Posted by anderen@… (anderen@…)
I have problems getting the propane tanks filled for my F32.
I remember this issue was covered in the old forum which is now lost. What was
the solution? Getting a new valve to the old tank? Getting a new tank with the
new valve? Does there exist a “waiver” for this specific installation that can
be used to getting over the reluctance to fill? Was the horizontal installation
significant?
Any information would be helpful.
Thanks Bengt
Posted by Jerome M Weinraub (zayde@…>)
I assume your tanks are aluminum. You can take them to a propane distributor,and they will recertify your tanks and will install the new valves/Total cost for me was $100,including a refill. I have an F33,with 6 lb aluminum vertical tanks. Horizontal tanks are exempt,as no-one has designed a satisfactory valve for them.
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From: anderen@…
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 12:55 PM
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Propane tanks
I have problems getting the propane tanks filled for my F32.I remember this issue was covered in the old forum which is now lost. What was the solution? Getting a new valve to the old tank? Getting a new tank with the new valve? Does there exist a “waiver” for this specific installation that can be used to getting over the reluctance to fill? Was the horizontal installation significant?Any information would be helpful.Thanks BengtTo unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:freedomyachts2003-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYour use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Posted by gryvines (gvines@…>)
There are different"versions" of the vertical tanks as well. If the
tanks, as mine do on a 1986 F30, carry the model designation for a
commercial grade tank, then they can be recertified and refilled
without the installation of a new valve. My local propane
distributor did this for me simply by checking for the model number
stamped on the tank. It denotes a higher pressure capacity, and over-
rides the need for the pressure release valve.
Gary Vines
– In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, Jerome M Weinraub
<zayde@o…> wrote:
I assume your tanks are aluminum. You can take them to a propane
distributor,and they will recertify your tanks and will install the
new valves/Total cost for me was $100,including a refill. I have an
F33,with 6 lb aluminum vertical tanks. Horizontal tanks are exempt,as
no-one has designed a satisfactory valve for them.
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From: anderen@a…
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 12:55 PM
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Propane tanksI have problems getting the propane tanks filled for my F32.
I remember this issue was covered in the old forum which is now
lost. What was the solution? Getting a new valve to the old tank?
Getting a new tank with the new valve? Does there exist a “waiver”
for this specific installation that can be used to getting over the
reluctance to fill? Was the horizontal installation significant?
Any information would be helpful.
Thanks BengtYahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENTTo unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
freedomyachts2003-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYour use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
Posted by rick_simonds (rick_simonds@…>)
THESE TANKS ARE ALLOWED! SMALL HORIZONTAL TANKS MADE BEFORE A CERTAIN
YEAR (1995?) ARE EXEMPT FROM THE OPD VALVE RULE!
Under the rules small HORIZONTAL tanks are perfectly legal and
refillable without the new OPD valve (and an OPD valve does not exist
for them) but a lot of places don’t know that. I carry a copy of the
rules with me. Show it to them or insist they look it up.
They still won’t do it, though. And you’re really in trouble
when
they go out of certification, no one will touch them. A total
showstopper is if, like me, you have one with a bad valve. My the
valve on my spare tank is history and I can’t find a replacement
valve, no one will even talk to me about replacing it.
My solution is to become a “propane outlaw” :
They sell a brass fitting that allows you to refill those little
steel tanks, the ones that are used on Coleman lanterns and stuff.
This fitting isn’t all that common, I got mine on eBay but I’ve since
found them in the Harbor Freight Tools catalog.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=45989
It has a POL fitting (the old style, cone shaped, left hand thread
fitting is called a “POL” [for Prest-O-Lite] fitting) on one end and
a female thread that accepts the male threads of the small steel
Coleman tanks. The idea is you connect the small steel tank to a tank
from a barbeque grill, turn the barbecue tank upside down and
transfer the gas from the big tank to the small one. Wally World and
most barbeque grill places also sells a hose assembly that allows a
Coleman lantern to be hooked up to a large barbecue tank instead of
using the small steel tanks, a POL on one end and male Coleman
threads on the other. Buy one of each of these items. Also buy one of
those tubular, spring powered fish weighing scales of, say, 35-ish
lbs capacity.
Here’s the deal:
Turn all the tank valves off. Hook up the POL of the hose to a
regular barbeque tank. Screw the special refill fitting into the boat
tank. Put the barbeque tank on a picnic table, put the boat tank on
the ground. Loosely connect the hose coming from the barbecue tank to
the refill fitting. Turn the barbeque tank upside down. Open the
barbeque tank valve. Vent off the air in the hose assembly until a
little LP gas leaks out and then tighten the hose to the refill
fitting. Open the valve on the boat tank.
The propane will, over time, flow from the barbeque tank to the boat
tank. Periodically weigh the boat tank with the fishing scale. The
tank has a net and tare weight stamped into it, you’ll know by the
weight when it’s full. It can take some time, 30 minutes or more. The
boat tank should have a vent screw on the valve and it helps if you
periodically “burp” it; vent some pressure off the boat tank
to let
the liquid flow better. It also helps if the barbecue tank is heated
up a bit (by the sun, not by a blowtorch, though if I actually had to
tell you that perhaps this method is not for you.) It also helps if
the boat tank is chilled.
This method actually works quite well. It also isn’t too bad a rig to
have aboard anyway, just for refilling the tank in out of the way
places.
I usually just refill my own. It’s about as easy as chasing
around
getting them filled anyway.
Another F32 owner sent me a link that describes the method above
(with a few variations)
http://www.sailnet.com/collections/articles/index.cfm?
articleid=gounar0014%20%20&tfr=fp
PROPANE OUTLAWS UNITE!
Posted by Jerome M Weinraub (zayde@…>)
Propane tanks can be re-certified,if not in damaged condition,by any large propane distributor. Good for,I believe,5 years before having again to be re-certified.
----- Original Message -----
From: rick_simonds
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 7:17 PM
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Propane tanks
THESE TANKS ARE ALLOWED! SMALL HORIZONTAL TANKS MADE BEFORE A CERTAIN YEAR (1995?) ARE EXEMPT FROM THE OPD VALVE RULE!Under the rules small HORIZONTAL tanks are perfectly legal and refillable without the new OPD valve (and an OPD valve does not exist for them) but a lot of places don’t know that. I carry a copy of the rules with me. Show it to them or insist they look it up. They still won’t do it, though. And you’re really in troublewhen they go out of certification, no one will touch them. A total showstopper is if, like me, you have one with a bad valve. My the valve on my spare tank is history and I can’t find a replacement valve, no one will even talk to me about replacing it. My solution is to become a “propane outlaw” :They sell a brass fitting that allows you to refill those little steel tanks, the ones that are used on Coleman lanterns and stuff. This fitting isn’t all that common, I got mine on eBay but I’ve since found them in the Harbor Freight Tools catalog. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=45989It has a POL fitting (the old style, cone shaped, left hand thread fitting is called a “POL” [for Prest-O-Lite] fitting) on one end and a female thread that accepts the male threads of the small steel Coleman tanks. The idea is you connect the small steel tank to a tank from a barbeque grill, turn the barbecue tank upside down and transfer the gas from the big tank to the small one. Wally World and most barbeque grill places also sells a hose assembly that allows a Coleman lantern to be hooked up to a large barbecue tank instead of using the small steel tanks, a POL on one end and male Coleman threads on the other. Buy one of each of these items. Also buy one of those tubular, spring powered fish weighing scales of, say, 35-ish lbs capacity.Here’s the deal:Turn all the tank valves off. Hook up the POL of the hose to a regular barbeque tank. Screw the special refill fitting into the boat tank. Put the barbeque tank on a picnic table, put the boat tank on the ground. Loosely connect the hose coming from the barbecue tank to the refill fitting. Turn the barbeque tank upside down. Open the barbeque tank valve. Vent off the air in the hose assembly until a little LP gas leaks out and then tighten the hose to the refill fitting. Open the valve on the boat tank.The propane will, over time, flow from the barbeque tank to the boat tank. Periodically weigh the boat tank with the fishing scale. The tank has a net and tare weight stamped into it, you’ll know by the weight when it’s full. It can take some time, 30 minutes or more. The boat tank should have a vent screw on the valve and it helps if you periodically “burp” it; vent some pressure off the boat tankto let the liquid flow better. It also helps if the barbecue tank is heated up a bit (by the sun, not by a blowtorch, though if I actually had to tell you that perhaps this method is not for you.) It also helps if the boat tank is chilled. This method actually works quite well. It also isn’t too bad a rig to have aboard anyway, just for refilling the tank in out of the way places.I usually just refill my own. It’s about as easy as chasingaround getting them filled anyway.Another F32 owner sent me a link that describes the method above (with a few variations)http://www.sailnet.com/collections/articles/index.cfm?articleid=gounar0014%20%20&tfr=fpPROPANE OUTLAWS UNITE!To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:freedomyachts2003-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYour use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Posted by rick_simonds (rick_simonds@…>)
“Propane tanks can be re-certified,if not in damaged condition,…”
Normally, yes they can be. Normally it’s an easy process, regular
tanks in good shape can be re-certified nearly indefinitely,
especially aluminum ones. Normally old vertical valves are also
easily replaced with new OPD style valves. This is not a normal
circumstance, though. Horizontal tanks can not be used vertically,
vertical tanks can not be used horizontally. This is a SMALL,
HORIZONTAL, NON-OPD equipped tank. Only this tank or its exact clone
will work on an F32, no other tank will fit without major surgery to
the boat. An OPD valve is simply not made for a small horizontal
tank, not this tank or any other. Horizontal valves simply do not
exist, period, either as a replacement or by buying a whole new tank.
The problem is the propane guy takes one look at a tank without an
OPD valve and says no to re-certifying it. To them it is obsolete.
I’ve tried many times, at all the large LP gas companies in
Tallahassee that re-certify tanks every day. One was a company that
is aware of the small horizontal tank exemption and is willing to
fill it, but only while it’s in certification, others simply took
one
look and said no. All said they won’t re-certify without an OPD.
I
told them no OPD is available. They said, essentially, that’s
true
but tough; no OPD and they won`t touch it. All said an old style,
non-
OPD valve is simply not made anymore and they wouldn’t be allowed
to
install one even if they could find one. (It is seemingly simpler for
them to just walk me rather than taking the “risk” on a low priced
repair. A co-worker’s brother, who is in the LP business, is
looking
for a replacement horizontal valve and if he can find one in
someone’s old stock he will do the repair under the table.)
I have spent a lot of time on this problem. I found one local Quickie
Lube station (who fill propane tanks) who is willing to fill any
aluminum tank, certification or not, as long as it has a working
pressure relief device on the valve (it does.) I’m still OK for
now
with one tank but the leaking valve makes filling the spare tank
pointless.
After that, though, one valve on my spare tank is broken and
can’t be
replaced because they do not make the old style valve any more and no
one will install an old style valve anyway even if I find one. There
is also not a new style horizontal valve available and no one will re-
certify either tank without installing a new style valve. There IS a
new style vertical valve available but, if I install one, the tanks
won’t work in my boat.
Ever read the book “Catch-22”? My “propane outlaw” status is based on
the resulting three choices I have:
Posted by katorpus (katorpus@…>)
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, Jerome M Weinraub
<zayde@o…> wrote:
Yeah guys…if you DO this “aboard” (as suggested), then DON’T do
it “down below” (or by the light of that Coleman lantern
either)…as in the previous post, if you have to be TOLD this, then
the method probably isn’t for you.
Posted by sailingdream2003 (mbergero@…>)
As an owner of an '84 F32 myself, I have had the same difficulty
convincing anyone to refill my vertical tanks. It seems that we are
the only people on the planet who grasp the horozontal tank
exemption. I have also found that noone will even consider
recertification. If the businesses in the know refuse to recertify,
there is no way that anyone will fill a tank out of certification.
Aside from becoming a propane outlaw (which, in fact was suggested by
the guys mentioned above – nameless), I have been considering
alternatives. A thorough search of tank manufacturers
(ie:Worthington, the original manufacturer of the F32 tanks)reveals
no replacement, as others in this group have mentioned. If you are
into plastic surgery (OK, fiberglass)you may reconfigure the coaming
propane lockers to hold vertical 5 or 10 pound cylinders. This would
require not only fiberglass work but also possibly running new
tubing. Additionaly, you would be encroaching on other
compartments, especially the aft cabin. Another idea which is less
intrusive would be to install a commercial propane locker with
appropriate ventilation on deck (please don’t, for the sake of
Freedom owners everywhere)or in the sail locker. Would it be
possible to revise the cockpit seat cooler to hold a tank (does
anyone really use that thing anyway?)?
These are all simply theories; ideas which I have come up with to
deal with my dilemma before my current supply of propane runs out. I
have yet to get down into the lockers with tape measure in hand. I
also do not want to exacerbate the “listing to starboard” issue.
I hope you find this helpful and, please, if any of you have any
thoughts on these ideas (am I insane?) speak up. I can deal with the
cold beans but can’t live without my coffee and would really like to
extend my sailing season (cabin heater).
Posted by Bill Morris (bill@…>)
Can I ask if this problem is true in Rhode Island. Has anyone found someone to
fill the tanks?
Thanks.
Bill Morris
Posted by msheehan1 (msheehan1@…>)
I could not find anyone. I just ended up buying a new one.
– In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Bill Morris” <bill@r…>
wrote:
Can I ask if this problem is true in Rhode Island. Has anyone
found someone to fill the tanks?Thanks.
Bill Morris
–
William P. Morris
Social Studies Department Chair
Hugh B. Bain Middle School
135 Gansett Ave.
Cranston, RI 02910
Phone: 401.270.8562
Fax: 401.270.8171
http://schoolnotes.com/02910/wpmorris.html
bill@r…
Posted by Bill Williams (escbill@…>)
When I went to refill my tall propane tank this spring, the dealer
could not fill it due to the old style valve assembly. It has to do
with overflow protection. The tall tanks use a valve with a special
float, different than those on back yard barbecue tanks. I took my
tank to a large propane dealer here in San Marcos, CA who ordered the
correct valve and replaced it for less than $40.00 in two days. West
Marine also sells the same tank with the correct valve for around
$120.00.
Posted by ADScott (ADScott@…>)
Actually the valve is identical to the one in the back yard barbecue tank.
The issue under discussion is horizontaly mounted tanks. There is no
valve available for small horizontal tanks. If your tank mounts
horizontally DO NOT put it in your boat with the “new” valve you just
bought. If you do, you will have liquid propane flowing into your cabin!!
Posted by Bill Williams (escbill@…>)
In fact the valve is not identical to the backyard barbecue tank
valves. The tall, thin aluminum tank on my Freedom 36 is too narrow to
allow the anti-overfill device to work properly. There is a special
vertically oriented overfill prevention valve for these tanks, which
usually has to be special ordered by a propane company to refit older
tanks. They are available at a slightly higher cost than the normal
valve assembly, but should run under $40 including installation. At
least in California a propane refilling station will not refill tanks
with the older valve on them, making the changeover necessary.
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, ADScott <ADScott@f…> wrote:
Actually the valve is identical to the one in the back yard barbecue
tank.The issue under discussion is horizontaly mounted tanks. There is no
valve available for small horizontal tanks. If your tank mounts
horizontally DO NOT put it in your boat with the “new” valve you just
bought. If you do, you will have liquid propane flowing into your
cabin!!
Posted by sailingdream2003 (mbergero@…>)
Congratulations on having VERTICAL propane tanks. Your problems are
over. Unfortunately, we F32 owners have to deal with HOROZONTAL
tanks which are not compatible with any overfill protection device.
Replacing our valves with OPD valves would essentially shut the tank
down when placed horozontally. Sterno, anyone?
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Bill Williams”
<escbill@c…> wrote:
In fact the valve is not identical to the backyard barbecue tank
valves. The tall, thin aluminum tank on my Freedom 36 is too narrow
to
allow the anti-overfill device to work properly. There is a special
vertically oriented overfill prevention valve for these tanks, which
usually has to be special ordered by a propane company to refit
older
tanks. They are available at a slightly higher cost than the normal
valve assembly, but should run under $40 including installation. At
least in California a propane refilling station will not refill
tanks
with the older valve on them, making the changeover necessary.— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, ADScott <ADScott@f…>
wrote:Actually the valve is identical to the one in the back yard
barbecue
tank.
\The issue under discussion is horizontaly mounted tanks. There
is no
valve available for small horizontal tanks. If your tank mounts
horizontally DO NOT put it in your boat with the “new” valve you
just
bought. If you do, you will have liquid propane flowing into your
cabin!!
Posted by sv_mondaymorning (tommurphy@…>)
If you have older horizontal propane tanks, you do not have to convert
them to newer valves. The older tanks are legal as is. You may have
trouble finding a propane supplier who knows this, but the larger ones
generally do. This is horizontal tanks only.