RE: F36/F38 Headliner Replacement - Follow Up Ideas for Mike

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1

Posted by James Farrell (jamesfarrell177@…>)

Mike:
I also had the same problem on my 1987 F38 (F36) with the headliner. After
showing some signs of wear and tear, it basically collapsed over the winter
of 2003/2004 while stored in Maine. And I replaced it in the same manner as
detailed by “tlynchlaw”. I also bought my headliner from Paul Dennis at the
Warren River Boatworks (401-245-6949). I also used the Henry 356 Adhesive
(from Home Depot) that Paul suggested. I replaced some of the rotted panels
with new plywood (1/8 inch from JTs in Bristol, RI). I did some additional
things which I have outlined below.

I would encourage you not to go cheap on this job and not to take shortcuts
or use inferior products. Use the headliner material that Paul sells. He has
a few different types. Otherwise you’ll face this project again very soon.
And it’s a nightmare so you don’t want to have to repeat this. I took Paul’s
advise to the letter and did it right. And, while not trying to boast, I can
tell you that the new headliner is beautiful. It also provides some
soundproofing and some insulation too (the boat is heated).

It’s tricky bending the new panels to get through the companionway. But it
can be done. Practice with the old panels after removing them. I cracked two
new completed panels (finished them at home in Rhode Island and hauled them
to Maine!!!) when going through the companionway. But I epoxied some braces
(1/8 plywood scraps) on the back and that took care of the job nicely. I
wish I would have thought of using sail ties as tlynchlaw did. That would
have made it easier.

Let me add some details and notes (perhaps others have done this too). I
also reused some of the plywood after removing the old foam and adhesive (or
I used the old plywood as templates for new panels). But I also applied some
sanding sealer (shellac works too) to the up-side facing the cabin trunk so
that an occasional drip or condensation will not start the process of
rotting the 1/8 inch plywood prematurely.

When you have the ceiling panels down, consider doing the following (if you
feel compelled) becasue the opportunity is right and one day you’ll likely
have to do this anyway.

  1. Re-bed deck hardware. TPI did a maringal job originally - route out some
    core and back fill with epoxy and then redrill holes. I also pulled the
    double-stack Shaefer block that handles all of the lines to the mast and
    installed new sheaves.
  2. Check and/or replace the overhead cabin lights and wiring. I replaced all
    of my wiring with Ancor wiring and shrinked wrapped the connections.
  3. This is also a good time to add some lights or re-think your cabin
    lighting. I added dome lights in the V-berth, just outside the head door
    between the head and the main salon vanity, a dome light over the dinnette
    and one in the aft berth just aft of the doorway.
  4. The grab rails are fastened from underneath the cabin trunk. This is a
    great time to pull them off, strip and re-refinish them.
  5. I also pull the travler bridge off and refinished it. You’ll likely have
    to buy new bolts that, when re-installed will have to have the excess length
    cut off to accommodate the headliner.
  6. One thing I wish I wouldl have done but didn’t is to beef up the backing
    to the standing block that accommodates the mainsheet. There’s not a lot of
    “beef” there to withstand the loading. This is where I had some leaking that
    ruined the headliner in the galley and nav station area in the first place.
  7. One trick to note is since you’re working with a core cabin trunk, the
    screw holes will get stripped out easily. You will likely have to back-fill
    with an epoxy-filling mix and redrill. This is what I had to do to get the
    interior grab rail re-mounted securely.
  8. I also replaced the headliner in the aft berth. I added an access door to
    the one of the panels so that I can use the space under the starboard
    cockpit coaming. There’s a ton of storage space there.

If you would like to discuss this more, I’ll be happy to speak with you on
the phone. Email me privately at jamesfarrell177@… and we’ll trade
numbers. Jim F.

2

Posted by macks011 (macks04@…>)

A neat way to recore the fasteners with the head liner down and also
to reinforce them greatly. Using a 2-1/16" hole saw, drill through
the bottom layer of glass and into the balsa core. Remove the plug
and clean out the hole. Using 2" dia Garolite rods ( item 8526K31
from McMaster Carr) slice a disk of the appropriate thickness and
epoxy it in place. Repair the bottom glass with West Epoxy and 2
layers of 24oz cloth. Gives you an immensely strong fitting with no
possibility of rotted core.

In addition to the hand rails and traveler,I did a variation of this
with the overhead grab rail. It was only screwed into the bottom
layer of glass. I cored out and installed the garolite with the
addition of T Nuts epoxied to the back of the Garolite discs. Now
the handrail is bolted to the overhead and secure.

Like you, I also passed on reinforcing the mainsheet turning block
(rationalized that the traveler was taking the load.)

Some more notes: Henry 356 is also good for the sagging carpet in
the V berth. However, you must let it get tacky before relaying the
material.

The way the companionway hatch is constructed makes these boats
susceptable to core damage around the companion way which can spread
a great distance. The damage is done by the screws that hold the
seahood down and the screws that hold the slider track. The
extrusion to which these items are secured is hollow. Water gets in
there and then into the core. Take a 2" core drill and core out just
the bottom layer of glass at a few locations. Save the glass disc.
test the core with a blade. If dry, epoxy the disc back in place. If
not, start chasing core. I wound up replacing 8 sf.

When I rebedded the slider rails, the opportunity presented itself
to replace the crazed, UV damaged slider hatch. For small money,
upgraded to 1/2" acrylic which is better able to bear my weight.


— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “James Farrell”
<jamesfarrell177@m…> wrote:

Mike:
I also had the same problem on my 1987 F38 (F36) with the
headliner. After
showing some signs of wear and tear, it basically collapsed over
the winter
of 2003/2004 while stored in Maine. And I replaced it in the same
manner as
detailed by “tlynchlaw”. I also bought my headliner from Paul
Dennis at the
Warren River Boatworks (401-245-6949). I also used the Henry 356
Adhesive
(from Home Depot) that Paul suggested. I replaced some of the
rotted panels
with new plywood (1/8 inch from JTs in Bristol, RI). I did some
additional
things which I have outlined below.

I would encourage you not to go cheap on this job and not to take
shortcuts
or use inferior products. Use the headliner material that Paul
sells. He has
a few different types. Otherwise you’ll face this project again
very soon.
And it’s a nightmare so you don’t want to have to repeat this. I
took Paul’s
advise to the letter and did it right. And, while not trying to
boast, I can
tell you that the new headliner is beautiful. It also provides
some
soundproofing and some insulation too (the boat is heated).

It’s tricky bending the new panels to get through the
companionway. But it
can be done. Practice with the old panels after removing them. I
cracked two
new completed panels (finished them at home in Rhode Island and
hauled them
to Maine!!!) when going through the companionway. But I epoxied
some braces
(1/8 plywood scraps) on the back and that took care of the job
nicely. I
wish I would have thought of using sail ties as tlynchlaw did.
That would
have made it easier.

Let me add some details and notes (perhaps others have done this
too). I
also reused some of the plywood after removing the old foam and
adhesive (or
I used the old plywood as templates for new panels). But I also
applied some
sanding sealer (shellac works too) to the up-side facing the cabin
trunk so
that an occasional drip or condensation will not start the process
of
rotting the 1/8 inch plywood prematurely.

When you have the ceiling panels down, consider doing the
following (if you
feel compelled) becasue the opportunity is right and one day
you’ll likely
have to do this anyway.

  1. Re-bed deck hardware. TPI did a maringal job originally - route
    out some
    core and back fill with epoxy and then redrill holes. I also
    pulled the
    double-stack Shaefer block that handles all of the lines to the
    mast and
    installed new sheaves.
  2. Check and/or replace the overhead cabin lights and wiring. I
    replaced all
    of my wiring with Ancor wiring and shrinked wrapped the
    connections.
  3. This is also a good time to add some lights or re-think your
    cabin
    lighting. I added dome lights in the V-berth, just outside the
    head door
    between the head and the main salon vanity, a dome light over the
    dinnette
    and one in the aft berth just aft of the doorway.
  4. The grab rails are fastened from underneath the cabin trunk.
    This is a
    great time to pull them off, strip and re-refinish them.
  5. I also pull the travler bridge off and refinished it. You’ll
    likely have
    to buy new bolts that, when re-installed will have to have the
    excess length
    cut off to accommodate the headliner.
  6. One thing I wish I wouldl have done but didn’t is to beef up
    the backing
    to the standing block that accommodates the mainsheet. There’s not
    a lot of
    “beef” there to withstand the loading. This is where I had some
    leaking that
    ruined the headliner in the galley and nav station area in the
    first place.
  7. One trick to note is since you’re working with a core cabin
    trunk, the
    screw holes will get stripped out easily. You will likely have to
    back-fill
    with an epoxy-filling mix and redrill. This is what I had to do to
    get the
    interior grab rail re-mounted securely.
  8. I also replaced the headliner in the aft berth. I added an
    access door to
    the one of the panels so that I can use the space under the
    starboard
    cockpit coaming. There’s a ton of storage space there.

If you would like to discuss this more, I’ll be happy to speak
with you on
the phone. Email me privately at jamesfarrell177@m… and we’ll
trade
numbers. Jim F.

3

Posted by michel.capel (michel.capel@…>)

Good suggestions indeed!

In stead of creating storage space, I’m thinking of installing deck
vents (e.g. mushrooms) on top of the coamings (or on the outside of
the coamings) and down to the aft cabin and nav cabin. I also want
to install the chimney for my Dickinson heater and one or two dorade
vents on the coachroof now that the headliner is down.

Any helpful thoughts on this are welcomed.

Permanent ventilation was apparently not yet invented when my boat
was built 25 years ago. That’s why most of my headliner panels have
rotted away in the damp Gulf coast climate.

michel


— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “James Farrell”
<jamesfarrell177@…> wrote:

Mike:
I also had the same problem on my 1987 F38 (F36) with the
headliner. After
showing some signs of wear and tear, it basically collapsed over
the winter
of 2003/2004 while stored in Maine. And I replaced it in the same
manner as
detailed by “tlynchlaw”. I also bought my headliner from Paul
Dennis at the
Warren River Boatworks (401-245-6949). I also used the Henry 356
Adhesive
(from Home Depot) that Paul suggested. I replaced some of the
rotted panels
with new plywood (1/8 inch from JTs in Bristol, RI). I did some
additional
things which I have outlined below.

I would encourage you not to go cheap on this job and not to take
shortcuts
or use inferior products. Use the headliner material that Paul
sells. He has
a few different types. Otherwise you’ll face this project again
very soon.
And it’s a nightmare so you don’t want to have to repeat this. I
took Paul’s
advise to the letter and did it right. And, while not trying to
boast, I can
tell you that the new headliner is beautiful. It also provides
some
soundproofing and some insulation too (the boat is heated).

It’s tricky bending the new panels to get through the
companionway. But it
can be done. Practice with the old panels after removing them. I
cracked two
new completed panels (finished them at home in Rhode Island and
hauled them
to Maine!!!) when going through the companionway. But I epoxied
some braces
(1/8 plywood scraps) on the back and that took care of the job
nicely. I
wish I would have thought of using sail ties as tlynchlaw did.
That would
have made it easier.

Let me add some details and notes (perhaps others have done this
too). I
also reused some of the plywood after removing the old foam and
adhesive (or
I used the old plywood as templates for new panels). But I also
applied some
sanding sealer (shellac works too) to the up-side facing the cabin
trunk so
that an occasional drip or condensation will not start the process
of
rotting the 1/8 inch plywood prematurely.

When you have the ceiling panels down, consider doing the
following (if you
feel compelled) becasue the opportunity is right and one day
you’ll likely
have to do this anyway.

  1. Re-bed deck hardware. TPI did a maringal job originally - route
    out some
    core and back fill with epoxy and then redrill holes. I also
    pulled the
    double-stack Shaefer block that handles all of the lines to the
    mast and
    installed new sheaves.
  2. Check and/or replace the overhead cabin lights and wiring. I
    replaced all
    of my wiring with Ancor wiring and shrinked wrapped the
    connections.
  3. This is also a good time to add some lights or re-think your
    cabin
    lighting. I added dome lights in the V-berth, just outside the
    head door
    between the head and the main salon vanity, a dome light over the
    dinnette
    and one in the aft berth just aft of the doorway.
  4. The grab rails are fastened from underneath the cabin trunk.
    This is a
    great time to pull them off, strip and re-refinish them.
  5. I also pull the travler bridge off and refinished it. You’ll
    likely have
    to buy new bolts that, when re-installed will have to have the
    excess length
    cut off to accommodate the headliner.
  6. One thing I wish I wouldl have done but didn’t is to beef up
    the backing
    to the standing block that accommodates the mainsheet. There’s not
    a lot of
    “beef” there to withstand the loading. This is where I had some
    leaking that
    ruined the headliner in the galley and nav station area in the
    first place.
  7. One trick to note is since you’re working with a core cabin
    trunk, the
    screw holes will get stripped out easily. You will likely have to
    back-fill
    with an epoxy-filling mix and redrill. This is what I had to do to
    get the
    interior grab rail re-mounted securely.
  8. I also replaced the headliner in the aft berth. I added an
    access door to
    the one of the panels so that I can use the space under the
    starboard
    cockpit coaming. There’s a ton of storage space there.

If you would like to discuss this more, I’ll be happy to speak
with you on
the phone. Email me privately at jamesfarrell177@… and we’ll
trade
numbers. Jim F.