New Instruments

Posted by Brien (brienb@…>)

Boat show season is upon us and it is time for me to replace my original
Datamarine
Corinthian series instruments on my F36/38. Thoughts? I have a functional
Raymarine
ST5000 autohelm with SeaTalk, so I suppose that’s a significant consideration
when it
comes to linking- or is it? Lots of choices out there, some with a longer track
record than
others. I like the display of Raymarine, the simplicity of B&G H1000 and the
price of
Navman.

Secondly, my instruments have lived at the helm station, but for better
visibility I am
considering a relocation above the companionway in a pod-like structure. Has
anyone
done this? If so, what did you do and how did you run the wiring?

Thanks for any input!

Posted by ajlorman (ajlorman@…>)

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Brien” <brienb@m…>
wrote:

Boat show season is upon us and it is time for me to replace my
original Datamarine
Corinthian series instruments on my F36/38. Thoughts? I have a
functional Raymarine
ST5000 autohelm with SeaTalk, so I suppose that’s a significant
consideration when it
comes to linking- or is it? Lots of choices out there, some with a
longer track record than
others. I like the display of Raymarine, the simplicity of B&G
H1000 and the price of
Navman.

Secondly, my instruments have lived at the helm station, but for
better visibility I am
considering a relocation above the companionway in a pod-like
structure. Has anyone
done this? If so, what did you do and how did you run the wiring?

Thanks for any input!

Posted by ajlorman (ajlorman@…>)

I just went through the same exercise. Since I decided first on a
Raymaine ST4000, I bought the rest from Raymarine as well (they also
had an instrument package that was reasonably priced). I have a
NavPod with all four displays mounted at the helm. Using all
Raymarine instruments made wiring dramatically easier. Only one
power cable needs to be snaked up the pedestal guard. All of the
instruments are daisy-chained off the wheelpilot control head; the
SeaTalk connection provides power as well as data.

I, too, wanted to mount the instruments over the companionway but
finally decided it was simply too compliated. If you do decide to
go that route, Nexus makes a nice instrument pod for companionmway
mounting (you need to rig up the supporting structure, however).

Al Lorman
F30

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Brien” <brienb@m…>
wrote:

Boat show season is upon us and it is time for me to replace my
original Datamarine
Corinthian series instruments on my F36/38. Thoughts? I have a
functional Raymarine
ST5000 autohelm with SeaTalk, so I suppose that’s a significant
consideration when it
comes to linking- or is it? Lots of choices out there, some with a
longer track record than
others. I like the display of Raymarine, the simplicity of B&G
H1000 and the price of
Navman.

Secondly, my instruments have lived at the helm station, but for
better visibility I am
considering a relocation above the companionway in a pod-like
structure. Has anyone
done this? If so, what did you do and how did you run the wiring?

Thanks for any input!

Posted by Doug Payne (doug.payne@…>)


Are your Data Marine instruments still
working? What year is the boat? I have I believe the 5000 series, is that the
same as the Corinthian? Mine work perfectly, I am not ready to upgrade, but
have been looking for the Nav Station base unit with readouts. I have of course
displays in the cockpit, but my base unit has just the chips, no display. I
understand these are modular and if I can find a used base unit with display, I
should be able to plug into my system. I am looking for that base 5000 unit
that has the displays and controls to switch between functions.

Douglas M. Payne
Managing Partner Arizona Colorado
Tatum Partners
480-614-4915 Office
480-236-4561 Mobile
480-614-4916 Fax
doug.payne@…
TATUM PARTNERS
Financial and Information Technology Leadership
Tatum CFO Partners, LLP - Tatum CIO Partners, LLP www.tatumpartners.com
This electronic message is intended for the person or entity
to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
information. Any review, dissemination, copying, printing, or other use of this
electronic message by persons or entities other than the addressee is
prohibited. If you received this electronic message in error, please contact the
sender immediately and delete the electronic message from any and all
computers.

-----Original Message-----
From: Brien [mailto:brienb@…]

Sent: Wednesday, September 22,
2004 7:03 PM
To:
freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] New
Instruments

Boat show season is upon us and it is time for me to
replace my original Datamarine
Corinthian series instruments on my F36/38.
Thoughts? I have a functional Raymarine
ST5000 autohelm with SeaTalk, so I suppose that’s
a significant consideration when it
comes to linking- or is it? Lots of choices out
there, some with a longer track record than
others. I like the display of Raymarine, the
simplicity of B&G H1000 and the price of
Navman.

Secondly, my instruments have lived at the helm
station, but for better visibility I am
considering a relocation above the companionway in
a pod-like structure. Has anyone
done this? If so, what did you do and how did you
run the wiring?

Thanks for any input!



\

Posted by Brian Guptil (sailordude@…>)

Instruments.
Lets start with the location thing. I have on all my boats placed the instruments, at the front of the cockpit. On the boats with off-center hatches they were on or near the centerline. Otherwise adjacent to the companionway. This way, all can see and the helmsperson is not stuck behind the wheel. On all the boats, this really allows flexibility for driving.

With this in mind, displays need to be large enough to be readable. The only draw-back is that occasionally you need to remind people to not stand in front of the instruments when they are at the front of the cockpit.

On S/V Dolphin, it was a previously installed integrated system with a central processor and multiple displays. I do not remember the manufacture, but have never seen another example.

On S/V Nereid, I replaced the original helm pod mounted instruments with Ray-Marine ST50 system, Tri-Data, wind and VMG to the right of the companionway, and a multi in the cabin. Integrated with multiple GPS sources and an ST7000 autopilot with the linear drive attached to the radial disk on the rudder post. The wind instrument needed bearing replacement every three years, otherwise, no failures.

On S/V Cayenne, I stuck with Ray, ST60. Tri-Data, Wind and the new graphic multi in the cockpit, a multi at the nav-sta and one in the main cabin. The auto pilot is St7001 with the 400G black box driving a hydraulic pump and cylinder that is attached to the steering quadrant with the standard cable, edsom wheel arrangement.

The auto pilot display is mounted in front of the compass using a 1in RamMount so that it can be rotated fro viewing from any angle as well.

I highly recommend integrated systems, but display location and readability is also very high on my priorities.

If you choose the ray marine route, and if multi’s are part of the deal I highly recommend the new graphic units. It is worth the extra cost. Also the 400G auto pilot processor seems to handle things much better then trying to adjust the old ones the old way. The software is much better. To my knowledge, most of the auto’s use a modification of a PID controller with 7 adjustable elements. Of course, as the conditions change so do the adjustments. The 400G self learns about your boat and so far, does so better then I could. After the auto learn process, user adjustments are normally only adjusting the response level as needs and conditions change. It also responds quicker to an up-set like a large wave. The old pilots would wait for the compass to show an error, where the new one senses lateral acceleration and reacts accordingly. It takes a little adjusting and getting use to, but reduces the amount of upset that would occur if the compass were the only input.

I have replaced both the speed sensor and wind sensor. Both failed pre-maturely. The wind one a no cost. The speed I paid for.

The only real complaint is that the lighting adjustments are too course. The lowest back lighting level is too bright for a no moon night and the off position, where the back lights are still on but very dim, is just a little too dim. I think they leave them on to heat the instruments to reduce condensation problems, just a guess.

There is a new system out that requires minimal wiring. It’s WiFi and solar powered except for the in-water stuff which needs power. Just a thought.

I just took things apart and ran the wires, where needed. It takes time, but is worth it in the end.

I found a dealer that would discount. That helped allot. And there were very supportive when I needed help.

Brian Guptil http://www.brigup.com206-818-3203 sailordude@…1735 112th Ave. N.E.Bellevue, WA. 98004-3706

----- Original Message -----
From: Brien
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 2:03 AM
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] New Instruments
Boat show season is upon us and it is time for me to replace my original Datamarine Corinthian series instruments on my F36/38. Thoughts? I have a functional Raymarine ST5000 autohelm with SeaTalk, so I suppose that’s a significant consideration when it comes to linking- or is it? Lots of choices out there, some with a longer track record than others. I like the display of Raymarine, the simplicity of B&G H1000 and the price of Navman.Secondly, my instruments have lived at the helm station, but for better visibility I am considering a relocation above the companionway in a pod-like structure. Has anyone done this? If so, what did you do and how did you run the wiring?Thanks for any input!

Posted by Brien Barnewolt (brienb@…>)

All-
Good comments.

Al- Glad to hear you are happy with the Raymarine. I’ll take a look at
the Nexus pod.

Doug- Not sure if the 5000 series is the same as the Corinthian. I’ll
look. Boat is 1988 vintage. My depth transducer works, speed log
transducer is broken but probably repairable and masthead unit out of
alignment with ill operating wind speed readouts. Adjustments can be
made for wind alignment at the back of the gauge, but alas, someone has
been there before and the adjusting screw is very badly marred. I’ll
get back to you about the 5000 vs Corinthian (I suspect they are
different).

Brian- Lots of good info- thanks. I did look at the Micronet TackTick
wireless instruments and I think someone on the board went with their
wind unit. At the Newport Boat show, one of the distributors (good
local reputation) did not speak well of the wind unit itself and
indicated they had a few returns with bad pixels in the display. He
admitted they didn’t push the product and my sense was that their
(distributor) experience was limited. I have not heard of anyone
reporting their personal experience. I like the wireless / solar combo
though.

Anybody with B&G H1000 or Navman experience? I know there was a
Practical Sailor article about a year ago or so, but I’m looking for
some real-life experiences.

Thanks again for the thoughts thus far.

Brien

----- Original Message -----
From: Brien
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 2:03 AM
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] New Instruments

Boat show season is upon us and it is time for me to replace my
original Datamarine
Corinthian series instruments on my F36/38. Thoughts? I have a
functional Raymarine
ST5000 autohelm with SeaTalk, so I suppose that’s a significant
consideration when it
comes to linking- or is it? Lots of choices out there, some with a
longer track record than
others. I like the display of Raymarine, the simplicity of B&G H1000
and the price of
Navman.

Secondly, my instruments have lived at the helm station, but for
better visibility I am
considering a relocation above the companionway in a pod-like
structure. Has anyone
done this? If so, what did you do and how did you run the wiring?

Thanks for any input!

Posted by brienb@… (brienb@…)

Brian-

With regard to your autohelm performance, how much of the improvement do you
think is due to the gyro feature of your unit versus simply the advanced
software? Raymarine sells a separate gyro that is primarily used for improved
MARPA and radar with chart overlay performance, but which will also interface
with an ST5000plus autohelm (which is what I have). This is on the list of
upgrades down the road, but cost of the gyro unit is significantly less than a
new control head.

What are your thoughts?

Thanks.

Brien


Instruments.
Lets start with the location thing. I have on all my boats placed the instruments, at the front of the cockpit. On the boats with off-center hatches they were on or near the centerline. Otherwise adjacent to the companionway. This way, all can see and the helmsperson is not stuck behind the wheel. On all the boats, this really allows flexibility for driving.

With this in mind, displays need to be large enough to be readable. The only draw-back is that occasionally you need to remind people to not stand in front of the instruments when they are at the front of the cockpit.

On S/V Dolphin, it was a previously installed integrated system with a central processor and multiple displays. I do not remember the manufacture, but have never seen another example.

On S/V Nereid, I replaced the original helm pod mounted instruments with Ray-Marine ST50 system, Tri-Data, wind and VMG to the right of the companionway, and a multi in the cabin. Integrated with multiple GPS sources and an ST7000 autopilot with the linear drive attached to the radial disk on the rudder post. The wind instrument needed bearing replacement every three years, otherwise, no failures.

On S/V Cayenne, I stuck with Ray, ST60. Tri-Data, Wind and the new graphic multi in the cockpit, a multi at the nav-sta and one in the main cabin. The auto pilot is St7001 with the 400G black box driving a hydraulic pump and cylinder that is attached to the steering quadrant with the standard cable, edsom wheel arrangement.

The auto pilot display is mounted in front of the compass using a 1in RamMount so that it can be rotated fro viewing from any angle as well.

I highly recommend integrated systems, but display location and readability is also very high on my priorities.

If you choose the ray marine route, and if multi’s are part of the deal I highly recommend the new graphic units. It is worth the extra cost. Also the 400G auto pilot processor seems to handle things much better then trying to adjust the old ones the old way. The software is much better. To my knowledge, most of the auto’s use a modification of a PID controller with 7 adjustable elements. Of course, as the conditions change so do the adjustments. The 400G self learns about your boat and so far, does so better then I could. After the auto learn process, user adjustments are normally only adjusting the response level as needs and conditions change. It also responds quicker to an up-set like a large wave. The old pilots would wait for the compass to show an error, where the new one senses lateral acceleration and reacts accordingly. It takes a little adjusting and getting use to, but reduces the amount of upset that would occur if the compass were the only input.

I have replaced both the speed sensor and wind sensor. Both failed pre-maturely. The wind one a no cost. The speed I paid for.

The only real complaint is that the lighting adjustments are too course. The lowest back lighting level is too bright for a no moon night and the off position, where the back lights are still on but very dim, is just a little too dim. I think they leave them on to heat the instruments to reduce condensation problems, just a guess.

There is a new system out that requires minimal wiring. It’s WiFi and solar powered except for the in-water stuff which needs power. Just a thought.

I just took things apart and ran the wires, where needed. It takes time, but is worth it in the end.

I found a dealer that would discount. That helped allot. And there were very supportive when I needed help.

Brian Guptil http://www.brigup.com206-818-3203 sailordude@…1735 112th Ave. N.E.Bellevue, WA. 98004-3706

----- Original Message -----
From: Brien
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 2:03 AM
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] New Instruments
Boat show season is upon us and it is time for me to replace my original Datamarine Corinthian series instruments on my F36/38. Thoughts? I have a functional Raymarine ST5000 autohelm with SeaTalk, so I suppose that’s a significant consideration when it comes to linking- or is it? Lots of choices out there, some with a longer track record than others. I like the display of Raymarine, the simplicity of B&G H1000 and the price of Navman.Secondly, my instruments have lived at the helm station, but for better visibility I am considering a relocation above the companionway in a pod-like structure. Has anyone done this? If so, what did you do and how did you run the wiring?Thanks for any input!

Posted by Brian Guptil (sailordude@…>)

Brien:

The 7001+ with the 400G is a highly integrated, next step in auto pilot performance. I am not sure that adding a high rate flux gate compass to an existing system would be worth the money unless you were going to get a benefit somewhere else like improving radar display of enhancing stability for navigation display systems.

Though I have not studied it, I believe that the unit of which you refer is a high sample rate flux gate compass. This will make error data available much faster and thus the auto pilot can react sooner. Better is to reacting to the cause of the upset rather then the result. In my opinion, sensing vertical and lateral acceleration in the bow would be best, but I am not an auto-pilot engineer. The distinction may seem minor, but when you steer in larger seas and are able to anticipate and thus add the counter rudder before the boat starts to swing, the amount of rudder needed and the energy required to apply that rudder is much less. Sensing the cause of the upset gives you that added edge. The 400G has an accelerometer in the control unit that senses lateral motion and can sense some displacement before the boat actually starts to turn and can thus apply counter before the upset, requiring much less rudder angle and energy.

I probably would go with your plan unless there was going to be a big buck upgrade that would include all elements of the system. Or unless you were going to sail around the world single handed.

Brian Guptil http://www.brigup.com206-818-3203 sailordude@…1735 112th Ave. N.E.Bellevue, WA. 98004-3706

----- Original Message -----
From: brienb@…
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 1:06 PM
Subject: Re: [freedomyachts2003] New Instruments
Brian-With regard to your autohelm performance, how much of the improvement do you think is due to the gyro feature of your unit versus simply the advanced software? Raymarine sells a separate gyro that is primarily used for improved MARPA and radar with chart overlay performance, but which will also interface with an ST5000plus autohelm (which is what I have). This is on the list of upgrades down the road, but cost of the gyro unit is significantly less than a new control head.What are your thoughts?Thanks.Brien

Posted by Brien Barnewolt (brienb@…>)

Doug-
Was on my boat this weekend. My Corinthian series is definitely
different than the 5000. Good luck with finding your display.

Brien


On Sep 22, 2004, at 10:58 PM, Doug Payne wrote:

Are your Data Marine instruments still working? What year is the boat?
I have I believe the 5000 series, is that the same as the Corinthian?
Mine work perfectly, I am not ready to upgrade, but have been looking
for the Nav Station base unit with readouts. I have of course displays
in the cockpit, but my base unit has just the chips, no display. I
understand these are modular and if I can find a used base unit with
display, I should be able to plug into my system. I am looking for
that base 5000 unit that has the displays and controls to switch
between functions.

Douglas M. Payne

Managing Partner Arizona Colorado

Tatum Partners

480-614-4915 Office

480-236-4561 Mobile

480-614-4916 Fax

doug.payne@…

TATUM PARTNERS

Financial and Information Technology Leadership

Tatum CFO Partners, LLP - Tatum CIO Partners, LLP www.tatumpartners.com

This electronic message is intended for the person or entity to which
it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
information. Any review, dissemination, copying, printing, or other
use of this electronic message by persons or entities other than the
addressee is prohibited. If you received this electronic message in
error, please contact the sender immediately and delete the electronic
message from any and all computers.

-----Original Message-----
From: Brien [mailto:brienb@…]
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 7:03 PM
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] New Instruments

Boat show season is upon us and it is time for me to replace my
original Datamarine
Corinthian series instruments on my F36/38. Thoughts? I have a
functional Raymarine
ST5000 autohelm with SeaTalk, so I suppose that’s a significant
consideration when it
comes to linking- or is it? Lots of choices out there, some with a
longer track record than
others. I like the display of Raymarine, the simplicity of B&G H1000
and the price of
Navman.

Secondly, my instruments have lived at the helm station, but for
better visibility I am
considering a relocation above the companionway in a pod-like
structure. Has anyone
done this? If so, what did you do and how did you run the wiring?

Thanks for any input!

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

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Posted by Ed Grey (ewlon3@…>)

DMI services Datamarine instruments and builds new
instuments compatible with Datamarine.

http://www.dmimarine.com/

ewlon

— Brien Barnewolt <brienb@…> wrote:

Doug-
Was on my boat this weekend. My Corinthian series is
definitely
different than the 5000. Good luck with finding your
display.

Brien

On Sep 22, 2004, at 10:58 PM, Doug Payne wrote:

Are your Data Marine instruments still working?
What year is the boat?
I have I believe the 5000 series, is that the same
as the Corinthian?
Mine work perfectly, I am not ready to upgrade,
but have been looking
for the Nav Station base unit with readouts. I
have of course displays
in the cockpit, but my base unit has just the
chips, no display. I
understand these are modular and if I can find a
used base unit with
display, I should be able to plug into my system.
I am looking for
that base 5000 unit that has the displays and
controls to switch
between functions.

Douglas M. Payne

Managing Partner Arizona Colorado

Tatum Partners

480-614-4915 Office

480-236-4561 Mobile

480-614-4916 Fax

doug.payne@…

TATUM PARTNERS

Financial and Information Technology Leadership

Tatum CFO Partners, LLP - Tatum CIO Partners, LLP
www.tatumpartners.com

This electronic message is intended for the person
or entity to which
it is addressed and may contain confidential
and/or privileged
information. Any review, dissemination, copying,
printing, or other
use of this electronic message by persons or
entities other than the
addressee is prohibited. If you received this
electronic message in
error, please contact the sender immediately and
delete the electronic
message from any and all computers.

-----Original Message-----
From: Brien [mailto:brienb@…]
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 7:03 PM
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] New Instruments

Boat show season is upon us and it is time for me
to replace my
original Datamarine
Corinthian series instruments on my F36/38.
Thoughts? I have a
functional Raymarine
ST5000 autohelm with SeaTalk, so I suppose that’s
a significant
consideration when it
comes to linking- or is it? Lots of choices out
there, some with a
longer track record than
others. I like the display of Raymarine, the
simplicity of B&G H1000
and the price of
Navman.

Secondly, my instruments have lived at the helm
station, but for
better visibility I am
considering a relocation above the companionway
in a pod-like
structure. Has anyone
done this? If so, what did you do and how did you
run the wiring?

Thanks for any input!

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

ADVERTISEMENT
<lrec_companion_043004.gif>
<l.gif>

Yahoo! Groups Links

• To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freedomyachts2003/

• To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
to:
freedomyachts2003-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

• Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
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