Posted by John Stevens (john@…>)
Has anyone had any problems with the bolsa core getting damaged over time with their boat? I just looked at an F32 in New York that has this problem? Is this a common problem?
John
Posted by michel.capel (michel.capel@…>)
John,
Most balsa cored boats (Freedoms also) develop wet or black (=rotted)
spots of balsa core over time. I’ve not heard of common problems of
wet hulls, decks with wet or black balsa spots are common around
hardware. Most of us here have had to correct some of these problems
when replacing hardware. As long as the balsa has not rotted away
completely, it maintains the structural strength of the area. The
balsa is used to keep the two layers of laminate away from each other,
which creates stifness in the structure. If it’s black, the stifness
diminishes dramatically; if it’s just wet, drain it and dry it and
you’ll be okay for the next few years.
Wet or rotted balsa in a hull is a sign of punctures, collision, etc.
It can be remedied, but I would not put my money in a boat that is
evidently wet in the hull. There enough Freedoms on the market to let
this one slip by.
good luck,
michel
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, John Stevens <john@…>
wrote:
Has anyone had any problems with the bolsa core getting damaged over
time
with their boat? I just looked at an F32 in New York that has this
problem?
Is this a common problem?John
Posted by Wilfred Bishop (wilf.bishop@…>)
Hi Guys,
I can recommend two recent technical papers on the effect of moisture pick-up on Balsa cored boat hull structures:
Wet Balsa Core - Author Rick Strand
Professional Boatbuilder Magazine - August/September Issue 2005
Durability of End-Grain Balsa Core Materials in the Marine Environment
Authors Kurt Feichtinger, Wenguang Ma
SAMPE Journal, Vol 42, No 4, July/August 2006
Both of these papers describe work sponsored by Alcan Baltek Corporation and the general theme of the papers is that as long as the core is not damaged by decay the retained mechanical properties of wet core is acceptable. I find this information to be encouraging and of great help in assessing the appropriate repair action for balsa cored hulls.
Wilf Bishop
----- Original Message -----
From: michel.capel
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 8:21 AM
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Bolsa Core Below the waterline
John,Most balsa cored boats (Freedoms also) develop wet or black (=rotted) spots of balsa core over time. I’ve not heard of common problems of wet hulls, decks with wet or black balsa spots are common around hardware. Most of us here have had to correct some of these problems when replacing hardware. As long as the balsa has not rotted away completely, it maintains the structural strength of the area. The balsa is used to keep the two layers of laminate away from each other, which creates stifness in the structure. If it’s black, the stifness diminishes dramatically; if it’s just wet, drain it and dry it and you’ll be okay for the next few years. Wet or rotted balsa in a hull is a sign of punctures, collision, etc. It can be remedied, but I would not put my money in a boat that is evidently wet in the hull. There enough Freedoms on the market to let this one slip by.good luck,michel— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, John Stevens <john@…> wrote:>> > Has anyone had any problems with the bolsa core getting damaged over time> with their boat? I just looked at an F32 in New York that has this problem?> Is this a common problem?> > John>
Posted by William A. Cormack (wacormack@…>)
But, consider the source. They have a vested interest in balsa cores.
----- Original Message -----
From: Wilfred Bishop
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 07/19/2006 5:08 AM
Subject: Re: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Bolsa Core Below the waterline
Hi Guys,
I can recommend two recent technical papers on the effect of moisture pick-up on Balsa cored boat hull structures:
Wet Balsa Core - Author Rick Strand
Professional Boatbuilder Magazine - August/September Issue 2005
Durability of End-Grain Balsa Core Materials in the Marine Environment
Authors Kurt Feichtinger, Wenguang Ma
SAMPE Journal, Vol 42, No 4, July/August 2006
Both of these papers describe work sponsored by Alcan Baltek Corporation and the general theme of the papers is that as long as the core is not damaged by decay the retained mechanical properties of wet core is acceptable. I find this information to be encouraging and of great help in assessing the appropriate repair action for balsa cored hulls.
Wilf Bishop
----- Original Message -----
From: michel.capel
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 8:21 AM
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Bolsa Core Below the waterline
John,Most balsa cored boats (Freedoms also) develop wet or black (=rotted) spots of balsa core over time. I’ve not heard of common problems of wet hulls, decks with wet or black balsa spots are common around hardware. Most of us here have had to correct some of these problems when replacing hardware. As long as the balsa has not rotted away completely, it maintains the structural strength of the area. The balsa is used to keep the two layers of laminate away from each other, which creates stifness in the structure. If it’s black, the stifness diminishes dramatically; if it’s just wet, drain it and dry it and you’ll be okay for the next few years. Wet or rotted balsa in a hull is a sign of punctures, collision, etc. It can be remedied, but I would not put my money in a boat that is evidently wet in the hull. There enough Freedoms on the market to let this one slip by.good luck,michel— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, John Stevens <john@…> wrote:>> > Has anyone had any problems with the bolsa core getting damaged over time> with their boat? I just looked at an F32 in New York that has this problem?> Is this a common problem?> > John>
Posted by CMarshall (cmars@…>)
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, John Stevens <john@…> wrote:
Has anyone had any problems with the bolsa core getting damaged over
time
with their boat? I just looked at an F32 in New York that has this
problem?
Is this a common problem?John
Most likely you are talking about my boat at Haverstraw, NY. It seems
to be a mystery as what happened to this boat. The readings are high
around some of the above water through hull items. The area under the
aft berth portlight reads high. Below some of the through hull vents
for tanks read high. This along with some areas below the water line.
This is a 1983 F32 hull number 4. I assume all smallish boats out of
TPI at this time might have similiar problems. Baltek said end grain
balsa wouldn’t let water travel. Pearson did a test with soaking a
laminate with holes for a few months and all was okay.
My surveyor didn’t use a meter but sounded the hull and said all was
okay. The meter doesn’t tell you about the condition of the balsa.
Charles
Posted by Thomas Wales (twales@…>)
I had high moisture readings around 2 of my thru hulls. I had them removed
and the core dried out (it had not turned black). The yard then filled the
area around the thru hull with epoxy and re-bedded and installed the
through hulls. Not a bad job. TSP was supposed to have solid glass around
all through hulls but did seem to miss a few. Other than that, the hull
has good integrity.
TW F32 #20 (1984) Anoush Koon
At 03:34 PM 7/20/2006 +0000, you wrote:
— In
mailto:freedomyachts2003%40yahoogroups.comfreedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com,
John Stevens <john@…> wrote:Has anyone had any problems with the bolsa core getting damaged over
time
with their boat? I just looked at an F32 in New York that has this
problem?
Is this a common problem?John
Most likely you are talking about my boat at Haverstraw, NY. It seems
to be a mystery as what happened to this boat. The readings are high
around some of the above water through hull items. The area under the
aft berth portlight reads high. Below some of the through hull vents
for tanks read high. This along with some areas below the water line.
This is a 1983 F32 hull number 4. I assume all smallish boats out of
TPI at this time might have similiar problems. Baltek said end grain
balsa wouldn’t let water travel. Pearson did a test with soaking a
laminate with holes for a few months and all was okay.
My surveyor didn’t use a meter but sounded the hull and said all was
okay. The meter doesn’t tell you about the condition of the balsa.
CharlesNo virus found in this incoming message.
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Posted by Sward (swardfullsail@…>)
I have a water reading under the aft portlight also. I have been told that unless this area is exposed to the air, that deterioration will not happen. As with trees that are in the water-the area above the waterline has deteriorated, but the trunk under the waterline is not. It is the air that creates that.CMarshall <cmars@…> wrote: — In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, John Stevens <john@…> wrote:>> > Has anyone
had any problems with the bolsa core getting damaged over time> with their boat? I just looked at an F32 in New York that has this problem?> Is this a common problem?> > John>Most likely you are talking about my boat at Haverstraw, NY. It seems to be a mystery as what happened to this boat. The readings are high around some of the above water through hull items. The area under the aft berth portlight reads high. Below some of the through hull vents for tanks read high. This along with some areas below the water line. This is a 1983 F32 hull number 4. I assume all smallish boats out of TPI at this time might have similiar problems. Baltek said end grain balsa wouldn’t let water travel. Pearson did a test with soaking a laminate with holes for a few months and all was okay. My surveyor didn’t use a meter but sounded the hull and said all was okay. The meter doesn’t tell you about the
condition of the balsa.Charles
Posted by michel.capel (michel.capel@…>)
Don’t trust there measuring meters. Nobody knows what they really
read; water, moist, metal, etc. It can also be a bit of water in
the outer or inner laminate and not in the core. Do a real test and
drill small holes in the outer laminate and core. If you pull out
the drill slowly, you immediately know what’s really going on. Do
the drilling samples in presence of a prospective owner and if the
drill comes out with flaky balsa each time, he’ll be convinced that
the boat’s okay.
good luck,
Michel
Oh yeah, don’t forget to fill the holes with epoxy putty.
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “CMarshall” <cmars@…>
wrote:
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, John Stevens <john@>
wrote:Has anyone had any problems with the bolsa core getting damaged
over
time
with their boat? I just looked at an F32 in New York that has
this
problem?
Is this a common problem?John
Most likely you are talking about my boat at Haverstraw, NY. It
seems
to be a mystery as what happened to this boat. The readings are
high
around some of the above water through hull items. The area under
the
aft berth portlight reads high. Below some of the through hull
vents
for tanks read high. This along with some areas below the water
line.
This is a 1983 F32 hull number 4. I assume all smallish boats out
of
TPI at this time might have similiar problems. Baltek said end
grain
balsa wouldn’t let water travel. Pearson did a test with soaking
a
laminate with holes for a few months and all was okay.
My surveyor didn’t use a meter but sounded the hull and said all
was
okay. The meter doesn’t tell you about the condition of the balsa.
Charles
Posted by Kevin P. Taylor (kevin@…>)
If the worst case scenario develops and the boat’s core is black
where the surveyor claims there is moisture, what is the process of
repairing it?
Thanks,
–Kevin
On Jul 22, 2006, at 10:32 AM, michel.capel wrote:
Don’t trust there measuring meters. Nobody knows what they really
read; water, moist, metal, etc. It can also be a bit of water in
the outer or inner laminate and not in the core. Do a real test and
drill small holes in the outer laminate and core. If you pull out
the drill slowly, you immediately know what’s really going on. Do
the drilling samples in presence of a prospective owner and if the
drill comes out with flaky balsa each time, he’ll be convinced that
the boat’s okay.good luck,
MichelOh yeah, don’t forget to fill the holes with epoxy putty.
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “CMarshall” <cmars@…>
wrote:— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, John Stevens <john@>
wrote:Has anyone had any problems with the bolsa core getting damaged
over
time
with their boat? I just looked at an F32 in New York that has
this
problem?
Is this a common problem?John
Most likely you are talking about my boat at Haverstraw, NY. It
seems
to be a mystery as what happened to this boat. The readings are
high
around some of the above water through hull items. The area under
the
aft berth portlight reads high. Below some of the through hull
vents
for tanks read high. This along with some areas below the water
line.
This is a 1983 F32 hull number 4. I assume all smallish boats out
of
TPI at this time might have similiar problems. Baltek said end
grain
balsa wouldn’t let water travel. Pearson did a test with soaking
a
laminate with holes for a few months and all was okay.
My surveyor didn’t use a meter but sounded the hull and said all
was
okay. The meter doesn’t tell you about the condition of the balsa.
Charles–vsg5dpzmdbNWrmRBmkMVlG0PB-1bt8fIxjgk4-z
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit<div id="ygrp-text"> <p>Don't trust there measuring meters. Nobody knowswhat they really
read; water, moist, metal, etc. It can also be a bit of water in
the outer or inner laminate and not in the core. Do a real test and
drill small holes in the outer laminate and core. If you pull out
the drill slowly, you immediately know what’s really going on. Do
the drilling samples in presence of a prospective owner and if the
drill comes out with flaky balsa each time, he’ll be convinced that
the boat’s okay.
good luck,
Michel
Oh yeah, don’t forget to fill the holes with epoxy putty.
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com,
“CMarshall” <cmars@…>
wrote:
--- In–vsg5dpzmdbNWrmRBmkMVlG0PB-1bt8fIxjgk4-z–
Posted by Thomas Wales (twales@…>)
I went through the “worst case” last year. The boat I purchased had been
damaged in a storm and had 2 areas of delamination topsides, one on either
side. You hire a competent fiberglass technician who cuts away the outer
skin, removes the black balsa core, replaces it with new balsa, and
re-fiberglasses the effected area. The trick is matching the gel coat
color to avoid painting the whole boat. My yard took a sample of the
existing gelcoat and had the manufacturer match the color, which they did
quite nicely. Once they have finished, you can use a “one step” wax and
blend the color in and it will look pretty good. Be prepared to spend
several thousand dollars, depending on the yard you use and the size of the
repair.
Good luck,
TW F32 #20 Anoush Koon
At 07:10 AM 7/24/2006 -0500, you wrote:
If the worst case scenario develops and the boat’s core is black
where the surveyor claims there is moisture, what is the process of
repairing it?Thanks,
–KevinOn Jul 22, 2006, at 10:32 AM, michel.capel wrote:
Don’t trust there measuring meters. Nobody knows what they really
read; water, moist, metal, etc. It can also be a bit of water in
the outer or inner laminate and not in the core. Do a real test and
drill small holes in the outer laminate and core. If you pull out
the drill slowly, you immediately know what’s really going on. Do
the drilling samples in presence of a prospective owner and if the
drill comes out with flaky balsa each time, he’ll be convinced that
the boat’s okay.good luck,
MichelOh yeah, don’t forget to fill the holes with epoxy putty.
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “CMarshall” <cmars@…>
wrote:— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, John Stevens <john@>
wrote:Has anyone had any problems with the bolsa core getting damaged
over
time
with their boat? I just looked at an F32 in New York that has
this
problem?
Is this a common problem?John
Most likely you are talking about my boat at Haverstraw, NY. It
seems
to be a mystery as what happened to this boat. The readings are
high
around some of the above water through hull items. The area under
the
aft berth portlight reads high. Below some of the through hull
vents
for tanks read high. This along with some areas below the water
line.
This is a 1983 F32 hull number 4. I assume all smallish boats out
of
TPI at this time might have similiar problems. Baltek said end
grain
balsa wouldn’t let water travel. Pearson did a test with soaking
a
laminate with holes for a few months and all was okay.
My surveyor didn’t use a meter but sounded the hull and said all
was
okay. The meter doesn’t tell you about the condition of the balsa.
Charles–vsg5dpzmdbNWrmRBmkMVlG0PB-1bt8fIxjgk4-z
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit<div id="ygrp-text"> <p>Don't trust there measuring meters. Nobody knowswhat they really
read; water, moist, metal, etc. It can also be a bit of water in
the outer or inner laminate and not in the core. Do a real test and
drill small holes in the outer laminate and core. If you pull out
the drill slowly, you immediately know what’s really going on. Do
the drilling samples in presence of a prospective owner and if the
drill comes out with flaky balsa each time, he’ll be convinced that
the boat’s okay.
good luck,
Michel
Oh yeah, don’t forget to fill the holes with epoxy putty.
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com,
“CMarshall” <cmars@…>
wrote:
--- In–vsg5dpzmdbNWrmRBmkMVlG0PB-1bt8fIxjgk4-z–
Yahoo! Groups Links
–
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.4/396 - Release Date: 7/24/2006
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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
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Posted by Paul McFadden (pwhitmac@…>)
There is a pretty good article on the use of moisture meters in the latest issue of Prosessional Boatbuilder. Well worth reading. PWM"michel.capel" <michel.capel@…> wrote: Don’t trust there measuring meters. Nobody knows what they really read; water, moist, metal, etc. It can also be a bit of water in the outer or inner laminate and not in the core. Do a real test and drill small holes in the outer laminate and core. If you pull out the drill slowly, you immediately know what’s really going on.
Do the drilling samples in presence of a prospective owner and if the drill comes out with flaky balsa each time, he’ll be convinced that the boat’s okay.good luck, MichelOh yeah, don’t forget to fill the holes with epoxy putty.— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “CMarshall” <cmars@…> wrote:>> — In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, John Stevens <john@> wrote:> >> > > > Has anyone had any problems with the bolsa core getting damaged over > time> > with their boat? I just looked at an F32 in New York that has this > problem?> > Is this a common problem?> > > > John> >> > Most likely you are talking about my boat at Haverstraw, NY. It seems
to be a mystery as what happened to this boat. The readings are high > around some of the above water through hull items. The area under the > aft berth portlight reads high. Below some of the through hull vents > for tanks read high. This along with some areas below the water line. > This is a 1983 F32 hull number 4. I assume all smallish boats out of > TPI at this time might have similiar problems. Baltek said end grain > balsa wouldn’t let water travel. Pearson did a test with soaking a > laminate with holes for a few months and all was okay. > My surveyor didn’t use a meter but sounded the hull and said all was > okay. The meter doesn’t tell you about the condition of the balsa.> Charles>
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Posted by Dave_Benjamin (dave_benjamin@…>)
Definitely worht reading. Thanks!
I just bought a Protimeter Aquant. Seems to work pretty well.
Ultimately core samples are the final word but if the hammer and the
meter point to a problem it’s probably there. I bought the meter
because I discovered that on some older boats with thick upper skins
that the percussion testing won’t always give you the truth.
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, Paul McFadden
<pwhitmac@…> wrote:
There is a pretty good article on the use of moisture meters in
the latest issue of Prosessional Boatbuilder. Well worth reading.
PWM“michel.capel” <michel.capel@…> wrote:
Don’t trust there measuring meters. Nobody knows what
they really
read; water, moist, metal, etc. It can also be a bit of water in
the outer or inner laminate and not in the core. Do a real test
and
drill small holes in the outer laminate and core. If you pull out
the drill slowly, you immediately know what’s really going on. Do
the drilling samples in presence of a prospective owner and if the
drill comes out with flaky balsa each time, he’ll be convinced
that
the boat’s okay.good luck,
MichelOh yeah, don’t forget to fill the holes with epoxy putty.
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “CMarshall” <cmars@>
wrote:— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, John Stevens <john@>
wrote:Has anyone had any problems with the bolsa core getting
damaged
over
time
with their boat? I just looked at an F32 in New York that has
this
problem?
Is this a common problem?John
Most likely you are talking about my boat at Haverstraw, NY. It
seems
to be a mystery as what happened to this boat. The readings are
high
around some of the above water through hull items. The area
under
the
aft berth portlight reads high. Below some of the through hull
vents
for tanks read high. This along with some areas below the water
line.
This is a 1983 F32 hull number 4. I assume all smallish boats
out
of
TPI at this time might have similiar problems. Baltek said end
grain
balsa wouldn’t let water travel. Pearson did a test with soaking
a
laminate with holes for a few months and all was okay.
My surveyor didn’t use a meter but sounded the hull and said all
was
okay. The meter doesn’t tell you about the condition of the
balsa.
Charles
Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free.