Geoff
The first reef was 80 feet and second 100. Initially I had planned on 80for the second and 65 for the first but I had neglected to realize that where the reefing line exits the front of the boom it needs to go DOWN to a block on the deck before it goes up to the reef hook on the luff and then again down to a block and back to the cockpit. That up and down was needed to get the force going in the right direction on the blocks in the front of the boom. Hope this makes sense.
We broke our blocks for our internal reefing lines in our first trip to the Channel Islands, circa 1991. Removed the lines. Never reefed again. If I have to reef, I’ll just as soon drop the main. She’ll go to weather, somewhat, under jib alone in 30+ knots.
I do one reef at about 18kt winds, two at about 22-23kt, and drop the main at about 25. Anything else is just uncomfortable. My reefing system works very well, is very easy to operate.
Reviving an old conversation here as I’ve been doing some reading as I’m planning to get my reefing lines setup correctly on my F32. This thread, in particular Ed’s commentary, appears to best reflect my setup (no blocks in boom).
Looking to confirm routing of lines and hoping to take advantage of experience of others as I plan this out.
Here’s how I currently plan to run the reefing lines:
Line runs from cockpit to block at base of mast and up to reefing block on sail
from block on sail line runs down to second block (or second shieve in a double block?) at base of mast then back up to boom end shieve
from boom end shieve, line runs through boom to block at aft end and up through reefing loop in sail then tie around boom.
My boom has 3 shieves at each end, I am presuming 2 for the 1st and 2nd reefing lines and one for outhaul.
I’m unsure if this is too many up/down runs, or if it’ll even itself out as I reef with this setup, but seems the only way I can run a single line without blocks in the boom.
Thoughts?
Sounds right to me, a lot of up and down at the mast, but works so smoothly compared to all the issues I had with the butterfly in the boom.
Thanks Ed! Just need to determine my lengths then, I’ll start with yours as guidance and downsize for 32.
I been following this reefing thread and though I have an F33, the reefing system is very similar except for one detail which I am confused why this differnce exists betwen the two systems. First , I have to say I also do not have internal butterfly blocks in my boom. Starting from the leech the line is tied around boom goes up to reef cringle in leach then down to sheave in boom end , through boom then under sheave in boom end at gooseneck then up to a reef-block attached to a reef hook in luff cringle then down to turning block at mast base then aft to line clutch at cockpit. This route saves one extra round trip up and down at mast. I find it interesting that though both systems are so similar this difference should exist. BTW, I also have the three sheaves in each end of boom , the center for outhaul and the outer two for first, second and flatening reef.
I have a 40/40, sister ship to Geoff’s, and use in boom blocks . I use two reef lines. The sail and boom are set up to add a 3rd reef point, but if the wind is that strong, I find it best to just drop the main altogether. I am not sure how you can equalize the tension on the clew and tack without the in boom blocks. My system works very well, as long as I keep the blocks lubricated and use good reefing lines. A few years ago I was having some problems with the lines not releasing easily as I raised the main until I installed new reef lines. The older lines were originals from 1995, and seemed to create too much friction on the blocks, and one of the blocks broke and I had it welded back together. Once I replaced the old lines with new ones, it worked like a charm. Sail goes up smoothly without having to fiddle much with the reef lines, and pulling them in as I incrementally drop the main is pretty easy.
So this was an alternative approach I was considering, as it actually appears that there’s more room for the line to exit under the sheave coming out of the fore end of the boom. Any issues with it binding, or things falling out of place when the sail is raised/ lowered without reefing? I wonder if there’s any wear on the line as it’ll lay on the bottom of the boom exit when not under tension against the block on the sail?
There are blocks in the boom for the outhaul but not for the reef lines. Just another datapoint here but my reef line is different, it doesn’t go from the sail back down to the deck and then back up to the boom. My line goes from the cockpit to the base of the mast, up from the base of the mast, and then it does sort of an S turn at the mast end of the boom between two fixed (non-rotating) posts. There’s sort of a flat vertical surface build into the forward end of the boom. There are two posts with a plate over them on that flat surface. The line goes between the posts, forward to aft, under the plate. After that S turn it goes up through the block on the sail and then back down to the sheeve at the mast end of the boom. From there it through the boom, through the sheeves at the aft end of the boom, up through the cringle in the sail and back down to the boom to be tied off.
When you pull the reefing line it will pull the block on the luff of the sail until it ends up in line with the two fixed posts and the line going down the inside of the boom. That happens first, the luff of the mainsail has now been pulled down to the boom, and then the reefing line will begin to pull the leech of the mainsail down to the boom.
Thanks Rick. My setup sounds like yours, although there’s one shieve behind that plate on the lower part, so I could run around that and behind the upper piece, which while not a shieve, seems to be a spacer that does rotate. From the block on the sail down to the boom, that should also work fine, where running the line under the shieve as it enters the boom, actually provides more room for the line.
Regarding the outhaul, I can see that there’s a cable that ends above the center shieve at the mast end of the boom, but can’t see what it’s connected to , if anything. Currently the outhaul is a line which connects to a cable mid boom, and then run back to the cockpit. I was thinking that if there is a block in there, I could just run the outhaul back to the first cleat attached to the bottom of the boom and attach there, since the block making it 2:1 would at least give enough power to keep the foot of the sail sufficiently straight from the clew. Does yours end in a cable where the outhaul attaches to the clew, or just a good quality line?
The final connection leading from inside the boom to the clew of the sail is wire, not rope, leading around the center sheave. My outhaul seems to be fairly strong, maybe a 3 or 4 to 1 advantage. The working end of the outhaul comes out the forward, bottom sheave on the boom as rope. I did change the rope once but its been so long since I’ve been in there messing with that mechanism, I really don’t remember exactly how many blocks or how it works. My very hazy recollection is there are blocks on the end of wire leaders from each end of the boom with the rope running between them 3 or 4 times. From memory, the forward wire is held with a clevis pin of some sort, near the gooseneck.
Thanks Rick. I’ll see what I can figure out in there, your description is helpful in what I need to look for. Not a lot of room to work in the mast end of the boom!
Rick’s description of his reefing setup reflects how mine is rigged too. I do a lot of reefing in the SF Bay. I have blocks at the tack and clew of each reef point to reduce friction but I constantly experience twists in the reefing line which force me to go forward and sort things out. That s certainly my fault but I have tried a variety of coiling approaches for the stored reefing line and I can’t seem to find a way to prevent the twists.
With regard to the outhaul. Mine is semi jammed and I cannot for the life of me figure out how to get at the block in the boom. How do you get at that darn thing? Does the boom end cap have to be removed?
I took my boom end cap off last weekend to look at the outfall arrangement.
The outfall wire from the clew runs over the center sheave into the boom and is shackled to a becket on a single block. A line runs forward from the mast end of the boom and is routed through another becket on the other end of the block (not through the pulley) and thence forward to exit the boom near the mast. I could pull the block out of the boom when I un-cleated the mast end of the outfall line and pulled the block out.
I plan on pulling the outfall line back from the mast end with a follower line attached and re-rout it through the pulley. I also plan on installing a 5" Harken magic box (no longer available as far as I know) that I happen to have in the boom between the wire from the clew and the becket on the pulley. Should give me plenty of mechanical advantage but I’m wondering if the 5" adjustment length will be enough.
Thoughts?
Looking for some info on replacing my Reefing lines. I have also had problems shaking out a reef. I have an F35 (Pedrick) with the butterfly block in the boom. I usually need to haul the Reefing line out of the aft end of the boom when raising the main from a reefed main to a full main. It’s inconvenient and a bit dangerous. Jlodolce has the same setup on a 40/40 and replaced his lines with Samson lines. It really helped.
Anybody know what the best brand, size and lengths are for the F35? I looked in the owners manual but there was no specs. Slippery and flexible is what I think I’m looking for (without spending a fortune).
I really want to make shaking out a reef easier/safer.
Thanks
Mike O
I replaced all my reefing lines with ¼" Amsteel Blue uncovered spectra lines. What a difference! The low friction of the spectra makes raising the sails so much easier. I installed covers only on the part of the lines that go around the winch and line blockers. Highly recommended upgrade.
had the same problem shaking out the reefs on my F35 and was thinking about replacing the part of the line that is on the rig with Amsteel. Then splicing Sta-Set from the turning block at the mast base to the rope clutches.
Question:
To replace the lines in the boom is the procedure the same as replacing a halyard? Sew the end of the new line to the end of the old line and just pull the new one through?
Thank you,
Mark K.
1994 F35 Reefing lines. On this boat each of the single line reefing consists of two lines - one for the out haul and one for the clew. Inside the boom they reverse direction with the use of a butterfly block. So I went ahead and replaced the 7/16" stay-set but only the outhaul line with 1/4" Dyneema (aka Amsteel) for my reefing lines. The Dyneema is a smaller diameter and slippery so it glides though the butterfly block and up through the outhaul grommet in the sail rather easily. For the clew half of the reefing line I washed the existing 7/16" stay-set line and treated it with fabric softener and reinstalled it. All the lines run according to the manufacturers diagrams and specifications with this exception. I can now raise/reef the main sail as it was intended without having to tug on the reef outhaul lines to get them moving through the system. I am pleased with the result. I was worried that if I changed everything over to Dyneema (which is essentially zero stretch) it might rip out or damage hardware when the boom moved around so I kept the stay-set for the clew half of the reefing rather than converting it all to Dyneema. This way there is still some stretch in the lines to accommodate the movement of the boom. I have sailed with this system several times now and the system now works as it was intended.
I also have the butterfly reeling system on my f30. One of the lines is off on one end and will need to be replaced and the other is pretty twisted up inside. How do I access the blocks in the boom to replace the line that is not run and to not get the one that is in there all twisted and to inspect/lubricate the blocks? My end cap is rivited on (though I will remove if needed). How do I rerun new lines?