Sailing characteristics

Posted by Carl Laws (carl47@…>)

Hi Folks,

I’m considering an older Freedom 21 and a Precision 21 or 18 to purchase and take/ship to Belize. Need boat that’s fun to single hand, can handle stiff trade winds as well as light air, and has enough of a cabin to be able to overnight at the keys. The Freedom 21 is new to me, but I have access to one with a shoal keel. Built 1986. I’ve heard that that keel configuration does not handle well, and I wonder about it’s seaworthiness above 15 knots. Will appreciate any comments re it’s sailing characteristics, especially compared to a shoal/centerboard configuration such as on the Precisions.

Carl Laws

Posted by John E. Muller (johnemuller@…>)

Carl:

I have been a marina operator and yacht broker for over 35 years and have seen, sailed, and sold a lot of boats. The Freedom 21 is a far better choice for your intended use. I have a 1983 deep draft “21” that I sail in Florida and would consider selling if you had an interest.

Feel free to contact me at johnemuller@… if you would like to discuss thing further. John Muller

----- Original Message -----
From: Carl Laws
To: freedom21@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 8:43 PM
Subject: [freedom21] Sailing characteristics



Hi Folks,

I’m considering an older Freedom 21 and a Precision 21 or 18 to purchase and take/ship to Belize. Need boat that’s fun to single hand, can handle stiff trade winds as well as light air, and has enough of a cabin to be able to overnight at the keys. The Freedom 21 is new to me, but I have access to one with a shoal keel. Built 1986. I’ve heard that that keel configuration does not handle well, and I wonder about it’s seaworthiness above 15 knots. Will appreciate any comments re it’s sailing characteristics, especially compared to a shoal/centerboard configuration such as on the Precisions.

Carl Laws



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Posted by rickpowers55 (rpowers55@…>)

Carl, While not having a shoal draft model myself I have sailed on
one.
Your biggest disappointment will not being able to go to weather as
well as a fin keeled boat would. The 21 is the toughfest little boat
I have ever sailed. It would be, IMHO, the best of the boats you
list for the conditions you list. Carbon fiber is a wonderful thing
when the wind picks up. It will bend and let the air spill off the
top and limit heel. I have had my boat out in 35 knots with a reef
in and sippin a beverage while others around me are fighting their
boats. It likes that heavy air stuff. Kinda of sluggish under 8
but thats the trade off. Shoal keel will be easier to launch. I
don’t think you could go wrong selecting a shoal draft Freedom 21.

But as they say…thats just my 2 cents

Rick
Freediom 21 Fin Keel
Nana
Stillhouse Hollow Lake, Texas

— In freedom21@yahoogroups.com, “Carl Laws” <carl47@…> wrote:

Hi Folks,

I’m considering an older Freedom 21 and a Precision 21 or 18 to
purchase and
take/ship to Belize. Need boat that’s fun to single hand, can
handle stiff
trade winds as well as light air, and has enough of a cabin to be
able to
overnight at the keys. The Freedom 21 is new to me, but I have
access to
one with a shoal keel. Built 1986. I’ve heard that that keel
configuration
does not handle well, and I wonder about it’s seaworthiness above
15 knots.
Will appreciate any comments re it’s sailing characteristics,
especially
compared to a shoal/centerboard configuration such as on the
Precisions.

Carl Laws

Posted by mitya fonin (mitbok1@…>)
I got a shoal draft and never sailed the fin keel so it hard to compare. Windward performance is somewhat disappointing, but as soon as I raise the jib, things greatly improve. If I’ll ever get that jib roller furling system going than i will not have any complaints at all. Now the best thing about the shoal draft is, of course, the draft ! I got really spoiled around my sailing area and buoys and markers mean nothing to me. You can get really close to shore, cut across where other boats can’t, etc. I did have a problem with the tabernacle mast, but that’s a separate story.

Dmitry
Baltika
Brooklyn NY
----- Original Message ----From: rickpowers55 <rpowers55@…>To: freedom21@yahoogroups.comSent: Monday, March 24, 2008 8:59:30 PMSubject: [freedom21] Re: Sailing characteristics

Carl, While not having a shoal draft model myself I have sailed on one.Your biggest disappointment will not being able to go to weather as well as a fin keeled boat would. The 21 is the toughfest little boat I have ever sailed. It would be, IMHO, the best of the boats you list for the conditions you list. Carbon fiber is a wonderful thing when the wind picks up. It will bend and let the air spill off the top and limit heel. I have had my boat out in 35 knots with a reef in and sippin a beverage while others around me are fighting their boats. It likes that heavy air stuff. Kinda of sluggish under 8 but thats the trade off. Shoal keel will be easier to launch. I don’t think you could go wrong selecting a shoal draft Freedom 21.But as they say…thats just my 2 centsRickFreediom 21 Fin KeelNanaStillhouse Hollow Lake, Texas— In freedom21@yahoogrou ps.com, “Carl Laws” <carl47@…> wrote:>> Hi Folks,> > I’m considering an older Freedom 21 and a Precision 21 or 18 to purchase and> take/ship to Belize. Need boat that’s fun to single hand, can handle stiff> trade winds as well as light air, and has enough of a cabin to be able to> overnight at the keys. The Freedom 21 is new to me, but I have access to> one with a shoal keel. Built 1986. I’ve heard that that keel configuration> does not handle well, and I wonder about it’s seaworthiness above 15 knots.> Will appreciate any comments re it’s sailing characteristics, especially> compared to a shoal/centerboard configuration such as on the Precisions. > > Carl Laws>

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Posted by Medium Al (hjulbyhavn@…>)

The shoal keel is quite stout and much less likely to be damaed
should you touch the bottom. The real draft is about 2’4"-6" loaded
but that is a lot less than 4’ and it will get you into some pretty
quiet secluded spots.

It is not closewinded but you can tack at a true 120 degree doing 4
1/2 to 5 knots with old sails. When you pinch, you can go closer but
ultimately the VMG is much better when you keep the speed up because
of reduced leeway. 25 Mph wind is not a problem in open water when
the wavelengh match the wind. Above 25 mph wind you will have trouble
tacking into the wind, but so do all small boats that accelerate as
fast as the F21.

The rudder is a little small for the “crazy stuff” - if you sail with
the boom out or don’t reef, but the Harstick main sail have so many
adjustments that it is not difficult to manage in most conditions
(Boom wang, Out Haul, Batten tension, Luff tension, Cuningham). Of
course precision sailtrim requires precision helmsmanship.

You must keep it upright in a chop, but it is faster at 15 degree
heel as long as the keep grips. With more heel the keel gets behind
the hull and leeway goes up (on the shoal).

If the sail is good and you rig it with the sail out from the mast
you can avoid the Jib (see mine here
http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/freedom21/photos/browse/4e23 )or add
both and you won’t want to spend any more time comparing the F21
to “lesser” boats.

You definitely have to deal with the scuppers and the campanionway
board before venturing out in the big stuff, the starboard storage
locker wall is only about 8" so you could floos the interior very
fast. I would add a tight snap-on cover for that.

The mast is not fastened well enough for a rollover either. You need
a much deeper mast base and a better way of keeping it attached in
order to expect to take a rollover without loosing it.

There is no backing plate for the rudder bolts. A sheet of 3/4
plywood and big washers should be plenty strong, but stock the bolts
could be pulled through or worse, crak the fiberglass.

You also have to deal with the sail-slides. They can and will peel
off the track (break) if a stong gust hits a reefed sail (try Zero to
25Mph as I did on lake Superior and someone else did on SF Bay). Add
two more slides on the topplate and maybe a couple below that on the
sail and use a slightly flexible attachment scheme like nylon rope.

I am looking for a bigger boat but my F21 is not for sale, my wife
will have to hurt me before I sell it, so if some day you see a one
armed sailor in a larger Freedom that don’t wave back, remember I
probably can’t and look for the nod.

I think an F21 would make a great family heirloom, the quality is
there.