Mast obstructions on F32

Posted by ron barr (rwhb@…>)


When re-wiring our mast after having lost the messenger (no
comment- one gets the help one pays for!), I pushed a long length of illicitly
borrowed rod rigging through and encountered, temporarily, two minor obstructions
en route about 15 feet apart. I occurred to me afterwards that these might be
some kind of light “partitions” for keeping the wiring flopping
around? We had to punch new holes in them of course but was wondering whether
anyone has noticed the same kind of thing? We have the wires wrapped in foam
tubing and I was also thinking of using some foam near the lower end to help
damp any remaining motion and noise in the forward cabin using spray in “Great
Stuff” or similar as far up as I could get it – thoughts anyone?
Thanks.

Ron
Hoyt F32
Newport RI

Posted by Sward (swardfullsail@…>)
Ron, did you take the mast down to do this rewiring? I also had the same problem of the wires letting go into the mast when someone went up for me. He said when he disconnected the wires from the light which he was going to replace for me, the wire broke in his hand and the weight of the wires from the mast dropped. He had a piece in his hand that was left. Isn’t there just a small hole where the wires went into the mast and hard to fish anything out? I would also like to put in a steeming light/fordeck light and it sounds like it is doable, but to rivit it in with epoxy as added strength. Is that what the end result of the conversation was? I had someone wire a new anemometer and he said it was a nightmare running the wires. About 6 or so years ago when I first had the boat, not knowing about not drilling into the mast, I had someone put a folding
mast step on, since it was impossible for me to reach to put the halyard on the sail and zip the cover where the zipper started at the top. Is there something I should do about that or is it too late.ron barr <rwhb@…> wrote: When re-wiring our mast after having lost the messenger (no comment- one gets the help one pays for!), I pushed a long length of illicitly borrowed rod rigging through and encountered, temporarily, two minor obstructions en route about 15 feet
apart. I occurred to me afterwards that these might be some kind of light “partitions” for keeping the wiring flopping around? We had to punch new holes in them of course but was wondering whether anyone has noticed the same kind of thing? We have the wires wrapped in foam tubing and I was also thinking of using some foam near the lower end to help damp any remaining motion and noise in the forward cabin using spray in “Great Stuff” or similar as far up as I could get it – thoughts anyone? Thanks. Ron Hoyt F32 Newport RI “Life is a Reach, then you Jibe” SWARD

Posted by ron barr (rwhb@…>)


The mast is down. A new boat to us so we had it pulled for
checking etc. All kinds of weird releasing material inside dropped out.
Presumably from the original looming.

I love the phrase “it broke in my hand” !!
I’ve heard that somewhere before, could have been the maid. I said
several things when I found my helper had forgotten to attach the messenger.

I would think it difficult to fish anything out of the
bottom exit hole, fairly small – it is possible perhaps with a wire loop/lasso
approximately the ID of the mast but you’d have to get it in and sprung
open somehow. There may be fishing devices that electricians use for this. Worth
checking into.

I have talked to a rigger from Freedom and he expressed no
real concern about drilling the odd hole in the mast. For the steaming/foredeck
light which I am putting in next week I will drill two holes for the mounting
and one larger center hole for the 3 conductor wire. Freedom installed quite a
few of these lights. They used rivets but I plan to drill and use two #8 self
tapping screws.

Ron
Hoyt F32
Newport RI

Post by “Sward” Re:

Ron,
did you take the mast down to do this rewiring? I also had the same problem of
the wires letting go into the mast when someone went up for me. He said when he
disconnected the wires from the light which he was going to replace for me, the
wire broke in his hand and the weight of the wires from the mast dropped. He
had a piece in his hand that was left. Isn’t there just a small hole where the
wires went into the mast and hard to fish anything out?

I would also like to put in a steeming light/fordeck light and it sounds like
it is doable, but to rivit it in with epoxy as added strength. Is that what the
end result of the conversation was?

I had someone wire a new anemometer and he said it was a nightmare running the
wires.

About 6 or so years ago when I first had the boat, not knowing about not
drilling into the mast, I had someone put a folding mast step on, since it was
impossible for me to reach to put the halyard on the sail and zip the cover
where the zipper started at the top. Is there something I should do about that
or is it too late.

\

Posted by Alan Kusinitz (akusinitz@…>)


If you use screws instead of rivets my
understanding is its better to tap/thread the hole then to use self tapping
screws.
Alan





From:
FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ron barr
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 1:25 PM
To:
FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Re:
Mast obstructions on F32





The mast is down.
A new boat to us so we had it pulled for checking etc. All kinds of weird
releasing material inside dropped out. Presumably from the original looming.

I love the phrase
“it broke in my hand” !! I’ve heard that somewhere
before, could have been the maid. I said several things when I found my helper
had forgotten to attach the messenger.

I would think it
difficult to fish anything out of the bottom exit hole, fairly small – it
is possible perhaps with a wire loop/lasso approximately the ID of the mast but
you’d have to get it in and sprung open somehow. There may be fishing
devices that electricians use for this. Worth checking into.

I have talked to a
rigger from Freedom and he expressed no real concern about drilling the odd
hole in the mast. For the steaming/foredeck light which I am putting in next
week I will drill two holes for the mounting and one larger center hole for the
3 conductor wire. Freedom installed quite a few of these lights. They used
rivets but I plan to drill and use two #8 self tapping screws.

Ron
Hoyt F32
Newport RI

Post by
“Sward” Re:

Ron, did
you take the mast down to do this rewiring? I also had the same problem of the
wires letting go into the mast when someone went up for me. He said when he
disconnected the wires from the light which he was going to replace for me, the
wire broke in his hand and the weight of the wires from the mast dropped. He
had a piece in his hand that was left. Isn’t there just a small hole where the
wires went into the mast and hard to fish anything out?

I would also like to put in a steeming light/fordeck light and it sounds like
it is doable, but to rivit it in with epoxy as added strength. Is that what the
end result of the conversation was?

I had someone wire a new anemometer and he said it was a nightmare running the
wires.

About 6 or so years ago when I first had the boat, not knowing about not
drilling into the mast, I had someone put a folding mast step on, since it was
impossible for me to reach to put the halyard on the sail and zip the cover
where the zipper started at the top. Is there something I should do about that
or is it too late.



\



\

Posted by Sward (swardfullsail@…>)
Thanks Ron, How will you snake the wires through? Is any of this possible while the mast is up?ron barr <rwhb@…> wrote: The mast is down. A new boat to us so we had it pulled for checking etc. All kinds of weird releasing material inside dropped out. Presumably from the original looming. I love the phrase “it broke in my hand” !! I’ve heard that somewhere before, could have been the maid. I said several
things when I found my helper had forgotten to attach the messenger. I would think it difficult to fish anything out of the bottom exit hole, fairly small – it is possible perhaps with a wire loop/lasso approximately the ID of the mast but you’d have to get it in and sprung open somehow. There may be fishing devices that electricians use for this. Worth checking into. I have talked to a rigger from Freedom and he expressed no real concern about drilling the odd hole in the mast. For the steaming/foredeck light which I am putting in next week I will drill two holes for the mounting and one larger center hole for the 3 conductor wire. Freedom installed quite a few of these lights. They used rivets but I plan to drill and use two #8 self tapping screws. Ron Hoyt F32 Newport RI Post by “Sward” Re: Ron, did you take the mast down to do this rewiring? I also had the same problem of the wires letting go into the mast when someone went up for me. He said when he disconnected the wires from the light which he was going to replace for me, the wire broke in his hand and the weight of the wires from the mast dropped. He had a piece in his hand that was left. Isn’t there just a small hole where the wires went into the mast and hard to fish anything out?I would also like to put in a steeming
light/fordeck light and it sounds like it is doable, but to rivit it in with epoxy as added strength. Is that what the end result of the conversation was?I had someone wire a new anemometer and he said it was a nightmare running the wires.About 6 or so years ago when I first had the boat, not knowing about not drilling into the mast, I had someone put a folding mast step on, since it was impossible for me to reach to put the halyard on the sail and zip the cover where the zipper started at the top. Is there something I should do about that or is it too late. “Life is a Reach, then you Jibe” SWARD

Posted by katorpus (jrb@…>)

Fishing…

Turn to your tackle store. Get a stiff braided stainless steel wire
leader with a swivel on the end…longer than the circumference of
the mast…

Feed one end of the wire through the swivel (you may have to cut off
a piece of hardware from the other end)

Push the resulting loop into the exit hole in the mast and feed
enough wire through the swivel (which is still OUTSIDE the mast) to
open up the loop inside to the maximum diameter…

When you’re sure you have enough of whatever messenger line is being
trapped to drop below the swivel, lower it into the loop and slowly
pull tight, drawing it out of the hole.

Once you get part of the line out, you can cut off the fishing weight
you used to weight the messenger line and let it drop to the bottom
of the mast (Be sure you cut the RIGHT part of the line and hang on
to what you’ve got.

Do NOT!!! use self tapping screws. You wouldn’t use them to attach
something to a sheet of glass, would you? Same principle.

Rivets are best, followed by a tapped hole with a machine screw.

Self tapping screws will create stress in the resin surrounding the
hole, possibly creating cracks and ultimately failure. At best, the
screw will only be “held” by the shredded remains of the carbon fiber
strands which you have forced it through.

A rivet creates a compression load against both sides of the mast
wall, spreading out the pressure over the area covered by the back
side of the rivet after it has spread. Stronger, tighter, less
destructive. Easily removed by drilling the rivet head and punching
the body through the existing hole.





— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “ron barr” <rwhb@…>
wrote:

The mast is down. A new boat to us so we had it pulled for checking
etc. All
kinds of weird releasing material inside dropped out. Presumably
from the
original looming.

I love the phrase “it broke in my hand” !! I’ve heard that
somewhere
before, could have been the maid. I said several things when I
found my
helper had forgotten to attach the messenger.

I would think it difficult to fish anything out of the bottom exit
hole,
fairly small - it is possible perhaps with a wire loop/lasso
approximately
the ID of the mast but you’d have to get it in and sprung open
somehow.
There may be fishing devices that electricians use for this. Worth
checking
into.

I have talked to a rigger from Freedom and he expressed no real
concern
about drilling the odd hole in the mast. For the steaming/foredeck
light
which I am putting in next week I will drill two holes for the
mounting and
one larger center hole for the 3 conductor wire. Freedom installed
quite a
few of these lights. They used rivets but I plan to drill and use
two #8
self tapping screws.

Ron

Hoyt F32

Newport RI

Post by “Sward” Re:

Ron, did you take the mast down to do this rewiring? I also had the
same
problem of the wires letting go into the mast when someone went up
for me.
He said when he disconnected the wires from the light which he was
going to
replace for me, the wire broke in his hand and the weight of the
wires from
the mast dropped. He had a piece in his hand that was left. Isn’t
there just
a small hole where the wires went into the mast and hard to fish
anything
out?

I would also like to put in a steeming light/fordeck light and it
sounds
like it is doable, but to rivit it in with epoxy as added strength.
Is that
what the end result of the conversation was?

I had someone wire a new anemometer and he said it was a nightmare
running
the wires.

About 6 or so years ago when I first had the boat, not knowing
about not
drilling into the mast, I had someone put a folding mast step on,
since it
was impossible for me to reach to put the halyard on the sail and
zip the
cover where the zipper started at the top. Is there something I
should do
about that or is it too late.

Posted by Diedrich Holtkamp (dkholtkamp@…>)
problems with hood boom vangmy Hood Boom vang will not support the boom when mainsail is dropped on freedom 35. what is the appropriate repair or replacement? dholtkamp@…----- Original Message ----From: ron barr <rwhb@…>To: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.comSent: Friday, May 16, 2008 1:25:03 PMSubject: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Re: Mast obstructions on F32



The mast is down. A new boat to us so we had it pulled for
checking etc. All kinds of weird releasing material inside dropped out.
Presumably from the original looming. I love the phrase “it broke in my hand” !!
I’ve heard that somewhere before, could have been the maid. I said
several things when I found my helper had forgotten to attach the messenger. I would think it difficult to fish anything out of the
bottom exit hole, fairly small – it is possible perhaps with a wire loop/lasso
approximately the ID of the mast but you’d have to get it in and sprung
open somehow. There may be fishing devices that electricians use for this. Worth
checking into. I have talked to a rigger from Freedom and he expressed no
real concern about drilling the odd hole in the mast. For the steaming/foredeck
light which I am putting in next week I will drill two holes for the mounting
and one larger center hole for the 3 conductor wire. Freedom installed quite a
few of these lights. They used rivets but I plan to drill and use two #8 self
tapping screws. Ron Hoyt F32 Newport RI Post by “Sward” Re: Ron,
did you take the mast down to do this rewiring? I also had the same problem of
the wires letting go into the mast when someone went up for me. He said when he
disconnected the wires from the light which he was going to replace for me, the
wire broke in his hand and the weight of the wires from the mast dropped. He
had a piece in his hand that was left. Isn’t there just a small hole where the
wires went into the mast and hard to fish anything out?

I would also like to put in a steeming light/fordeck light and it sounds like
it is doable, but to rivit it in with epoxy as added strength. Is that what the
end result of the conversation was?

I had someone wire a new anemometer and he said it was a nightmare running the
wires.

About 6 or so years ago when I first had the boat, not knowing about not
drilling into the mast, I had someone put a folding mast step on, since it was
impossible for me to reach to put the halyard on the sail and zip the cover
where the zipper started at the top. Is there something I should do about that
or is it too late.

Posted by lance_ryley (lance_ryley@…>)

Hard to say for sure without seeing pictures or having a bit more info.
did you disassemble and reassemble the vang any time recently?

A friend of mine took their boom vang apart and couldn’t understand why
it didn’t seem to hold the boom up any more - had the spring on the
wrong side of the pin.

Lance
— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, Diedrich Holtkamp
<dkholtkamp@…> wrote:

problems with hood boom vang
my Hood Boom vang will not support the boom when mainsail is dropped
on freedom 35. what is the appropriate repair or replacement?
dholtkamp@…

Posted by michel.capel (michel.capel@…>)

It’s my understanding that it’s mandatory to drill, tap and bolt of
you have no possibility to use rivets. Selftapping screws pry open
the laminate over quite large an area. For a light object lik a
steaming light, thin household rivets that can be compressed with a
light tool will do. Just make sure the rivets are long enough so the
blob is fully inside the mast. Otherwise the blob damages te
laminate. I usually use oversized machinescrews in tapped holes.
Uversized because they have more threaded surface to spread the
load.

michel

— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “Alan Kusinitz”
<akusinitz@…> wrote:

If you use screws instead of rivets my understanding is its better
to
tap/thread the hole then to use self tapping screws.

Alan


From: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ron barr
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 1:25 PM
To: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Re: Mast obstructions on F32

The mast is down. A new boat to us so we had it pulled for
checking etc. All
kinds of weird releasing material inside dropped out. Presumably
from the
original looming.

I love the phrase “it broke in my hand” !! I’ve heard that
somewhere
before, could have been the maid. I said several things when I
found my
helper had forgotten to attach the messenger.

I would think it difficult to fish anything out of the bottom exit
hole,
fairly small - it is possible perhaps with a wire loop/lasso
approximately
the ID of the mast but you’d have to get it in and sprung open
somehow.
There may be fishing devices that electricians use for this. Worth
checking
into.

I have talked to a rigger from Freedom and he expressed no real
concern
about drilling the odd hole in the mast. For the steaming/foredeck
light
which I am putting in next week I will drill two holes for the
mounting and
one larger center hole for the 3 conductor wire. Freedom installed
quite a
few of these lights. They used rivets but I plan to drill and use
two #8
self tapping screws.

Ron

Hoyt F32

Newport RI

Post by “Sward” Re:

Ron, did you take the mast down to do this rewiring? I also had
the same
problem of the wires letting go into the mast when someone went up
for me.
He said when he disconnected the wires from the light which he was
going to
replace for me, the wire broke in his hand and the weight of the
wires from
the mast dropped. He had a piece in his hand that was left. Isn’t
there just
a small hole where the wires went into the mast and hard to fish
anything
out?

I would also like to put in a steeming light/fordeck light and it
sounds
like it is doable, but to rivit it in with epoxy as added
strength. Is that
what the end result of the conversation was?

I had someone wire a new anemometer and he said it was a nightmare
running
the wires.

About 6 or so years ago when I first had the boat, not knowing
about not
drilling into the mast, I had someone put a folding mast step on,
since it
was impossible for me to reach to put the halyard on the sail and
zip the
cover where the zipper started at the top. Is there something I
should do
about that or is it too late.

Posted by michel.capel (michel.capel@…>)

I recently brought in a new main halyard without pilot rope. I
attached 3’ of string to the end of the halyard an tied a large nut
as a weight to the end. The nut could just pass through the exit
hole at deck level. Through the exit hole, I inserted a loop of my
wiring puller. It’s a stiff transparant plastic wire. The loop sat
around the inside perimeter of the mast. I shone into the mast with
a torch. My son slowly dropped in the new halyard from the top of
the mast. When I saw the nut and white string pass the exit hole, I
told him to stop. I slowly took out the wire strop and with it came
the string. Everything on the first try.

I would even say that replacing wires without pilot rope is a lot
easier when the mast is up. I replaced all my wiring in two masts 2
years ago when the masts were down, and that was a hell of a job,
even with a pilot wire. I made huge wire looms packed in foam
insulation tube. The loom was so heavy that when lying in the
horizontal mast, the friction was too much for the pilot wire and it
broke.

michel

— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, Sward <swardfullsail@…>
wrote:

Thanks Ron, How will you snake the wires through? Is any of this
possible while the mast is up?

ron barr <rwhb@…> wrote: The mast is down. A new
boat to us so we had it pulled for checking etc. All kinds of weird
releasing material inside dropped out. Presumably from the original
looming.

I love the phrase “it broke in my hand” !! I’ve heard that
somewhere before, could have been the maid. I said several things
when I found my helper had forgotten to attach the messenger.

I would think it difficult to fish anything out of the bottom
exit hole, fairly small – it is possible perhaps with a wire
loop/lasso approximately the ID of the mast but you’d have to get it
in and sprung open somehow. There may be fishing devices that
electricians use for this. Worth checking into.

I have talked to a rigger from Freedom and he expressed no real
concern about drilling the odd hole in the mast. For the
steaming/foredeck light which I am putting in next week I will drill
two holes for the mounting and one larger center hole for the 3
conductor wire. Freedom installed quite a few of these lights. They
used rivets but I plan to drill and use two #8 self tapping screws.

Ron
Hoyt F32
Newport RI

Post by “Sward” Re:

Ron, did you take the mast down to do this rewiring? I also had
the same problem of the wires letting go into the mast when someone
went up for me. He said when he disconnected the wires from the
light which he was going to replace for me, the wire broke in his
hand and the weight of the wires from the mast dropped. He had a
piece in his hand that was left. Isn’t there just a small hole where
the wires went into the mast and hard to fish anything out?

I would also like to put in a steeming light/fordeck light and it
sounds like it is doable, but to rivit it in with epoxy as added
strength. Is that what the end result of the conversation was?

I had someone wire a new anemometer and he said it was a nightmare
running the wires.

About 6 or so years ago when I first had the boat, not knowing
about not drilling into the mast, I had someone put a folding mast
step on, since it was impossible for me to reach to put the halyard
on the sail and zip the cover where the zipper started at the top.
Is there something I should do about that or is it too late.

“Life is a Reach, then you Jibe”

SWARD

Posted by ron barr (rwhb@…>)


I think that self tapping screws could be a problem if large
and forced in very tight. I used very small screws with an easy fit hole and a little
sealing adhesive. I can not believe that would cause a crack to spread.

Ron
Hoyt F32
Newport RI

Posted by ron barr (rwhb@…>)


SNIP “.
I made huge wire looms packed in foam
insulation tube. The loom was so heavy that when lying in the
horizontal mast, the friction was too much for the pilot wire and it
broke.”

I
don’t understand this. Assuming one has no old wire in place to use as a
messenger it is still easy to thread a snake through the large diameter mast
punching small holes in the “partitions”. I have no idea what
purpose the partitions serve except perhaps to reduce the wire motion inside the
mast?

Ron
Hoyt F32
Newport RI