had this problem". After I choke down the 5 pound grain

of

salt required to swallow that remark, the question remains: Is
spider
cracking a problem endemic to Freedoms? Should I expect to see a
lot
of this as I look further? Thanks again for your kind attention.

Freeman


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