New F33 owner - maybe

Posted by paulsebra (paulsebra@…>)

Good Day,

I am in the process of finalizing the purchase of an F33 with wrap
around sails and wishbone booms. I would be grateful for any help
that anyone may point me towards that would aid in my rehab efforts.
I have reviewed the databases, etc on this site and found some
things at other sites, but if anyone had any input for the following
issues …

  1. The sails are a bit “old”, we have seen some discussions about
    converting to sail tracks with a standard boom or keeping the
    wishbone … Our masts do not have the reinforcing band for the boom
    to mount upon. Is this CF band put on afterward or at the factory?
    My inclination is to go to a track and keep the wishbones, am I
    misguided.

  2. We are having the Yanmar checked out, but are prepared to
    repower, has anyone done this, any thoughts on the 29hp Yanmar.

  3. Are there any issues (maintenance, weak points, etc.) with the
    centerboard that we should be aware of??

  4. The hull and decks “sounded” fine except for some minor
    damage … any suggestions for “typical” core troubles.

  5. The hatches are pretty poor quality and will be replaced, any
    thoughts on this job?

  6. The boat came with no manuals, is there a source for owner’s
    manuals, etc.

Thanks in advance, I will post my info as the rehab proceeds.

Paul

Posted by Michel Capel (mike_c_f35ck@…>)

Paul, see my comments below.


— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “paulsebra”
<paulsebra@y…> wrote:

Good Day,

I am in the process of finalizing the purchase of an F33 with wrap
around sails and wishbone booms. I would be grateful for any help
that anyone may point me towards that would aid in my rehab
efforts.
I have reviewed the databases, etc on this site and found some
things at other sites, but if anyone had any input for the
following
issues …

  1. The sails are a bit “old”, we have seen some discussions about
    converting to sail tracks with a standard boom or keeping the
    wishbone … Our masts do not have the reinforcing band for the
    boom
    to mount upon. Is this CF band put on afterward or at the factory?
    My inclination is to go to a track and keep the wishbones, am I
    misguided.

IMHO you are not misguided, look at wyliecat.com. I have an F33 also
and would certainly keep my wishbones but get rid of the two ply
sail. If you turn the masts 180 degrees, you can use the wishbone
hoist eye (then on the front of the mast) to make the Wyliecat
wishbone pennant. The original front of the mast can have the track.
Don’t forget to also swap the topplates (you don’t want your tricolor
light to shine the wrong way) and while doing that, put in a sheave
for an internal halyard.

\

  1. We are having the Yanmar checked out, but are prepared to
    repower, has anyone done this, any thoughts on the 29hp Yanmar.

  2. Are there any issues (maintenance, weak points, etc.) with the
    centerboard that we should be aware of??

I Think not. Check the halyard and sheaves, keep the inside trunk
and the board free of barnacles, that’s all.

  1. The hull and decks “sounded” fine except for some minor
    damage … any suggestions for “typical” core troubles.

check for leaking portholes and water ingress in the cabin sides.

\

  1. The hatches are pretty poor quality and will be replaced, any
    thoughts on this job?

  2. The boat came with no manuals, is there a source for owner’s
    manuals, etc.

Thanks in advance, I will post my info as the rehab proceeds.

Paul

Posted by Jerome Weinraub (zayde@…>)

I have a tall rig fixed keel 33,so I cant comment on sails,cb,etc. Re the
Yanmar,if it is in good to OK shape,keeping it or rebuilding it is a viable
option.Check prices of swap vs rebuild.I have a 97 27 hp replacement,and it
powers her along well enough. It is essentially the same engine as the 21
hp,so it is an easy swap. You will need a new prop . Mine is 15 x13 3
blade.My Fwd deck hatch is a replacement(Bomar),as are my opening
ports(ABCO)… They work well… As to the manuals,try Freedom,if
not,later,when I can access the boat,I’ll copy the manual for you.I never
found it to be of much value,so far.
----- Original Message ----- )
From: “paulsebra” <paulsebra@…>
To: <freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 2:03 PM
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] New F33 owner - maybe

\

Good Day,

I am in the process of finalizing the purchase of an F33 with wrap
around sails and wishbone booms. I would be grateful for any help
that anyone may point me towards that would aid in my rehab efforts.
I have reviewed the databases, etc on this site and found some
things at other sites, but if anyone had any input for the following
issues …

  1. The sails are a bit “old”, we have seen some discussions about
    converting to sail tracks with a standard boom or keeping the
    wishbone … Our masts do not have the reinforcing band for the boom
    to mount upon. Is this CF band put on afterward or at the factory?
    My inclination is to go to a track and keep the wishbones, am I
    misguided.

  2. We are having the Yanmar checked out, but are prepared to
    repower, has anyone done this, any thoughts on the 29hp Yanmar.

  3. Are there any issues (maintenance, weak points, etc.) with the
    centerboard that we should be aware of??

  4. The hull and decks “sounded” fine except for some minor
    damage … any suggestions for “typical” core troubles.

  5. The hatches are pretty poor quality and will be replaced, any
    thoughts on this job?

  6. The boat came with no manuals, is there a source for owner’s
    manuals, etc.

Thanks in advance, I will post my info as the rehab proceeds.

Paul

Yahoo! Groups Links

Posted by Frank Minelli (myslo@…>)
On the question of potential hull trouble:

The hull is balsa-cored. the balsa is untreated, and thus is a ¨sponge¨ to soak up any and all moisture. The slightest ingress of water , at any point below the water line will lead to eventual saturation of the balsa with water, and thus,. destruction of the hull.

It therefore is a good idea to assure yourself that ñthe balsa core is not wet.
You can start this process with a moisture meter, but it needs to be done by someone that knows how to read it, since the data from the meter needs to be interpreted.

The meter will locate any suspect areas.
(When I did my metering, it went to 100% , on virtually every square foot of the hull)

Any areas that are suspected of being wet, the thing to do is to take a core bit and remove
a half inch or so core sample. (Leaving the inner skin intact)

Should the hull prove to be wet in several areas, or even all of it below the water line, dont lose interest in the boat, it can be repaired , and, done right, you even wind up with a stronger hull than before.
Jerome Weinraub <zayde@…> wrote:
I have a tall rig fixed keel 33,so I cant comment on sails,cb,etc. Re the Yanmar,if it is in good to OK shape,keeping it or rebuilding it is a viable option.Check prices of swap vs rebuild.I have a 97 27 hp replacement,and it powers her along well enough. It is essentially the same engine as the 21 hp,so it is an easy swap. You will need a new prop . Mine is 15 x13 3 blade.My Fwd deck hatch is a replacement(Bomar),as are my opening ports(ABCO)… They work well… As to the manuals,try Freedom,if not,later,when I can access the boat,I’ll copy the manual for you.I never found it to be of much value,so far.----- Original Message ----- )From: “paulsebra” <paulsebra@…>To: <freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 2:03 PMSubject: [freedomyachts2003] New F33 owner -
maybe>>> Good Day,>> I am in the process of finalizing the purchase of an F33 with wrap> around sails and wishbone booms. I would be grateful for any help> that anyone may point me towards that would aid in my rehab efforts.> I have reviewed the databases, etc on this site and found some> things at other sites, but if anyone had any input for the following> issues …>> 1. The sails are a bit “old”, we have seen some discussions about> converting to sail tracks with a standard boom or keeping the> wishbone … Our masts do not have the reinforcing band for the boom> to mount upon. Is this CF band put on afterward or at the factory?> My inclination is to go to a track and keep the wishbones, am I> misguided.>> 2. We are having the Yanmar checked out, but are prepared to> repower, has anyone done this, any thoughts on the 29hp
Yanmar.>> 3. Are there any issues (maintenance, weak points, etc.) with the> centerboard that we should be aware of??>> 4. The hull and decks “sounded” fine except for some minor> damage … any suggestions for “typical” core troubles.>> 5. The hatches are pretty poor quality and will be replaced, any> thoughts on this job?>> 6. The boat came with no manuals, is there a source for owner’s> manuals, etc.>> Thanks in advance, I will post my info as the rehab proceeds.>> Paul>>>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Posted by Dave_Benjamin (dave_benjamin@…>)

Should the hull prove to be wet in several areas, or even all of
it below the water line, dont lose interest in the boat, it can be
repaired , and, done right, you even wind up with a stronger hull
than before.

I respectfully disagree. If all of the core is saturated the project
is a bit much for amateurs. It’s just not too viable economically
although if you got the boat for free it might, and I emphasize,
might be worth it. You’re talking about removing the entire outer
skin below the waterline, recoring, and the building a new outer
skin. I’ve seen it done on a practically new F-39 that hit Ano Nuevo
reef. The insurace company wrote the boat off. Someone came along
and bought the boat and recored it. I think it took over 5 years.

Posted by Frank Minelli (myslo@…>)
In 1995, when I retired and wanted to go cruising, I found my F33, the core of it, saturated with water.

I went about to research what the experts thought my options were, and the consensus was that the best course of action would be to chop her up with the chainsaw.
Reglassing the hull would cost too much and it would nnot be possible to achieve a first rate layup.

With other words, ït can´t be done¨.

The project took about three months. the stripping off of the outer hull, after some experimenting, was easy. I took the little angle grinder with a 1/16¨cutting disc and cut the hull into strips, about 6¨wide, with a cross cut every once in a while. A crow bar did the rest.
This was done from about 6¨above the water line, down to where the hull is solid , a few inches up from the keel.
Some of the balsa proved to be totally ruined, almost reduced to cellulose. The rest dried out in a day or two, exposed to sun and wind. We replaced the tuined balsa andI then saturated it all with a very thin, penetrating expoxy. After that had cured, the balsa was rock hard, to never again soak up water. At the same ti me, the epoxy soak took care of any delamination between the old balsa and the inner hull. as proved out with some core samples.

Then it was time to re glass the hull. This is where the expert opinion said that it could not be done, i. e. it would be impossible to achieve a hi quality lay up working on vertical and past-vertical surfaces. We used a diagonal weave cloth , 27 oz, with random mat stitched to the back side. (5 plies) The resin was Sytem 3 epoxy. After preparatory work such as cutting, etc. the actual lay up was accomplished , each side of the boat, in a long day.

It then took of course manyhours of fairing and painting. Today, ten years later, when the sun is hitting the hull on a very oblique angle, you still can see where the new hull meets the old.

The boat has since been used as liveaboard, been out of the water just a month or two each year and has seen many miles of cruising in the Caribbean, including a couple of quite frightening groundings and some rather rough weather at sea.
We inspect her closely on every haul out. As far as we can tell, there has been no detrioration.

The job cost about $2500 in glass, about the same in expoxy, and maybe about another 3000 for the yard, for paint and for incidentals. I estimate it took a total of some 400 man hours to do it.

Dave_Benjamin <dave_benjamin@…> wrote:

Should the hull prove to be wet in several areas, or even all of it below the water line, dont lose interest in the boat, it can be repaired , and, done right, you even wind up with a stronger hull than before. > I respectfully disagree. If all of the core is saturated the project is a bit much for amateurs. It’s just not too viable economically although if you got the boat for free it might, and I emphasize, might be worth it. You’re talking about removing the entire outer skin below the waterline, recoring, and the building a new outer skin. I’ve seen it done on a
practically new F-39 that hit Ano Nuevo reef. The insurace company wrote the boat off. Someone came along and bought the boat and recored it. I think it took over 5 years.
Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.

Posted by paulsebra (paulsebra@…>)

Good Day,

I just wanted to thank everyone who replied both in group and e-mail
for your kind help in regards to F33 info. I have completed the
deal and am now the proud owner of a 1981 F33 CB with wrap-arounds.

The boat will be a bit of a project, but I am happy with the
cost/rehab ratio. I will post what info I can, especially if I
repower, Hopefully it will help someone.

For the time being, the sails are on the way to a loft for rehab, I
will keep the wrap-arounds for now and the wishbone, even if I go to
a tracked main.

There are a couple damaged spots in the hull needing recoring …
should not be a big issue … I am familiar with balsa having
rehabbed and lived aboard a TPI Lagoon 42 for 4 years.

Anyway

Thanks again

Paul