PSS

Posted by Bob Weeks (rweeks6508@…>)


Well the feeling on the PSS is beginning
to really feel bad! It does not fit! Fortunately or unfortunately, I took a
picture with a tape measure above the length of the shaft unit. Using the rule
it verified what Al said about not fitting I forgot to take into account the
flange collar. I guess when you think you are done with your homework you
better do more!

Bob





From: Bob Weeks
[mailto:rweeks6508@…]
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008
8:29 PM
To:
FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [FreedomOwnersGroup]
Re: F-30 Original Depthmeter and Knotmeter

No I am not afraid of taking them out
while on the hard unless someone around the corner is building an ark!
What I am afraid of is not finding a proper replacement that fits without
alterations. With all this old stuff fear is, with my luck, nothing will
fit straight away. I am beginning to get “that” feeling about
the PSS I just bought……

Bob





From: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of katorpus
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008
8:15 PM
To: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Re:
F-30 Original Depthmeter and Knotmeter




Bob…

Uh…I’m NOT making fun of you here, but let me get this straight…

You’re afraid to remove the depthmeter & knotmeter transducers while
the boat is OUT of the water? Why? This is not a destructive process.

If the transducers are in such (apparent) bad shape (crumbling?) that
you are afraid to remove them for fear of not getting them back in,
then they NEED to be removed (and replaced) while the boat IS out of
the water (lest they disintegrate and stop sealing the holes they are
in).

Your worst case scenario is that you’ll need new transducers and
through hulls to go along with your new display. These generally are
available “all at once”. The only thing you need to do is match the
through-hull size to the hole that’s there already.

Replacing a through-hull while out of the water is not something that
should cause you a lot of heartburn. (It’s a little harder when
you’re afloat, but still do-able…requiring things like toilet
plungers (on the outside of the hull) and sealants which work when
applied to a wet surface).

You SHOULD (for reasons listed earlier) be comfortable with the
removal of the knotmeter transducer when the boat ISN’T out of the
water. If you do it now, then you can replace the O-rings on the
transducer and know that you won’t have problems with this once the
boat is back afloat. It probably wouldn’t hurt to replace the O-rings
on the depth transducer while you’re at it, although, once installed,
these are typically never removed (unless you pull it out while out
of the water to avoid having to mask it while applying bottom paint).

Best case scenario, you have your knotmeter & depthsounder
transducers out, and you are able to narrow your replacement-of-
display choices down to ones that will allow you to use the existing
through hull (and possibly the existing transducers). This will be a
whole lot easier to accomplish if you know what size they are and
where/how the ears (and slots on the throug hull) are configured.

As far as “not broke or leaking”…a missing depthsounder display
sounds pretty “broke” to me. I assume that you’ll want to take care
of this niggling detail before you start locating rocks and shoals by
ear.

If it SEEMS that what’s missing is “original to the boat” (mounted in

holes drilled at the factory, no “marks” on the backside of the
bulkhead indicating that more than the one (missing) display has ever
occupied that hole, etc), then maybe you can “poll” other owners of
sisterships of your boat and narrow down the search to one or two
manufacturers.

— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com,
“Bob Weeks”
<rweeks6508@…> wrote:

Thanks I will definitely keep this one in my on-board binder under …
tricks
and trade secrets….Fortunately its on the hard now and I can do
this anytime
before next May. Sorry I did not make it clear that I had this
option but
your detailed workaround will not go to waste. My problem is “if
its not
broke or leaking leave it alone”! As soon as I try to take it
apart I going
to find some wrong and come April I am still working on plugging the
hole!….no I am an optimist …. only I lean to the negative side
most
of the
time. It like my flange on my prop shaft…I want to replace the
packing
gland with a PSS. So first step is to uncouple the flange from the
flex
coupling , four bolts into a rubber gizmo….only took ¼ of a small
pint of
liquid wrench and 4 fours of fighting with the bolts….next the four
nuts
holding the flex coupling to the transmission flange…1/4 more
liquid wrench
and another 3 hours. So now you would think I am only a short way
from home
now! All day Saturday this past weekend with a flange puller,
plumber torch
and skinless knuckles and the thing has NOT moved a millimeter!
When down
to the marina office and filled out a work order (more boat bucks)
and
wished them luck! Sorry at my age I go out on tangent!

Bob


From: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of katorpus
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:09 PM
To: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Re: F-30 Original Depthmeter and
Knotmeter

Here’s how to get it out without sinking the boat

  1. Go buy a motorcycle inner tube…about the size of a moped ought
    to do it. It has to be big enough to fit over the transducer thru-
    hull and the “ears” on the transducer plug…but not a LOT bigger
    (a
    car tire tube is too big)

  2. Cut it across the tube (at the valve) so that you have one
    long “strand” with the valve at one end. Then cut off the piece
    with
    the valve and throw it away.

  3. Slip one end of the tube over the thru-hull (with the transducer
    still in place and whatever’s left of the wire inside the tube) and
    hose clamp it to the thru-hull with two hose clamps below the level
    of the “ears” on the transducer. Fold over any excess neatly
    before
    clamping…you’re creating a seal here.

  4. Elevate the other end of the tube ABOVE the waterline of the
    boat…attach it with a piece of line to a handy overhead grab rail
    or something, but poke a hole for the line and don’t “tie the end
    shut”

  5. Without pulling the tube off of the thru hull in the process,
    turn
    the transducer so that it disengages from the thru hull (on mine,
    this is about 1/16th of a turn counterclockwise…but figure out
    how
    much before putting on the tube)

  6. Work the transducer up the inner tube until you can get it out
    the
    open end.

The only water which will flow through the thru-hull is whatever it
takes to fill the tube up to the level of the waterline. As long as
the other end of the tube stays above the waterline, NONE of this
will enter the boat.

Measure your transducer (including the distance from the ears to
BOTH
ends of the transducer and the size of the ears) and then reverse
the
process to put it back in. Don’t spend a week doing this, and don’t
go off and leave the boat with the transducer OUT.

When you order a new one, also get the “plug” that should have
been
lying around in the boat somewhere in the first place. It’s best to
pull the paddlewheel transducer and plug the hole when you go off
and
leave the boat. Barnacles and slime mess up its action. (To clean
one
off, soak it a while in vinegar, then scrub it.) I spray mine with
SailKote before reinstalling it.

This wouldn’t work if the wire coming out of the transducer hadn’t
already been cut (unless you disconnected the other end and fed the
whole length of it down the wire).

You CAN always avoid this rigamarole with the innertube if you get
a
friend (who isn’t easily distracted) and just have him slap the
open
end of a rubber dishwashing glove over the end of the transducer
thru
hull and hold it in place by hand after you pull the transducer
out…he’ll only be there long enough for you to get the
measurements
and put it back in…the slots in the side of the thru-hull (which
the ears engage)prevent you from being able to do this by simply
placing your hand over it.

You won’t get much water in the bilge doing this…if you use the
inner tube, you can “milk” it back down if you want and you
won’t
spill a cup’s worth.

The water flow through an opening in the hull is directly related
to
the size of the hole and the distance BELOW the waterline. If
you’ve
ever just pulled out a transducer and slapped in a plug, it SEEMS
like it’s flowing at a GREAT rate, and it’s not really intuitive
that
it won’t flow at all if the “other end” of the “hole”
is above the
waterline, but it won’t.

Steve Dashew builds his (aluminum) hulls with a minimum number of
through hulls…dumping all the discharges into a 4" to 6" pipe
that’s open at the top. As long as the top of the pipe is above the
waterline at any potential angle of heel, it won’t flood.

If you think about it, an “outboard well” works the same
way…with
a
much bigger hole.

— In FreedomOwnersGroup@ <mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup%
40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com, “Al Lorman” <ajl@>
wrote:

Bob:

Almost all the depth transducers sold in the US are made by
Airmar. However, they are not all alike; there are a variety of
frequencies used. If you know the frequency of the depth
transducer,
you could probably find a matching display head. I do not know, but
I seriously doubt, that there is any standardization in
paddlewheels.

Al Lorman

F30 Ab Initio

From: FreedomOwnersGroup@ <mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup%
40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
[mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup@ <mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup%
40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 4:17 PM
To: FreedomOwnersGroup@ <mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup%
40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FreedomOwnersGroup] F-30 Original Depthmeter and
Knotmeter

Looking for experts on this subject. Can the transducers be using
or fed into other mfg products? The depthmeter works rather well
and
the little paddle wheel on the knotmeter turns freely but its
disconnected and I do not know where the past owner put display for
the knots, if its still around. I am afraid to pull them out of the
hull even thought the connections are still clean looking and
bright
red and from the bottom they also still look good. If I pull them I
will find the any replacement will need either a bigger or smaller
hole so therefore I would like to just take the electrical output
and
feed it into something else. Any suggestions? Oh I call the mfg and
they were clueless! I am assuming they send electrical current that
is then converted to a scaled output and is useable to a display.
The
question then I guess is there a standard?

Bob
“Oh buying a New Old Boat is so much fun!”


\

Posted by brigup (sailordude@…>)


Shaft Seals


I have been using ‘dripless shaft seals’ on my last 4 vessels, a twin diesel powerboat, 2 “Last Drop” followed by PSS on a F32, F36 and now a F44 where PSS was available and he Last Drop was not.

Both the 36 and 44 were a bit problematic due to the short distance between the stern tube and coupling. Along with the dripless shaft seals, I replaced the shaft couplings on all as I ONCE experienced a shaft backing-out of the coupling and on the 44 I removed and replaced the stern tube since it was weeping at the hull, tube interface. In most cases, the only thing holding the shaft in the coupling is a “set screw.” Think about that during an emergency stop! I sure do not want to experience a shaft back-out again. Driving on one engine, having the rudders jammed and a 1 1/4in hole the the hull, is not a warm fuzzy experience. OF course, followed by a quick swim.

On the 36, I had a coupling made, that was shorter and also, had a clamp system that prevented shaft backing out. There isn’t much room, but it can be done. On the 44, there was enough room for an isolator between the transmission and the new coupling, but again, the PSS is a bit difficult on instillation.

As in all significant changes, it is important to check the instillation after a sea trial and then after a couple of days use.

I prefer a dry bilge. Oh, on the 44ft twin diesel power the seals were “Last Drop,” All remainder instillation were with PSS.


Brian, F44




On 1/16/08 9:16 PM, “Bob Weeks” <rweeks6508@…> wrote:


Well the feeling on the PSS is beginning to really feel bad! It does not fit! Fortunately or unfortunately, I took a picture with a tape measure above the length of the shaft unit. Using the rule it verified what Al said about not fitting I forgot to take into account the flange collar. I guess when you think you are done with your homework you better do more!

Bob





\

Posted by George Huffman (thatboatguy2@…>)

There was a PSS installed in our boat and I seriously considered
taking it back to an old fashioned packing gland. Our boat had sat in
the water pretty much neglected for 10 years. There was pitting on
the surface of the metal collar portion of the seal and the set screws
were stripped out and in a horrible location to get to. I have a
dealership with PYI so after inspecting the rest of the set up
(essentially the bellows) I went ahead and purchased a new collar at
the same time as buying a new shaft and coupling and drive saver. The
latter items because I changed the transmission out from the old
clunker Paragon to a Hurth gear. I have since made friends with a
machine shop guy who owns a searay and will always be on the deficit
side favor wise with me… heh heh So I’ll have him re-surface the
old collar for me and fix the set screw situation so I’ll have a
spare. I’m a big fan of a hose clamp (juniper clip) on the shaft
forward of the gland as a cheap safety measure. I also installed the
R&D damper plate while I was at it. That’s a bit of an experiment and
you can bet there will be an all metal spare in the locker.

George

Posted by Bob Weeks (rweeks6508@…>)


I spoke to a guy today from Lasdrop who
makes several shaft seal options. The one that is workable is very much like
the Syntron at a faction of the cost. Both operate on the same principles and are
similar in style. Not sure if Yahoo allows pics if not
go to http://www.lasdrop.com/products.php
and check out Dry-Seal. Has anyone hear any comments or experience with
Lasdrop.

Bob





From: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of George Huffman
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008
7:11 PM
To:
FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Re:
PSS




There was a PSS installed in our boat and I seriously
considered
taking it back to an old fashioned packing gland. Our boat had sat in
the water pretty much neglected for 10 years. There was pitting on
the surface of the metal collar portion of the seal and the set screws
were stripped out and in a horrible location to get to. I have a
dealership with PYI so after inspecting the rest of the set up
(essentially the bellows) I went ahead and purchased a new collar at
the same time as buying a new shaft and coupling and drive saver. The
latter items because I changed the transmission out from the old
clunker Paragon to a Hurth
gear. I have since made friends with a
machine shop guy who owns a searay and will always be on the deficit
side favor wise with me… heh heh So I’ll have him re-surface the
old collar for me and fix the set screw situation so I’ll have a
spare. I’m a big fan of a hose clamp (juniper clip) on the shaft
forward of the gland as a cheap safety measure. I also installed the
R&D damper plate while I was at it. That’s a bit of an experiment and
you can bet there will be an all metal spare in the locker.

George



Attachment: (image/jpeg) image002.jpg [not stored]

Posted by Bob Weeks (rweeks6508@…>)


What did you think of the Lasdrop seals?

Bob





From: brigup
[mailto:sailordude@…]
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008
9:38 AM
To:
FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com; ‘Bob Weeks’
Subject: Re: [FreedomOwnersGroup]
PSS

Shaft Seals


I have been using ‘dripless shaft seals’ on my last 4 vessels, a
twin diesel powerboat, 2 “Last Drop” followed by PSS on a F32, F36
and now a F44 where PSS was available and he Last Drop was not.

Both the 36 and 44 were a bit problematic due to the short distance between the
stern tube and coupling. Along with the dripless shaft seals, I replaced
the shaft couplings on all as I ONCE experienced a shaft backing-out of the
coupling and on the 44 I removed and replaced the stern tube since it was
weeping at the hull, tube interface. In most cases, the only thing
holding the shaft in the coupling is a “set screw.” Think about
that during an emergency stop! I sure do not want to experience a shaft
back-out again. Driving on one engine, having the rudders jammed and a 1
1/4in hole the the hull, is not a warm fuzzy experience. OF course,
followed by a quick swim.

On the 36, I had a coupling made, that was shorter and also, had a clamp system
that prevented shaft backing out. There isn’t much room, but it can
be done. On the 44, there was enough room for an isolator between the
transmission and the new coupling, but again, the PSS is a bit difficult on
instillation.

As in all significant changes, it is important to check the instillation after
a sea trial and then after a couple of days use.

I prefer a dry bilge. Oh, on the 44ft twin diesel power the seals were
“Last Drop,” All remainder instillation were with PSS.


Brian, F44




On 1/16/08 9:16 PM, “Bob Weeks” <rweeks6508@…> wrote:

Well the feeling on the PSS is beginning to
really feel bad! It does not fit! Fortunately or unfortunately, I
took a picture with a tape measure above the length of the shaft unit.
Using the rule it verified what Al said about not fitting I forgot to take into
account the flange collar. I guess when you think you are done with your
homework you better do more!

Bob




\

Posted by Rees Midgley (rmidgley@…>)
I have no experience with Lasdrop but did replaced my seal with another Syntron in my 1968 F36/38 sloop. The man who did the work used to work at the Freedom factory when my boat was made. While a PSS could fit, he strongly advised me not to use one as it would mean compressing the bellows more than should be done in my boat.Your image of the Lasdrop came through beautifully. My query to others: if we can include photos with text, why do we need to put the photos into a separate site? Is this solely for archival purposes? The alternative is just to store the messages. Disk space is very cheap. - ReesOn Jan 17, 2008, at 8:44 PM, Bob Weeks wrote:I spoke to a guy today from Lasdrop who makes several shaft seal options. The one that is workable is very much like the Syntron at a faction of the cost. Both operate on the same principles and are similar in style. <image002.jpg> Not sure if Yahoo allows pics if not go tohttp://www.lasdrop.com/products.php and check out Dry-Seal. Has anyone hear any comments or experience with Lasdrop. Bob From: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of George HuffmanSent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 7:11 PMTo: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.comSubject: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Re: PSS There was a PSS installed in our boat and I seriously consideredtaking it back to an old fashioned packing gland. Our boat had sat inthe water pretty much neglected for 10 years. There was pitting onthe surface of the metal collar portion of the seal and the set screwswere stripped out and in a horrible location to get to. I have adealership with PYI so after inspecting the rest of the set up(essentially the bellows) I went ahead and purchased a new collar atthe same time as buying a new shaft and coupling and drive saver. Thelatter items because I changed the transmission out from the oldclunker Paragon to a Hurth gear. I have since made friends with amachine shop guy who owns a searay and will always be on the deficitside favor wise with me… heh heh So I’ll have him re-surface theold collar for me and fix the set screw situation so I’ll have aspare. I’m a big fan of a hose clamp (juniper clip) on the shaftforward of the gland as a cheap safety measure. I also installed theR&D damper plate while I was at it. That’s a bit of an experiment andyou can bet there will be an all metal spare in the locker. George