Posted by phildowneyuk (phildowneyuk@…>)
i have just discovered that the mast pocket luff on kusi`s f33/5 ck
sail is also used by a lot of wharram cats.
http://wharram.com/tikirigsail.html
nice to see that the wrap around luff idea is still being used on new
boats (other than nearly all cat rigged dinghies!)
freedom succumed to the publics conservative tastes in the end
strange realy because the wrap around luff was a key selling point in
all the early marketing and it works well too
if you must, add a boom … but why the track?
you loose the ability to raise lower anything other than into the
wind and the sail suffers from turbulant flow at the luff due to the
fat mast with no pocket
i think i have heard of one track sustaining damage on a freedom but
i cant remember which boat.
has anyone seen a freedom yet with a boom and pocket luff as it
would work well… if you must have a boom!
I can understand someone who wants to make the whishbones fixed
height as per wylie cats fitting a track , cos a tube wont get past
the fittings for the whishbone
by the way can anyone see any meaningful advantage of the full on 2
side wrap around sail over the luff tube?
apart from worries about the zip, which i cover by keeping a few
spare sliders and sail thread, palm and needles that should be
carried anyway
if you wanted a conventional boat you should have bought
one!!!
phil downey
Posted by michel.capel (michel.capel@…>)
Phil,
I think the two ply sail was used because they did not trust the
zippers and velcro at that time. I’ve sailed with it for 8 years,
but I still can’t think of an advantage of a two ply sail. The luff
sleeve remains a good and simple solution, although there are
drawbacks: the sail doesn’t stack neatly at the front, so you can
only use conventional dacron and you cannot mount hardware on the
mast.
The aerodynamic disadvantages of the single ply and track are
usually more than compensated with the increase of sail area dus to
the roach that can be built in. This can not be done with the two
ply or luff sleeve.
Michel
— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “phildowneyuk”
<phildowneyuk@…> wrote:
i have just discovered that the mast pocket luff on kusi`s f33/5
ck
sail is also used by a lot of wharram cats.
http://wharram.com/tikirigsail.html
nice to see that the wrap around luff idea is still being used on
new
boats (other than nearly all cat rigged dinghies!)
freedom succumed to the publics conservative tastes in the end
strange realy because the wrap around luff was a key selling point
in
all the early marketing and it works well too
if you must, add a boom … but why the track?
you loose the ability to raise lower anything other than into the
wind and the sail suffers from turbulant flow at the luff due to
the
fat mast with no pocket
i think i have heard of one track sustaining damage on a freedom
but
i cant remember which boat.
has anyone seen a freedom yet with a boom and pocket luff as it
would work well… if you must have a boom!
I can understand someone who wants to make the whishbones fixed
height as per wylie cats fitting a track , cos a tube wont get
past
the fittings for the whishbone
by the way can anyone see any meaningful advantage of the full on
2
side wrap around sail over the luff tube?
apart from worries about the zip, which i cover by keeping a few
spare sliders and sail thread, palm and needles that should be
carried anyway
if you wanted a conventional boat you should have bought
one!!!
phil downey
Posted by lance_ryley (lance_ryley@…>)
Hi Phil,
If you look at the design of the cat ketches, they pretty much all
have boomkins. This makes it hard to add a radar anywhere but on one
of the masts. On Bright Star, the radar was on the mizzen about 12’
off deck. Further, there was a steaming/deck light combination on the
main mast. While these might be seen as ‘conveniences,’ there’s no
way to do that if you are raising a two-ply sail. I think also that
the cost of building the sails is somewhat higher than than building
a ‘conventional’ sail.
Lance
— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “phildowneyuk”
<phildowneyuk@…> wrote:
i have just discovered that the mast pocket luff on kusi`s f33/5 ck
sail is also used by a lot of wharram cats.
http://wharram.com/tikirigsail.html
nice to see that the wrap around luff idea is still being used on
new
boats (other than nearly all cat rigged dinghies!)
freedom succumed to the publics conservative tastes in the end
strange realy because the wrap around luff was a key selling point
in
all the early marketing and it works well too
if you must, add a boom … but why the track?
you loose the ability to raise lower anything other than into the
wind and the sail suffers from turbulant flow at the luff due to
the
fat mast with no pocket
i think i have heard of one track sustaining damage on a freedom
but
i cant remember which boat.
has anyone seen a freedom yet with a boom and pocket luff as it
would work well… if you must have a boom!
I can understand someone who wants to make the whishbones fixed
height as per wylie cats fitting a track , cos a tube wont get past
the fittings for the whishbone
by the way can anyone see any meaningful advantage of the full on 2
side wrap around sail over the luff tube?
apart from worries about the zip, which i cover by keeping a few
spare sliders and sail thread, palm and needles that should be
carried anyway
if you wanted a conventional boat you should have bought
one!!!
phil downey
Posted by Herman and Gail Schiller (hschiller2@…>)
Have you guys ever seen the wrap-around sail with two booms and a
permanently curved mast that Bruce King invented? When headed off
the wind the sail becomes a giant spinnaker with the two boom
controlling the clews. Try and visualize this wild
rig. Herm
?At 10:40 PM 2/3/2008, you wrote:
i have just discovered that the mast pocket luff on kusi`s f33/5 ck
sail is also used by a lot of wharram cats.
<http://wharram.com/tikirigsail.html>http://wharram.com/tikirigsail.html
nice to see that the wrap around luff idea is still being used on new
boats (other than nearly all cat rigged dinghies!)
freedom succumed to the publics conservative tastes in the end
strange realy because the wrap around luff was a key selling point in
all the early marketing and it works well too
if you must, add a boom … but why the track?
you loose the ability to raise lower anything other than into the
wind and the sail suffers from turbulant flow at the luff due to the
fat mast with no pocket
i think i have heard of one track sustaining damage on a freedom but
i cant remember which boat.
has anyone seen a freedom yet with a boom and pocket luff as it
would work well… if you must have a boom!
I can understand someone who wants to make the whishbones fixed
height as per wylie cats fitting a track , cos a tube wont get past
the fittings for the whishbone
by the way can anyone see any meaningful advantage of the full on 2
side wrap around sail over the luff tube?
apart from worries about the zip, which i cover by keeping a few
spare sliders and sail thread, palm and needles that should be
carried anyway
if you wanted a conventional boat you should have bought
one!!!
phil downey
Posted by phildowneyuk (phildowneyuk@…>)
there was a lujungstrom rig that was like that on a standard mast i
dont like the idea of crash gybing that lot!
phil downey
Posted by andre laviolette (andrelaviolette@…>)
That rig was around in England way before Bruce King.Herman and Gail Schiller <hschiller2@…> wrote: Have you guys ever seen the wrap-around sail with two booms and a permanently curved mast that Bruce King invented? When headed off the wind the sail becomes a giant spinnaker with the two boom controlling the clews. Try and visualize this wild rig. Herm?At 10:40 PM 2/3/2008, you wrote:>i have just discovered that the mast pocket luff on kusi`s f33/5 ck>sail is also used by a lot of wharram
cats.><http://wharram.com/tikirigsail.html>http://wharram.com/tikirigsail.html>>nice to see that the wrap around luff idea is still being used on new>boats (other than nearly all cat rigged dinghies!)>freedom succumed to the publics conservative tastes in the end>strange realy because the wrap around luff was a key selling point in>all the early marketing and it works well too>if you must, add a boom … but why the track?>you loose the ability to raise lower anything other than into the>wind and the sail suffers from turbulant flow at the luff due to the>fat mast with no pocket>>i think i have heard of one track sustaining damage on a freedom but>i cant remember which boat.>>has anyone seen a freedom yet with a boom and pocket luff as
it>would work well… if you must have a boom!>>I can understand someone who wants to make the whishbones fixed>height as per wylie cats fitting a track , cos a tube wont get past>the fittings for the whishbone>>by the way can anyone see any meaningful advantage of the full on 2>side wrap around sail over the luff tube?>>apart from worries about the zip, which i cover by keeping a few>spare sliders and sail thread, palm and needles that should be>carried anyway>>if you wanted a conventional boat you should have bought>one!!!>>phil downey>>
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Posted by phildowneyuk (phildowneyuk@…>)
the radar problem has been got around by uk owner of a 35 ck by
building a frame above the pulpit and mounting it there
mines on an annoying strut at the back and has been hit while gybing so
it needs a rethink (see pictures)
i miss the decklights i had on my last boat so theres a good point …
toerail level led lights perhaps?
Posted by Herman and Gail Schiller (hschiller2@…>)
The critical difference in Bruce King’s rig is the mast is
permanently curved as a segment of an ellipse.The sail’s luff is
likewise curved. The mast can rotate, so that when heading downwind
the head sail is further forward, and keeps things from rounding up.
His rig was invented about 20 years ago, and is patented in the USA. Herm
At 03:26 PM 2/4/2008, you wrote:
That rig was around in England way before Bruce King.
Herman and Gail Schiller <hschiller2@…> wrote:
Have you guys ever seen the wrap-around sail with two booms and a
permanently curved mast that Bruce King invented? When headed off
the wind the sail becomes a giant spinnaker with the two boom
controlling the clews. Try and visualize this wild
rig. Herm
?At 10:40 PM 2/3/2008, you wrote:
i have just discovered that the mast pocket luff on kusi`s f33/5 ck
sail is also used by a lot of wharram cats.
<<http://wharram.com/tikirigsail.html>http://wharram.com/tikirigsai
l.html>http://wharram.com/tikirigsail.html
nice to see that the wrap around luff idea is still being used on new
boats (other than nearly all cat rigged dinghies!)
freedom succumed to the publics conservative tastes in the end
strange realy because the wrap around luff was a key selling point in
all the early marketing and it works well too
if you must, add a boom … but why the track?
you loose the ability to raise lower anything other than into the
wind and the sail suffers from turbulant flow at the luff due to the
fat mast with no pocket
i think i have heard of one track sustaining damage on a freedom but
i cant remember which boat.
has anyone seen a freedom yet with a boom and pocket luff as it
would work well… if you must have a boom!
I can understand someone who wants to make the whishbones fixed
height as per wylie cats fitting a track , cos a tube wont get past
the fittings for the whishbone
by the way can anyone see any meaningful advantage of the full on 2
side wrap around sail over the luff tube?
apart from worries about the zip, which i cover by keeping a few
spare sliders and sail thread, palm and needles that should be
carried anyway
if you wanted a conventional boat you should have bought
one!!!
phil downey
Instant message from any web browser! Try the new
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Posted by michel.capel (michel.capel@…>)
Phil,
When I mounted a wind generator on a transom pole on my F33/35, I
shortened the mizzen boom end by 6", just enough to clear the pole.
and in stead of deck lights, I always use a miners/mountaineers
headlight to do jobs on deck at night. I hate deck lights because
they ruin everybody’s night sight. The head light always points in
the right direction.
michel
— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “phildowneyuk”
<phildowneyuk@…> wrote:
the radar problem has been got around by uk owner of a 35 ck by
building a frame above the pulpit and mounting it there
mines on an annoying strut at the back and has been hit while
gybing so
it needs a rethink (see pictures)
i miss the decklights i had on my last boat so theres a good
point …
toerail level led lights perhaps?