REFIT, OR, , BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR

Posted by Frank (myslo@…>)

We had planned to do a major refit this year, and are working on it.
Getting into it fairly deep…
In cleaning up the bilge, I found a weeping keelbolt. It took very
very little torque to shear it off.

Does anyone have any experience with Freedom keels and keelbolts?
Or, if not, do you kow someone who might know how they bolted it.
(1981 F 33 )

I will write a lil report on this when it is done.

Frank

Posted by Alan Kusinitz (akusinitz@…>)



Note we’re trying to encourage
people to move to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreedomOwnersGroup/
where we can limit spam and have better control regarding archiving and
organizing things.

At one point I had some weeping from one
of the bolts on my F-33. It happened towards the end of the sailing season up
here in New England. I had the yard take a
look at it (the guy who looked at has had a lot of experience removing and
replacing and repairing keels including on wooden boats).

He said that its most likely just a little
seepage coming from inside the boat (any water running to the bilge to from the
chain locker or elsewhere) running underneath (there were one or two drilled
holes in the inside perhaps to allow air to escape when they tightened up the
bolts originally) and then seeping out around a keel bolt where the 5200 had a
gap.

The previous owner had added fiberglass at
the keel to hull joint because he had a problem on a previous boat before he
realized it wasn’t necessary. Since this is in good shape and no water
can penetrate this it confirms to me what the yard said. .

Over the winter I loosened the nut on the
keel bolt (wasn’t easy) and then rebedded and retightened. Mine did not
break off. I did notice that the hole for the keel bolt was large on one side
(like they had to grind it out widen it to get the bolt through) and there wasn’t
much bedding compound in that part.

I assume that lead is cast on the bolts so
there is no way to replace the broken one. I have read about drilling a new
whole and tapping for a new bolt but lead is soft so I don’t see how that
could be effective. Perhaps drilling, inserted a threaded rod with epoxy of
some sort? This is above my pay grade. J

To find out how they constructed the boat you
could try Eric Sponberg (I believe he was chief engineer at Freedom around when
ours were built) ewsponberg@…
. I’ve used him for some consulting regarding the masts and mast steps
pins.

I know a lot of people get information
from Paul Dennis as well.

Alan F-33 Hull #51 1982





From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com [mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Frank
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 8:02
PM
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [freedomyachts2003]
REFIT, OR, , BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR





We had planned to do a major refit this year, and are working on it.
Getting into it fairly deep…
In cleaning up the bilge, I found a weeping keelbolt. It took very
very little torque to shear it off.

Does anyone have any experience with Freedom keels and keelbolts?
Or, if not, do you kow someone who might know how they bolted it.
(1981 F 33 )

I will write a lil report on this when it is done.

Frank

\

Posted by Fargo Rousseau (fargo_r@…>)
Not wanting to spoil your day further, I would be very wary of the other bolts if one “sheared off” easily. Did you spin it out of the lead…or did it separate into two pieces? What does the end of the bolt look like? Did the bolt retain its full diameter right up to the break? Do you see any corrosion inside the broken area? Good luck,FargoFrank <myslo@…> wrote: We had planned to do a major refit this year, and are working on it. Getting into it fairly deep… In
cleaning up the bilge, I found a weeping keelbolt. It took very very little torque to shear it off. Does anyone have any experience with Freedom keels and keelbolts? Or, if not, do you kow someone who might know how they bolted it. (1981 F 33 ) I will write a lil report on this when it is done. Frank

Posted by Norm Friberg (nfriberg@…>)

I have not seen very much spam lately

Norm

----- Original Message -----
From: Alan Kusinitz
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 7:39 AM
Subject: RE: [freedomyachts2003] REFIT, OR, , BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR




Note we’re trying to encourage people to move to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreedomOwnersGroup/ where we can limit spam and have better control regarding archiving and organizing things.


At one point I had some weeping from one of the bolts on my F-33. It happened towards the end of the sailing season up here in New England. I had the yard take a look at it (the guy who looked at has had a lot of experience removing and replacing and repairing keels including on wooden boats).

He said that its most likely just a little seepage coming from inside the boat (any water running to the bilge to from the chain locker or elsewhere) running underneath (there were one or two drilled holes in the inside perhaps to allow air to escape when they tightened up the bolts originally) and then seeping out around a keel bolt where the 5200 had a gap.

The previous owner had added fiberglass at the keel to hull joint because he had a problem on a previous boat before he realized it wasn’t necessary. Since this is in good shape and no water can penetrate this it confirms to me what the yard said. .

Over the winter I loosened the nut on the keel bolt (wasn’t easy) and then rebedded and retightened. Mine did not break off. I did notice that the hole for the keel bolt was large on one side (like they had to grind it out widen it to get the bolt through) and there wasn’t much bedding compound in that part.

I assume that lead is cast on the bolts so there is no way to replace the broken one. I have read about drilling a new whole and tapping for a new bolt but lead is soft so I don’t see how that could be effective. Perhaps drilling, inserted a threaded rod with epoxy of some sort? This is above my pay grade. J

To find out how they constructed the boat you could try Eric Sponberg (I believe he was chief engineer at Freedom around when ours were built) ewsponberg@sponbergyachtdesign.com . I’ve used him for some consulting regarding the masts and mast steps pins.

I know a lot of people get information from Paul Dennis as well.

Alan F-33 Hull #51 1982





From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com [mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of FrankSent: Monday, June 18, 2007 8:02 PMTo: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.comSubject: [freedomyachts2003] REFIT, OR, , BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR




We had planned to do a major refit this year, and are working on it.Getting into it fairly deep…In cleaning up the bilge, I found a weeping keelbolt. It took veryvery little torque to shear it off.Does anyone have any experience with Freedom keels and keelbolts?Or, if not, do you kow someone who might know how they bolted it.(1981 F 33 )I will write a lil report on this when it is done.Frank

\

Posted by Frank Minelli (myslo@…>)
Fargo,That bolt just came apart the minute I had the wrench on it, with barely any torque yet. Wary of the other bolts ? You bet ! I dont think that boat will go to windward at all without a keel, don’t you? I havent touched the other ones, yet. The haul out is scheduled for late July, and that’s when I will try and pull all the bolts. Whatever breaks, I assume I will wind up with new boltholes. Dont know yet, for sure, still researching that.The broken bolt, well, merely looking at it reveals nothing. I havent gotten around to putting it into the wise and playing with it a bit. Sure beats me how this could have happened . I have never had any galvanic corrosion to speak of, still turning the same wheel as I did when I bought her in 83. I also kept the bonding circuit in fair
shape. Oh well, I am reallyglad I found out sitting on the dock here, rather than while falling of sme wave.Regards,Frank Fargo Rousseau <fargo_r@…> wrote: Not wanting to spoil your day further, I would be very wary of the other bolts if one “sheared off” easily. Did you spin it out of the lead…or did it separate into two pieces? What does the end of the bolt look like? Did the bolt retain its full diameter right up to the break? Do you see any corrosion inside the
broken area? Good luck,FargoFrank <myslo@yahoo.com> wrote: We had planned to do a major refit this year, and are working on it. Getting into it fairly deep… In cleaning up the bilge, I found a weeping keelbolt. It took very very little torque to shear it off. Does anyone have any experience with Freedom keels and keelbolts? Or, if not, do you kow someone who might know how they bolted it. (1981 F 33 ) I will write a lil report on this when it is done. Frank
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Posted by Frank Minelli (myslo@…>)
Alan,thanks for that input. The weeping bolt is what attraced my attention to begin with…and at this point of course I am not really worried about that. I surely will try and tap into the accumulated wisdom of Mr. Sponberg. Knowing just what their installation prodedure was will ease the job.I am hoping, that, this being a shallow and relatively long keel, they drilled the lholes through copletely, and embedded the washers and nuts on the bottom end in the lead. This seems to be the preferred method used on shallow keels. I am surprised that no one owning a Freedom has gone through that yet…I guess I must be fhe first one…Thanks, Allan.Regards,FrankAlan Kusinitz <akusinitz@…> wrote: Note we’re trying to encourage people to move to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreedomOwnersGroup/ where we can limit spam and have better control regarding archiving and organizing things. At one point I had some weeping from one of the bolts on my F-33. It happened towards the end of the sailing season up here in New England. I had the yard take a look at it (the guy who looked at has had a lot of experience removing and replacing and repairing keels including on wooden boats). He said that its most likely just a little seepage coming from inside the
boat (any water running to the bilge to from the chain locker or elsewhere) running underneath (there were one or two drilled holes in the inside perhaps to allow air to escape when they tightened up the bolts originally) and then seeping out around a keel bolt where the 5200 had a gap. The previous owner had added fiberglass at the keel to hull joint because he had a problem on a previous boat before he realized it wasn’t necessary. Since this is in good shape and no water can penetrate this it confirms to me what the yard said. . Over the winter I loosened the nut on the keel bolt (wasn’t easy) and then rebedded and retightened. Mine did not break off. I did notice that the hole for the keel bolt was large on one side (like they had to grind it out widen it to get the bolt through) and there wasn’t much bedding compound in that part. I assume that lead is cast on the bolts so there is no way to replace the broken one. I have read about drilling a new whole and tapping for a new bolt but lead
is soft so I don’t see how that could be effective. Perhaps drilling, inserted a threaded rod with epoxy of some sort? This is above my pay grade. J To find out how they constructed the boat you could try Eric Sponberg (I believe he was chief engineer at Freedom around when ours were built) ewsponberg@sponbergyachtdesign.com . I’ve used him for some
consulting regarding the masts and mast steps pins. I know a lot of people get information from Paul Dennis as well. Alan F-33 Hull #51 1982 From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com [mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Frank Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 8:02 PM To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com Subject: [freedomyachts2003] REFIT, OR, , BE CAREFUL WHAT
YOU WISH FOR We had planned to do a major refit this year, and are working on it. Getting into it fairly deep… In cleaning up the bilge, I found a weeping keelbolt. It took very very little torque to shear it off. Does anyone have any experience with Freedom keels and keelbolts? Or, if not, do you kow someone who might know how they bolted it. (1981 F 33 ) I will write a lil report on this when it is done. Frank
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Posted by vtaiariol (borelmfg@…>)

Frank,

Have you considered having the keel recast? They can make a sand mould
from your existing keel. You already have all the raw materials (lead).
They can place new SS “J” bolts to match your existing holes.
If more that one keel bolt is bad, the cost maybe a push. The end
product will be as good as new, maybe even better!

Best of luck

Van Taiariol


— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Frank” <myslo@…> wrote:

We had planned to do a major refit this year, and are working on it.
Getting into it fairly deep…
In cleaning up the bilge, I found a weeping keelbolt. It took very
very little torque to shear it off.

Does anyone have any experience with Freedom keels and keelbolts?
Or, if not, do you kow someone who might know how they bolted it.
(1981 F 33 )

I will write a lil report on this when it is done.

Frank

Posted by Frank Minelli (myslo@…>)
Vsm. thanks. The thought of a re cast has occurred to me. However, that would mean time in a major yard, and the work done by others. This boat has been maintained by myself since 1984, a habit that is hard to break. But, if I did a recast, I surely would not use J bolts. That is a practice that used to be reserved for the bottom of the pile mass production boats. Well, maybe that’s what Pierson became too. They have become corner cutters like anyone else. I probably will wind up drilling new holes, and install so called sisterbolts. I dont even know if the rest of them are going to pot too, so I will do it with all of them. And use titanium bolts. Regards, Frank vtaiariol <borelmfg@…> wrote: Frank,Have you considered having the keel recast? They can make a sand mould from your existing keel. You already have all the raw materials (lead).They can place new SS “J” bolts to match your existing holes.If more that one keel bolt is bad, the cost maybe a push. The end product will be as good as new, maybe even better!Best of luckVan Taiariol— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Frank” <myslo@…> wrote:>> > We had planned to do a major refit this year, and are working on it.> Getting into it fairly deep…> In cleaning up the bilge, I found a weeping keelbolt. It took very> very little torque to shear it off.> > Does anyone have any experience with Freedom keels and keelbolts?> Or, if not, do you kow someone who might know how they bolted it.> (1981 F 33 )> > I will write a lil report on this when it is done.> > Frank>

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