I realize asking which anchor works best is a little like opening a discussion on politics or religion – everyone will have an opinion with anecdotal evidence to back it up. Here goes anyway: After jamming our Simpson-Lawrence windlass over the weekend while practicing procedures for anchoring single handed, we had it looked at by the boatyard, who advised that we needed to replace our 20-year old chain, which was supposedly at least part of the problem. So first question: Have others noted that chain has a limited use-life and done routine replacement of it?
Next, the yard suggested that (previously unbeknown to us) our windlass would haul up nylon as well as chain and suggested 100 feet of chain and 100 of line (we’ve sailed for 20 years with 125 feet of chain only), as opposed to putting longer chain on the boat (we sail to Maine and would like to go far, far East where the tides are large). This is a horizontal 20-year old Simpson-Lawrence. Anyone have experience with combination long-chain-nylon-rodes going through such a windlass?
Finally, I’m thinking if we get all this new stuff for our ground tackle,a new anchor (to replace a 30-year old 35-lb. CQR) might be in order. Reviews on the Rocna seem really favorable. Does anyone have one of those installed? Does it work OK with the roller on the bow? And if so on a Hoyt F32, which weight did you go with?
Lots of questions. Thanks for reading this far.
Chris Mills
Watermusic, Hoyt F32
Docked in Milford CT
Oh yes, brothers, let me preach to you about the wonders of my anchor choices and why they should be everyone else’s choices, too!
About the only realistic thing that I think would kill chain is serious rust. I wouldn’t replace it just on age alone. Make sure the chain is the exact type the windlass needs (BBB or G4 or whatever) or it will jam. Mine (G4) will lightly jam sometimes anyway, but a short bit of reverse on the windlass clears it.
I have a Muir vertical windlass on my Hoyt 32 and the “chain” wildcat will also haul rope as well. What it won’t do is automatically push the rope down the hawse pipe as it comes in, it just piles up on deck and I have to push it down there myself. I’d actually prefer a rope / chain rode just for the shock absorption the rope has, but I use an all-chain rode just for the convenience of having the rode self-store as it comes up. I don’t know if the the Simpson-Lawrence windlass is the same, I have zero experience with one. I have a short piece of rope fastened to the end of the chain rode just to keep me from accidentally dumping the whole thing overboard but the forepeak doesn’t have enough room for my 140’ of chain plus maybe 100’ or so of rope as well. So I just use all chain.
I changed from a 35 lb CQR to a 35 lb Manson Supreme. The Manson is the cheaper knockoff of the Rocna, essentially the same design but about 1/2 the price. I love it. I often had trouble getting the CQR to set, it could take several tries. The Manson sets every time and I can literally feel the boat jerk to a stop, it’s pretty much “can’t miss.” 35 lb is “too big”, the 25 lb version would probably be enough but, with a windlass, why not go bigger? I might be re-thinking that notion the day I have to pull it up by hand, though. It doesn’t fit the bow roller all that well, I should get a different one, but it works well enough for that item to be well down the list.
Thanks for the reply, Rick. For the reason that my wife wants to single-hand the boat in Maine this summer, I may go with the smaller of the recommended sizes of a Rocna to cover the possibility that she might have to haul it up by hand. I have to say that I actually saw a review of the Manson that wasn’t all that favorable when comparing it to the Rocna. I will have to do some further research. Also, since I need it in a relative hurry (want to leave the Monday before the Fourth), I’m not sure I have the time to order something that isn’t readily available from Defender or West. Not sure I’ve seen them carrying Manson anchors. I have been thinking of buying the smaller Rocna at the local West store (assuming it’s in stock), taking it back to the boat to make sure it will fit on the roller correctly, and taking it back if it doesn’t. Seven years or so ago we tried a big Delta, and my wife hated it. Wouldn’t set worth beans. So we went back to the CQR, which really hasn’t ever been a reliable setter, in my view. Kind of the lesser of evils.
Admitting that I am far from being an anchor expert - I will add that we were very happy - extremely happy with the Bruce anchor on our F30. Set easily and reset easily in big wind shifts. We haven’t invested in a new anchor for our F38, and we really dislike (are frustrated with) the CQR that came with the boat.
I have Rocna 20 on my Freedom 38. The secondary is a Fortress. When we installed the windlass put on a 35# Delta after a year replaced it with the Rocna. Cruise mostly the Chesapeake and the Rocna with 25’ of chain and 200’ of rope sets the first time and has never dragged,
Thanks for responding, Jim. Not to be unduly dense, but which weight is what you’re referring to as the Rocna 20? There appear to be 22 and 33 pound versions of the anchor, and I was actually thinking of going lighter (on the possibility that I or my spouse might have to haul it manually in the event of windlass failure). The specs say that the 22 will handle boats ranging from 23 to 36, while the 33 pounder is for boats 26-39.
I put a Manson Supreme (similar to the Rocna) on our 40/40 and I am really happy with it. It just seems to grab onto the bottom and never let go. Sets much better than the CQR.
I installed a 25 Kg Rocna in 2007 and we have extensive experience anchoring with it. In general if it sets, it will stay set. No need to hand set it like the CQR that it replaced. It’s a great anchor and we sleep well at night.
Just note that if you use a swivel, you need to have a piece of chain between the swivel and the anchor. See http://www.rocna.com/kb/Swivels
Hi, I also have theMason Supreme like Rick. I anchor extensively and couldn’t be happier with it. I use all chain and wouldn’t consider anything else with the cruising I do. I believe your pretty right with any of new age anchors. I personally could not sleep at night if I had a CQR or equivalent. I say this very humbly and do not want to tempt fate but I have never dragged once since using the mansion supreme big fan but believe I would have same experience with the Rocna.
Just FYI I went looking for the KB Article about the swivel that Geoff posted. The current correct URL is here http://kb.rocna.com/kb/Swivels
Interesting point about lateral loads are what cause swivels to fail and the way to avoid that is to put a short piece of chain between the anchor and the swivel. I don’t think that is what most folks do but it makes a lot of sense.
If the anchor weight is that much of an issue maybe you should consider an aluminum spade for when your wife is single handing (15 lbs. for your Hoyt 32 because they rate their anchors by area not weight.) Spade anchors are rated pretty well.
Or just buy one of the normally sized modern anchors (Rocna, Manson or Spade) and rig a chain hook, line and snatch block to retrieve it with one of your winches if the windlass fails; one 20 ft. length at a time.
I have a galvanized spade, 100 ft. of chain and 200 ft. of rope with a Lewmar vertical windlass on my F-30. Works well.
We have a mixed chain/anchor rode. It runs through the Simpson-Lawrence winch without problems, including the splice. The nylon is 8-strand multiplait, and when we run it out - which is rare - we have to stow the nylon below decks separately as it doesn’t coil up without intervention in our chain locker.
In sheltered waters, we can get away with a 10kg Bruce, which holds well in the silt of Scandinavian lagoons, but otherwise have been able to rely on our CQR; I would change it for a Rocna if I lost it, but not otherwise.
And, by the way, our anchor and chain are 30+ years old; we had the anchor re-galvanised ten years ago, but the chain is still OK.
Can someone show me there setup for windlass on F32. I never had one before on smaller boat and almost ready to remove because on my F32 it is set back from my anchor locker so I can’t have it dumped automatically into it. I have rope chain setup and it is a pain when you trying to get off anchor and there is no point dropping anchor via windlass since I have to feed it manually into the windlass. So how do you do it? Do you just dump all of it on the deck and then once off the anchor start feeding the whole thing through the tiny hole that leads to chain locker? It is a huge mess especially when the chain si muddy. How do you feed it? Do you feed it backwards from bottom up this way you can collect it and make sure it doesn’t get wrapped around the drum? Seems like the whole front of F32 is not designed for windlass and I’m starting to think it’s too much trouble to have unless somebody has a system that works?
I can’t answer your questions, but it sure sounds like a windlass on your boat might be a solution in search of a problem. I see in another post you are getting rid of your davits and outboard motor hoist, so I’m guessing handling the anchor without a windlass is not a problem. On my Freedom 35 I got tired of having to be careful of my hands, and seeing the rope to chain splice get mangled, so now I bypass the windlass.
My primary anchor is a 25 lb CQR, and it is not an issue for me with the bow roller and typical depths of 10-15 feet. With a heavier anchor and/or all chain set up I would probably go back to using the windlass. I’m not the original owner, but as best I can tell the boat has always been used in coastal waters in an area with lots of moorings and well protected shallow anchorages, so the windlass installation is a bit of a mystery. My guess is the same prior owner who put in the windlass also installed the inverter, on a boat with a modest battery bank. That one got removed by me. No point in tempting anyone to plug in a hair dryer
Good afternoon
I have tried several anchors and found the Fortress to be superior in every way. I have a Freedom 33 Cat ketch and sail in the north east US. I switched to a F23 which may be over-sized for my boat but it fits the bow roller and weighs next to nothing. It has never failed to hold. I have 30’ of chain and 200’ of nylon. The anchor has the mud palms which help it set that much faster. The next addition will be a anchor windless. Any suggestions in that area.
