What dimensions am I looking for on our Freedom 40 cat ketch?
And what about a spinnaker?
George
I don’t have the dimensions handy (and the sail is on the boat 165 miles from here), but the mizzen staysail is a a wire-luffed reaching sail. The luff is essentially equal to the distance from the mizzen masthead to a point on the centerline of the boat just aft of the forward hatch, while the foot length (cut somewhat hollow) is pretty much equal to the distance from that same point to the aft end of the mizzen boom.
I recall reading somewhere that there was also a “blade” type mizzen staysail available.
Steve Haarstick probably has the specs on these.
Mizzen spinnaker? Maybe you could rig an asymmetrical (assuming your mainmast is in place), but it wouldn’t be a better downwind rig than the wing & wing of the main & mizzen. What would be the point?
I’ll drop him a line but I’m of course looking for used sails because I’m cheap.
I’m really not sure. I look up there and I see that empty pulley at the front of the mast and wonder…
I’m very interested in both the reaching sail and the blade. I’ve heard that a flatter sail in that slot can help the boat get speed to windward.
George
Unless Steve KNOWS you won’t be buying a new sail from him, I would think you’d find him cooperative. You may have a bit of trouble locating a sail of that dimension with a sewn-in wire luff.
I’m not following you on the “empty pulley” thing. The same halyard used for the mizzen staysail would be what you’d use on a mizzen spinnaker.
I have a spare halyard on each mast…externally led…lots of windage…have to remember to loosen them up before sailing so it doesn’t keep the mast tips from bending off…ditto for the running backstays for the mizzen, so I usually store them (at the dock) with a turn or two around the mast so they don’t slap, and then tie them off loosely on the toerail just forward of either mast when sailing.
I guess a blade in that slot would help. You’d get a better slot effect from the main to the blade and from the blade to the mizzen than you do now. Don’t plan on this unless you’re gonna be on the same tack for a while (like anywhere from an hour to half a day maybe).
Remember, that you have to (at least) drop the staysail halyard enough to gather the staysail back to the forward side of the mizzenmast before you can tack the main…and if you have the staysail sheeted to the end of the mizzen boom, you have to re-lead the sheet around the mizzenmast before you can trim the staysail again, and you can only do this with the mizzen sheeted in close enough to reach the end of the boom.
Double sheets aren’t really an option here, since there’d be line hanging around everywhere and your sheet length would be enormous, given that the lazy sheet would run from the end of the tail to the cockpit winch, then as far out as the end of the boom can be from that point, then the length of the boom, around the mast, and back out to the foot of the staysail (plus the maximum distance that you’d ever need between the end-boom block to the staysail foot). It’s not much better when sheeted to the toerail, as the turning block is so far back from the mast.
You’re better off to just drop it and rehoist it after the tack is complete.
My reacher is good for about a knot of boatspeed in winds up to about 15 knots. I’ve never flown it in higher winds than that. It also tends to make the rolls on a reach a bit more exaggerated if you’re in shallower open water where things are stacking up due to the proximity of the bottom.
Ah… spinnaker wise I’m talking about a pulley at the head of the main mast forward.
For the blade. I’ve been mid Atlantic, same tack for days trying to squeak a little extra out of the performance. When you have days or weeks to landfall and may be on the same tack for days, getting a little extra speed (even a fraction of a knot) or a few degrees of pinch can drastically improve your numbers over time. What else are you going to do with that 4 hour watch besides tweak? Only so many times you can listen to that Eliza Gilkyson download before it starts to loose it’s appeal! heh heh
Kerri and I are looking towards world conquest. 
On a shoestring.
George
I think that spare halyard on the main is to give you some way to get up the mast to re-reave/retrieve the main halyard if you break it or lose it. (It also serves as a nice “safety” when going up the mast on the regular halyard)…or maybe to help kedge the boat from an anchor if you’re grounded.
Given that you need either an asymmetrical spinnaker or a spinnaker pole & track arrangement for the standard balloon…I can’t see that the factory would have “given” you that extra halyard “just in case” you wanted to fly a spinnaker.
Maybe they just rigged three on each mast and that was that. heh heh As is I have one as a main halyard and one as a spare that doubles as topping lift. That empty pulley has a distinctive “ping ping ping” in certain wind conditions so it’s getting a halyard on it for whatever reasons, all the ones you mention sound good.
George
My “spares” are on the forward side of the mast, and thus not in the optimal position to use as either a topping lift or a substitute main halyard. You wouldn’t get full lift on the sail, and it’s rubbing alongside the mast on its way “back & down”.
Why rig a third halyard to rot in the sun and create more banging and windage? Just haul your kid up there and let him take it off of the padeye. Clean it up and put it in a drawer in case you ever need it.
Bright Star had a spare halyard on the Mizzen as well, to hoist either the blade or full mizzen staysail or the mizzen spinnaker. All three of those sails went with the boat when I sold it. I’ll see if Alex would be willing to pull them out and measure them for you.
Lance
Lance,
Did you find the blade advantages working to windward? I guess I should back up and just ask you to describe under what circumstances you found each sail useful.
George
Possible configurations: spi downwind:
staysail on a beam reach:
blade staysail on a reach:
And have a look at Michel Capel’s pictures of Alabama Queen with a gennaker and other F40/44 with staysails (http://www.flickr.com/photos/alabama_queen/sets/72157602553088420/)
In all cases, used sails of conventional sloop should do the trick.
Keep me posted on this one, I’m also looking for a used regular/blade staysail for my boat.
Alain
I think I’m going to get a piece of PVC pipe with a flag on it to put up on my mizzen. I have schooner envy… heh heh
George
Have you seen this one? It’s a Tanton 37 cat schooner with rigging extensions… I’m dreamin of a bowsprit like that.
Here’s my own setup: a ready made (confection) Allround gennaker (Aspin AR) made by Momentum Sails. They have about 25 different sizes off the shelf. I decided to take one with not too much luff length so I can stretch the luff even when the tack is not all the way forward at the main mast. And besides that, 85 m2 for a staysail is large enough for me to handle, with a main an mizzen totalling 76 m2. Momentum sows the sails in Thailand and sells world wide, I think.
The next time Dwight comes through here with a J-105 I’ll have a distraction ready and have someone lighten up the bow of that thing! heh heh
The real scary thing is that I’ve got an aluminum version already made up in my head.
But seriously Michel,
Do you like your all 'rounder? Maybe we should duplicate it. What are the dimensions?
George
Michel–
Are you sheeting your gennaker off of the end of the mizzen wishbone?
I can’t tell in the picture as your foredeck ape (you?) is blocking that part of the photo. LOL
Yeah, I’m the ape allright. I’m the only one doing jobs on deck; nobody understands my rig.
I sheet it to the end of the wishbone, then to an extra block on the toe rail right under the mizzen to prevent pulling the mizzen in, then to the aft winch. I like it, although an allround sail is a compromise. On my F33/35 I had three mizzen staysails, of which the largest was as full as a spinaker in the top. The midsize was like you see on the F39 Express in the picture above, and the small one was a flat blade which I never got to work properly. Because of the storage size of mizzen staysails on an F44, I decided to have only one medium full cut gennaker to replace the two largest staysails I used to have.
Have a look at: http://www.momentumsails.com/2005uk/site/default.asp
They have size tables. I’m sure they sell in the US too. I believe the sails are made in Thailand.