Posted by Fargo Rousseau (fargo_r@…>)
I suspect that all Freedoms sail around at anchor. Certainly our F30 was a lively sailor on and off the hook. It is a very tiresome motion that we did not get used to…and did like because of the potential to make the anchor unstable.In an attempt to reduce this natural tendency we borrowed a riding sail from our sail-maker and used it for a few months in southern Florida when the wind picked up. It was about 35 square feet in area. We used the main halyard to hoist the sail and tied the tack down with a line leading to the main sheet traveler, and stretched the clew back with two lines leading over our Bimini to the aft cleats at the corners of the deck in a Y configuration. This helped… a little…but no more than a little. Duel anchor lines, set out in a Y configuration worked great…but wind shifts are a natural part of all storms. So the lovely Y you set up to start with is not the Y you will need later…say at 3 am in the
morning after the front passes.Steve Dashew, who has a lot of experience with this problem, uses a Y pair of riding sails, quite small in size…and claims they work perfectly. We wanted to do this but never got the second sail made (the two sails are usually sewed together along the leading edge, by the way). Since the problem becomes a real problem when the wind kicks up…you need to consider size very carefully. You need to increase the “sailing” area of the boat…well aft…but don’t want deal with a really large sail flapping in the wind. And you don’t want to add too much additional windage…or air drag…when the boat is pointed directly into the wind. Remember, these sails will be most useful when the wind is really blowing hard…really hard.When we moved, reluctantly, to an all chain anchor setup…the sailing problem almost died out completely. Our 5/16 chain, dragging along the bottom, dampens out this sailing oscillation quite
effectively. It is not a perfect solution, and when I want to completely kill the tendency I know I will build the Dashew riding pair. (my reluctance on the all chain setup was almost entirely related to adding over 120# right up in the nose of the F30. It sure put the bow down near its designed water line and picked up the stern a little…and the boat handled the addition very well. But my ex-racer brain still hates the idea).Fargo Ex owner of F30 #12…and still Freedom lover
Posted by svfantasy@… (svfantasy@…>)
Just thought I would throw in my two cents regarding this issue. My 1981 Freedom 40 CK “Fantasy” uses all 3/8 chain with a chain grabber tied to each bow cleat. I’ve never had a problem sailing at anchor, and I often anchor at Half Moon Bay, Ca. which is often a very windy harbor. Maybe my dodger and full bimini (w/ solar panels overhead) add additional windage aft, minimizing this problem.
Jay Glen
s/v Fantasy
SF Bay, Ca
Posted by nuagesail (nuagesailing@…>)
I own a CK 33 and she sits like a duck, head to wind. I used the
mizzen once to keep her headed but found it wasn’t needed. She has a
low dodger.
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “svfantasy@…”
<svfantasy@…> wrote:
Just thought I would throw in my two cents regarding this issue.
My 1981 Freedom 40 CK “Fantasy” uses all 3/8 chain with a chain
grabber tied to each bow cleat. I’ve never had a problem sailing at
anchor, and I often anchor at Half Moon Bay, Ca. which is often a
very windy harbor. Maybe my dodger and full bimini (w/ solar panels
overhead) add additional windage aft, minimizing this problem.Jay Glen
s/v Fantasy
SF Bay, Ca
Posted by andre laviolette (andrelaviolette@…>)
I said the F45 sails at anchor like crazy ! Not Ketches ! Mast in the bow only ! Fin keels are no help either but to a lesser extent. It’ s all a question of windage and center of lateral resistance. nuagesail <nuagesailing@…> wrote: I own a CK 33 and she sits like a duck, head to wind. I used the mizzen once to keep her headed but found it wasn’t needed. She has a low dodger.— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “svfantasy@…” <svfantasy@…> wrote:>> > Just thought I would throw in my two cents regarding this issue. My 1981 Freedom 40 CK “Fantasy” uses all 3/8 chain with a chain grabber tied to each bow cleat. I’ve never had a problem sailing at anchor, and I often anchor at Half Moon Bay, Ca. which is often a very windy harbor. Maybe my dodger and full bimini (w/ solar panels overhead) add additional windage aft, minimizing this problem.> > Jay Glen> > s/v Fantasy> > SF Bay, Ca>
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Posted by michel.capel (michel.capel@…>)
Jay,
I have the same experience on my F33 as you have. Perhaps the fact
that we anchor on chain only helps prevent sailing at anchor?
Michel
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “svfantasy@…”
<svfantasy@…> wrote:
Just thought I would throw in my two cents regarding this issue. My
1981 Freedom 40 CK “Fantasy” uses all 3/8 chain with a chain grabber
tied to each bow cleat. I’ve never had a problem sailing at anchor,
and I often anchor at Half Moon Bay, Ca. which is often a very windy
harbor. Maybe my dodger and full bimini (w/ solar panels overhead)
add additional windage aft, minimizing this problem.Jay Glen
s/v Fantasy
SF Bay, Ca
Posted by jerry weinraub (zayde@…>)
No. Same with my 33 using 5/8 nylon
----- Original Message -----
From: michel.capel
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 8:33 AM
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Cat Ketch sailing around at anchor, Cat-Sloops, also
Jay,I have the same experience on my F33 as you have. Perhaps the fact that we anchor on chain only helps prevent sailing at anchor?Michel— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “svfantasy@…” <svfantasy@…> wrote:>> > Just thought I would throw in my two cents regarding this issue. My 1981 Freedom 40 CK “Fantasy” uses all 3/8 chain with a chain grabber tied to each bow cleat. I’ve never had a problem sailing at anchor, and I often anchor at Half Moon Bay, Ca. which is often a very windy harbor. Maybe my dodger and full bimini (w/ solar panels overhead) add additional windage aft, minimizing this problem.> > Jay Glen> > s/v Fantasy> > SF Bay, Ca>
Posted by Fargo Rousseau (fargo_r@…>)
Great to hear that the CK models of Freedom ride so well at anchor in a breeze, chain or rode. Our single mast F30 did not. Fargojerry weinraub <zayde@…> wrote: No. Same with my 33 using 5/8 nylon -----
Original Message ----- From: michel.capel To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 8:33 AM Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Cat Ketch sailing around at anchor, Cat-Sloops, also Jay,I have the same experience on my F33 as you have. Perhaps the fact that we anchor on chain only helps prevent sailing at anchor?Michel— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “svfantasy@…” <svfantasy@…> wrote:>> > Just thought I would throw in my two cents regarding this issue. My 1981 Freedom 40 CK “Fantasy” uses all 3/8 chain with a chain grabber tied to each bow cleat. I’ve
never had a problem sailing at anchor, and I often anchor at Half Moon Bay, Ca. which is often a very windy harbor. Maybe my dodger and full bimini (w/ solar panels overhead) add additional windage aft, minimizing this problem.> > Jay Glen> > s/v Fantasy> > SF Bay, Ca>
Posted by Brian Guptil (sailordude@…>)
My current Freedom and the two before it, hunted. The 44, with 230ft chain in front of 300ft nylon, but anchored 7:1 in 10ft, starts hunting at 12 to 15. By 40mph I need to put the engine in “Reverse” at about 1,000RPM, which keeps the boat from moving up-wind on the radius of the anchoring circle. I wonder what I am doing wrong. If I didn’t do the engine thing, when the bow fell through the eye of the wind, the chain would go slack.
Brian
Posted by andre laviolette (andrelaviolette@…>)
The technique that seems to work best to stop the hunting, is to anchor "Bahamian " style, i.e. 2 anchors. One to port and one to starboard BUT almost 180 degrees apart. (160 * ? ) Both long rodes ( heavy is better ) are the brought in quite tight ! Not the best for holding but it keeps the bow in one spot.Brian Guptil <sailordude@…> wrote: My current Freedom and the two before it, hunted. The 44, with 230ft
chain in front of 300ft nylon, but anchored 7:1 in 10ft, starts hunting at 12 to 15. By 40mph I need to put the engine in “Reverse” at about 1,000RPM, which keeps the boat from moving up-wind on the radius of the anchoring circle. I wonder what I am doing wrong. If I didn’t do the engine thing, when the bow fell through the eye of the wind, the chain would go slack. Brian
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Posted by David Jensen (hopalongsail@…>)
Our 39-foot cat ketch, Hopalong, also likes to horse around at anchor. A riding sail on the mizzen (not the mizzen, although that could be used) cuts this down a lot. The riding sail is merely a loose-footed, flat triangle, hoist on the mizzen halyard and tied off at the stern pulpit. Additionally, the sail cover on the mizzen drapes around the mast and downward so that it covers a hard vang, creating sort of a triangle sail shape just aft of the mast. We have found that if we pull the boom out to one side or the other, which allows the sun to hit our solar panels on top of our bimini, and tie off the boom, that provides a steadying influence, much as if we were hove to. Sally and David Jensens/v Hopalong
Posted by Dave_Benjamin (dave_benjamin@…>)
David and Sally,
You two still south of the border in Mexico?
There’s a chance I might be back in our old neighborhood pretty soon.
This time I won’t make the mistake of leaving unless it’s for points
south. At least you guys had the good sense to turn left.
Posted by webmaster (akusinitz@…>)
On my 33 I use all chain but sail at
anchor quite a bit once the wind gets up around 18-20 knots. Not sure what the
difference would be. Perhaps my sail cover arrangement (mack packs) present
different windage. I sometimes raise the mizzen just a few feet and that stops
it.
Alan F-33 Hull #51 1982
From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com [mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jerry weinraub
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007
9:23 AM
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [freedomyachts2003]
Re: Cat Ketch sailing around at anchor, Cat-Sloops, also
No. Same with my 33 using 5/8 nylon
----- Original Message -----
From: michel.capel
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, February
10, 2007 8:33 AM
Subject:
[freedomyachts2003] Re: Cat Ketch sailing around at anchor, Cat-Sloops, also
\
Jay,
I have the same experience on my F33 as you have. Perhaps the fact
that we anchor on chain only helps prevent sailing at anchor?
Michel
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com,
“svfantasy@…”
<svfantasy@…> wrote:
Just thought I would throw in my two cents regarding this issue. My
1981 Freedom 40 CK “Fantasy” uses all 3/8 chain with a chain grabber
tied to each bow cleat. I’ve never had a problem sailing at anchor,
and I often anchor at Half Moon Bay, Ca. which is often a very windy
harbor. Maybe my dodger and full bimini (w/ solar panels overhead)
add additional windage aft, minimizing this problem.Jay Glen
s/v Fantasy
SF Bay, Ca
\