Running Diesel for battery charging

Posted by William A. Cormack (wacormack@…>)

Fellow Freedom lovers:

We’ve discussed here at some length the fact that running your diesel to charge the batteries is bad for them because they don’t get truly warmed up without a real load.

How about this as an alternative at one’s mooring or at anchor:

Start and warm up the engine as recommended Put it in reverse Rev to perhaps 1800 Turn on refrigeration (Sea Frost holding plates in my case)
Battery charging progresses
When charging complete idle down to 1000 RPM
Shut down after 5 minutes
I’ve done this once at my mooring. Light wind kept her straight.

Comments?

Bill
_________________________________________________William A. Cormack, CPAPrincipal and Chief Financial OfficerWhelan Associates, LLC, a Corporate Real Estate Service Firm100 Faunce Corner Executive Center, Suite 150500 Faunce Corner RoadNorth Dartmouth, MA 02747Voice: 508-984-4100, Fax: 508-984-4101, Cell 508-254-5828MailTo:wacormack@…

Posted by macks011 (macks04@…>)

In your case, the load from the seafrost compressor and your
alternator is enough load so there is no need to back down in
reverse. I was doing that in the Block Island towm mooring field
this summer and I was getting some worried looks from my neighbor
with my pushpit two feet from his bow.


— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “William A. Cormack”
<wacormack@w…> wrote:

Fellow Freedom lovers:

We’ve discussed here at some length the fact that running your
diesel to charge the batteries is bad for them because they don’t
get truly warmed up without a real load.

How about this as an alternative at one’s mooring or at anchor:
a… Start and warm up the engine as recommended
b… Put it in reverse
c… Rev to perhaps 1800
d… Turn on refrigeration (Sea Frost holding plates in my case)
e… Battery charging progresses
f… When charging complete idle down to 1000 RPM
g… Shut down after 5 minutes
I’ve done this once at my mooring. Light wind kept her straight.

Comments?

Bill


William A. Cormack, CPA
Principal and Chief Financial Officer
Whelan Associates, LLC, a Corporate Real Estate Service Firm
100 Faunce Corner Executive Center, Suite 150
500 Faunce Corner Road
North Dartmouth, MA 02747
Voice: 508-984-4100, Fax: 508-984-4101, Cell 508-254-5828
MailTo:wacormack@w

Posted by tlynchlaw (pass@…>)

My diesel mechanic in Annapolis said putting the engine in neutral
and running at about 1500 rpms with a 100 amp alternator is enough
load to keep the engine hot for battery charging (and it heats the
water in the morning).

Tom Lynch
Quixote
F-30

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “macks011” <macks04@o…>
wrote:

In your case, the load from the seafrost compressor and your
alternator is enough load so there is no need to back down in
reverse. I was doing that in the Block Island towm mooring field
this summer and I was getting some worried looks from my neighbor
with my pushpit two feet from his bow.

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “William A. Cormack”
<wacormack@w…> wrote:

Fellow Freedom lovers:

We’ve discussed here at some length the fact that running your
diesel to charge the batteries is bad for them because they don’t
get truly warmed up without a real load.

How about this as an alternative at one’s mooring or at anchor:
a… Start and warm up the engine as recommended
b… Put it in reverse
c… Rev to perhaps 1800
d… Turn on refrigeration (Sea Frost holding plates in my case)
e… Battery charging progresses
f… When charging complete idle down to 1000 RPM
g… Shut down after 5 minutes
I’ve done this once at my mooring. Light wind kept her straight.

Comments?

Bill


William A. Cormack, CPA
Principal and Chief Financial Officer
Whelan Associates, LLC, a Corporate Real Estate Service Firm
100 Faunce Corner Executive Center, Suite 150
500 Faunce Corner Road
North Dartmouth, MA 02747
Voice: 508-984-4100, Fax: 508-984-4101, Cell 508-254-5828
MailTo:wacormack@w

Posted by rick_simonds (rick_simonds@…>)

I agree that the load from the alternator and reefer is enough,
though I would stop when the batteries are getting full and the
alternator is only putting out, say, 10 amps or so.

I think this “light load” problem is generally a bit overstated. If
you run at full cruising speed for several hours, several times a
year, you aleviate nearly all of the problem. Try to convince the
crew that many hours of motoring on a “no wind” trip is really a
fantastic opportunity.

It completely depends on your transmission but I also would avoid
prolonged running in reverse. In my (from memory here) Kansaki KM3A
transmission (on a 3GMD engine), the gear for reverse is made out of
brass instead of steel. It is made that way to be easier to machine
and therefor cheaper. It should last as long as the steel ones,
given that reverse isn’t used all that much compared to forward .
Prolonged operation in reverse could easily wear it out, though.
(Yours may be different.)

Rick


— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “William A. Cormack”
<wacormack@w…> wrote:

Fellow Freedom lovers:

We’ve discussed here at some length the fact that running your
diesel to charge the batteries is bad for them because they don’t
get truly warmed up without a real load.

How about this as an alternative at one’s mooring or at anchor:
a… Start and warm up the engine as recommended
b… Put it in reverse
c… Rev to perhaps 1800
d… Turn on refrigeration (Sea Frost holding plates in my case)
e… Battery charging progresses
f… When charging complete idle down to 1000 RPM
g… Shut down after 5 minutes
I’ve done this once at my mooring. Light wind kept her straight.

Comments?

Bill


William A. Cormack, CPA
Principal and Chief Financial Officer
Whelan Associates, LLC, a Corporate Real Estate Service Firm
100 Faunce Corner Executive Center, Suite 150
500 Faunce Corner Road
North Dartmouth, MA 02747
Voice: 508-984-4100, Fax: 508-984-4101, Cell 508-254-5828
MailTo:wacormack@w

Posted by geraldfreshwater (freshwater@…>)

I agree with Rick about the light load problem being overstated. We have a Volvo
2003, 18years old, which has often been run just for charging, about 1 hour in
24 on
passage, or just if moored away from shore power. Teh Sterling charge controller
ensures that the load is high, and the battery charges fast, but the Volvo
manual
specifically suggests running the motor at 1500-1600 rpm if being used just for
charging: there is no suggestion this ought not to be done. Prolonged running of
the
engine at idling speed is perhaps a different proposition.

Gerald Freshwater



— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “rick_simonds” <rick_simonds@y…>
wrote:

I agree that the load from the alternator and reefer is enough,
though I would stop when the batteries are getting full and the
alternator is only putting out, say, 10 amps or so.

I think this “light load” problem is generally a bit overstated. If
you run at full cruising speed for several hours, several times a
year, you aleviate nearly all of the problem. Try to convince the
crew that many hours of motoring on a “no wind” trip is really a
fantastic opportunity.

It completely depends on your transmission but I also would avoid
prolonged running in reverse. In my (from memory here) Kansaki KM3A
transmission (on a 3GMD engine), the gear for reverse is made out of
brass instead of steel. It is made that way to be easier to machine
and therefor cheaper. It should last as long as the steel ones,
given that reverse isn’t used all that much compared to forward .
Prolonged operation in reverse could easily wear it out, though.
(Yours may be different.)

Rick

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “William A. Cormack”
<wacormack@w…> wrote:

Fellow Freedom lovers:

We’ve discussed here at some length the fact that running your
diesel to charge the batteries is bad for them because they don’t
get truly warmed up without a real load.

How about this as an alternative at one’s mooring or at anchor:
a… Start and warm up the engine as recommended
b… Put it in reverse
c… Rev to perhaps 1800
d… Turn on refrigeration (Sea Frost holding plates in my case)
e… Battery charging progresses
f… When charging complete idle down to 1000 RPM
g… Shut down after 5 minutes
I’ve done this once at my mooring. Light wind kept her straight.

Comments?

Bill


William A. Cormack, CPA
Principal and Chief Financial Officer
Whelan Associates, LLC, a Corporate Real Estate Service Firm
100 Faunce Corner Executive Center, Suite 150
500 Faunce Corner Road
North Dartmouth, MA 02747
Voice: 508-984-4100, Fax: 508-984-4101, Cell 508-254-5828
MailTo:wacormack@w

Posted by Brian Guptil (sailordude@…>)


Gentlemen

You may notice
that older vessels with engine driven refrigeration are often observed emitting
blue smoke. One of the causes of this is long or frequent lightly loaded,
low RPM running. There are two problems
with doing so, cylinder polishing and oil contamination where un-burned fuel
accumulates in the lube oil. Increasing the RPM will reduce the oil contamination, but not the cylinder polishing.
If you do heavy maintenance, beyond retune maintenance like belts, filters,
oil, impellers, exhaust elbows and maybe injectors in under 10,000 hours, you
are probably abusing your engine.

It is a judgment
call as are most decisions on vessels and otherwise. But short run
cycles, battery and refrigeration charging and infrequent or improper
maintenance are usually the root cause in premature failure or heavy
maintenance. Also, use engine manufacturers filters and premium oils as
saving a buck will eventually cost someone in the long run.

For battery and
refer. Charging I use a Honda “I” series genset. or plan a 4+ hour
motor every couple-
three days.

Unless you have
an enormous alternator like 150amp, I don’t think that constitutes much
of a load as the engine will usually carry that and propulsion at 6kn without black
smoking.

My 2cents.

Brian

-----Original Message-----
From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com [mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of macks011
Sent: Tuesday, August
23, 2005 8:07 PM
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re:
Running Diesel for battery charging

In your case, the load from the seafrost compressor
and your
alternator is enough load so there is no need to
back down in
reverse. I was doing that in the Block Island towm
mooring field
this summer and I was getting some worried looks
from my neighbor
with my pushpit two feet from his bow.


— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “William A.
Cormack”
<wacormack@w…> wrote:

Fellow Freedom lovers:

We’ve discussed here at some length the fact
that running your
diesel to charge the batteries is bad for them
because they don’t
get truly warmed up without a real load.

How about this as an alternative at one’s
mooring or at anchor:
a… Start and warm up the engine
as recommended
b… Put it in reverse
c… Rev to perhaps 1800
d… Turn on refrigeration (Sea
Frost holding plates in my case)
e… Battery charging progresses
f… When charging complete idle
down to 1000 RPM
g… Shut down after 5 minutes
I’ve done this once at my mooring.
Light wind kept her straight.

Comments?

Bill


William A. Cormack, CPA
Principal and Chief Financial Officer
Whelan Associates, LLC, a Corporate Real
Estate Service Firm
100 Faunce Corner Executive Center, Suite 150
500 Faunce Corner Road
North Dartmouth, MA 02747
Voice: 508-984-4100, Fax: 508-984-4101, Cell 508-254-5828
MailTo:wacormack@w





\

Posted by mike cunningham (seychellois_lib@…>)

Brian,

I had to smile when I saw your 10,000 hours comment
below. I have owned my F30 for six years. The other
day I pulled an ice cold corona out of the box and sat
down with my log to total up all of my engine hours (
I don’t have a meter but I take care to log accurate
hours). After six years I have accumulated 220 engine
hours. For the last two years I have lived in New
Mexico with the boat in Califoria so my sailing has
been somewhat limited, say 8 to 10 times a year but
for the first four years I was out 30 or 40 times a
year.

This includes a number of trips from Stockton, Ca to
San Francisco bay, a 45 NM leg under power.

At this rate I won’t get to 10,000 hours until
sometime in the year 2269.

In terms of economy, I figure I’ve had to pay the
princely sum of around $250.00 in fuel costs so far,
its almost laughable. I’m sure I have spent far more
on oil changes, filters, and misc peripheral spares. I
am religious about six month oil changes, fuel filter
and water peperator changes, etc. I do often wonder
when this low hours utilization is going to come back
and bite me. The engine has just been perfect so far.

Mike



— Brian Guptil <sailordude@…> wrote:

Gentlemen

You may notice that older vessels with engine driven
refrigeration are often
observed emitting blue smoke. One of the causes of
this is long or frequent
lightly loaded, low RPM running. There are two
problems with doing so,
cylinder polishing and oil contamination where
un-burned fuel accumulates in
the lube oil. Increasing the RPM will reduce the
oil contamination, but not
the cylinder polishing. If you do heavy
maintenance, beyond retune
maintenance like belts, filters, oil, impellers,
exhaust elbows and maybe
injectors in under 10,000 hours, you are probably
abusing your engine.

It is a judgment call as are most decisions on
vessels and otherwise. But
short run cycles, battery and refrigeration charging
and infrequent or
improper maintenance are usually the root cause in
premature failure or
heavy maintenance. Also, use engine manufacturers
filters and premium oils
as saving a buck will eventually cost someone in the
long run.

For battery and refer. Charging I use a Honda “I”
series genset. or plan a
4+ hour motor every couple-

three days.

Unless you have an enormous alternator like 150amp,
I don’t think that
constitutes much of a load as the engine will
usually carry that and
propulsion at 6kn without black smoking.

My 2cents.

Brian

-----Original Message-----
From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of macks011
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 8:07 PM
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Running Diesel for
battery charging

In your case, the load from the seafrost compressor
and your
alternator is enough load so there is no need to
back down in
reverse. I was doing that in the Block Island towm
mooring field
this summer and I was getting some worried looks
from my neighbor
with my pushpit two feet from his bow.

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “William
A. Cormack”
<wacormack@w…> wrote:

Fellow Freedom lovers:

We’ve discussed here at some length the fact that
running your
diesel to charge the batteries is bad for them
because they don’t
get truly warmed up without a real load.

How about this as an alternative at one’s mooring
or at anchor:
a… Start and warm up the engine as recommended
b… Put it in reverse
c… Rev to perhaps 1800
d… Turn on refrigeration (Sea Frost holding
plates in my case)
e… Battery charging progresses
f… When charging complete idle down to 1000 RPM
g… Shut down after 5 minutes
I’ve done this once at my mooring. Light wind
kept her straight.

Comments?

Bill


William A. Cormack, CPA
Principal and Chief Financial Officer
Whelan Associates, LLC, a Corporate Real Estate
Service Firm
100 Faunce Corner Executive Center, Suite 150
500 Faunce Corner Road
North Dartmouth, MA 02747
Voice: 508-984-4100, Fax: 508-984-4101, Cell
508-254-5828
MailTo:wacormack@w


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