Welcome Rick, I hope you find this site as helpful as I have. The members here are very knowledgeable and have given me loads of useful information.
Best wishes,
Rick, welcome to the group. It’s a bit quick to conclude the Hydrovane is the vane of choice. There are several Freedoms with a Hydrovane but other vanes are also in use. The special thing about the Hydrovane is that it has no pendulum and no steering lines to the steering wheel. And the Hydrovane rudder can be used as an emergency rudder. From my own experience I can tell you the F33/35 cat ketch is a difficult boat to chose a windvane for because of the huge transom hung rudder. You either need an offset vane on one side of the transom or a vane mounted on a construction around the main rudder.
Hello Michel,
Nice you asked John Curry for his opinion. I did’nt know there was a better, more powerful rudder now. I certainly will try it.
I do not completely concur with John esp his remarks about the freestanding carbonfiber mast.
In a puff of wind weatherhelm is in my opinion mainly created by heeling of the boat. Healing force is actually less with a flexible mast
then a fixed one. I a puff, masttop bends to leeward, opening the leech and spills the wind. This mechanism can be controlled by Cunningham tension.
More Cunningham gives easier opening of the leech. ( Just block and tackle is’nt enough, I have rigged the Cunningham to one of the deckwinches).
What still stands is: Hydrovane works when boat is balanced, but only then. That’s the weak point. I know racing guys are always keen on balancing; giving helm costs speed. But they have the crew to do so constantly. But we are ( at least I am) a cruisersailor. Mostly sailing shorthanded.
Twenty years ago I sailed a 44ft longkeeler from Spain to the Azores and back to Brittanny in France with a shorthanded crew. We had an Aries. Also with a Aries you start with balancing before connecting the Aries. In a trip like that wind and waves are never constant and sometimes at night you meet with a squall unexpectedly. Aries always kept the boat on course, never a unwanted gybe or tack. Not even coming close to it, even with almost complete unbalance in a thunderstorm. That makes it safe to operate.
I start to get some experience with the Hydrovane now, but so far I have’nt sailed it shorthanded for a couple of days on end with nasty weather. You know: mainly living on coffee and rubbing salt from your eyes, getting tired, prone to make mistakes. I’ll have to see how Hydrovane and I get along then.
I did choose the Hydrovane for keeping the swimming platform free, but should I have to choose again, I would now seriously check out a servo pendulum system for want of the simple, reliable operation as I was used to. Although I know not all boats are suited for it, esp with a hung rudder and not to speak on the problem of the steering lines.
The 45ft Gary Mull design I sail with is much beamier than the Herreshoff/ Hoyt designs. Problably they have more tendency to create weather helm, creating more problems in balancing. So problaby you’ll be better of with a Hydrovane.
See you,
So that is what ai am after, what are the choices and what are the tradeoffs. I kind of figured that with the big transom hung rudder, finding a windvane that would work might be a problem, but I imagine there must be a work able solution to it. I prefer the servo-pendulm type due to the power they generate, so I wonder if anyone has found a way to set one up on this type of boat. Like you said, I guess it would involve some sort of structure to mount it on over /behind the rudder. I know I have seen other boats with transom hung rudders with servo pendulum types just can’t recal what they were or how they were mounted. Well , I guess more research is needed but hopefully someone will know of the solution. Oh and thanks for the welcome, and I hope to be a part of this group for a longtime. Rick
This thread has given me great food for thought and prompted me to check out servo gears more thoroughly. I particularly like the look of the Cape Horn product which would be an easy fit on Fyne Spirit. The admiral also seems to like the idea, so it seems the Hyrovane may soon be for sale. The Hydrovane is a well built product with many advantages as discussed earlier but the deciding factor for me was that servo types can control the ship while sail changes are made, where as the Hydrovane requires the sail to be set, balanced and trimmed prior to engagement, and in my limited experience, does not handle changes in conditions very well.
Guys,
Yesterday I completed installing my Hydrovane. Mounting the top bracket through the resin and glass filler block was fairly easy; I could access the inside of the transom via the cockpit locker. And since I lost 15 kgs of body weight these last few months, I was more agile and comfortable in that cramped space. Installing the bottom A- frame brackets presented a problem however; I could not get to the inside transom at the desired locations. So I moved up the bracket and shoved the genset partially out its box to get to the inside transom:
Here is the completed installation:
Here’s a view on the vane head control line. Still have to find out if there’s not too much friction in it. I led the line to the side of the deck close to the control unit of the autopilot, so I can set both steering systems in sync with each other.
Many thanks to Hans Hansen, who offered his two year old Hydrovane for sale to me.
hi,
i am also loking for a vane , a hydrovane on transom ofset to one side seems to be winning at the moment as it is the only one i can install without a gantry to get past the rudder.
kusi steers herself to windward with no vane atatched in the right conditions o it wont have much to do upwind so reachng and running are where im most interested in it working
phil downey f33/35 kusi lymington uk.
I have seen an F35(UK) with a windvane self steering mounted to one side on the transom, it was “Arran Comrades”, then based in Oban, Argyll. I don’t know if there were any drawbacks to the system. I think there was some commentary about it, years ago, on the old bulletin board, so it may be archived somewhere.
I have one or two pictures of “gantries” to mount windvanes aft of the rudder. The Windpilot on “Castaway” is also shown on the Windpilot website under Freedom351.jpg
Herewith the picture of “Sextett”, belonging to Richard Salkeld. I don’t know what type of self steering this is; perhaps Richard will comment if he sees this. For some reason it would not load with the other pictures.
Gerald
That is the Monitor self steering device built by Scanmar in California. To me it looks more like an oil refinery. I prefer the somewhat more tidy looks of your Windpilot. (I confess that I am a bit prejudiced as I have a Windpilot myself)
By the way, do you have any drawings of the gantry for mounting your device to the transom? I am about to buy a F35 located in Ireland and would like to have a gantry manufactured here in Germany. The problem is that I do not have access to the boat at the moment to take any measures and would like to bring the device with me when I go there to get the boat next month.
Regards
Peter
By the way, do you have any drawings of the gantry for mounting your device to the transom? I am about to buy a F35 located in Ireland and would like to have a gantry manufactured here in Germany. The problem is that I do not have access to the boat at the moment to take any measures and would like to bring the device with me when I go there to get the boat next month.
Sorry, I don’t have any drawings. My boat is in Sweden, I’m in Shetland, so there’s no way I can measure it for you; it is very solid, however, and I often stand on it when boarding from the dinghy.
Originally it was fitted by the previous owner. Since it features on the Windpilot website, perhaps the company has details? Peter Furthmann is very helpful.
Gerald
Peter,
Congratulations with the almost purchase of a boat! In case it might be helpful, I attach the F33/35 transom measurements I took years ago when I bought a Voyager windvane. The manufacturer made a custom aluminum casting for me to fit around the rudder head. My measurements apply ti the F33/35 built in the UK and for the smaller rudder that was used after (I think) 1983.
Gerald, Michel
Thanks for the helpful input. As the planned purchase of this boat was arranged with quite a tight time schedule I could not find someone here in my hometown Bremen, who was willing and able to build a stainless gentry for my Windpilot before 1 June. Thats the time we pack everything into our car and and off we go for Kerry.
As my wife and I will stay in Ireland for one month and then drive home again to get the car back and celebrate my mothers birthday, we will not need the Windpilot for that period. In July I will fly back to Cork together with a sailing friend of mine and plan to bring the boat to Britanny via Wales and Cornwall. In settled weather we can use the wheel pilot and otherwise we have to steer by hand. After all the distances to cover are not that lengthy. In Britanny I have to decide either to turn left and head home through the Channel or cross the Biscay to Spain and Portugal for this autumn. The third possibility is to leave the boat near Brest where we know a French couple who are currently building a large Wharram Cat with an interisting Swing Wing Rig but thats another story.
Sorry for going a bit off-topic here, but for completeness I add an image of the boat as well.
Peter
After I changed from Hydrovane to Sailomat I had the opportunity to sail a couple of weeks with the Sailomat for the first time.
My experience with Sailomat is very positive, after some small alignments the unit worked flawless from the start.
Steers the boat upwind in a rough sea on a straighter course than the Raymarine autopilot can.
In a gusty wind when to boat tends to luff, motions are a bit wider, but still steers the boat on a pretty straight line where the Hydrovane
did send the boat into the wind.
The unit weighs a fraction of the Hydrovane which is nice for a unit mounted to the stern of the boat.
The light weight aluminium construction gave me some thoughts about durability. But then I read the book written by Amir Klink. In short: singlehanded Argentinian sailor. Sails to the antartic to spend the winter there, spring comes and he sees that there are plenty of stores and fuel left. Why stop sailing when there’s another pole?
Sails to the arctic, spends winter there; sails home next spring only touching land in St Helena when I recall correctly. During this whole trip he spends himself not more than 15 hours at the helm. The rest is done by Sailomat. So durability wo’nt be a problem I suppose.
When your boat is not easily balanced in correct sailtrim with changing windspeeds I can recommend the Sailomat without any doubt.
Fair winds
some pictures:
steering without any problem
Thank you for the update Hans, the Sailomat sounds very good. I have gone down the track of upgrading the Hydrovane to almost current spec. I have replaced all bushes, added the extra bearing and replaced the shaft with 2205 material. Through the project I had the advice of Garrick Johnson who made the “Servogear” pendulum type gear, and he gave me some interesting insights into the operation of the Hydrovane.
So the next thing is to put it all to the test which we should be doing from about the end of next week. This season we are planning to cover some distance, visiting Nelson on the one hand and Stewart Island on the other. I am also lucky that we will have a true Cape Horn (single handed) sailor with us for some of the voyage, so we should have enough experience between us to really get the best out of the Hydrovane. I suppose if we have some success we might look at the larger rudder. If not I think I will look closely at the Cape Horn vane.
Best regards,
Let us know what your experience will be with your improved vane Mike.
It’s good to find out which type of vane works best with which type of Freedom.
Next year I’ll hope to find the time to sail Scherezade to Europe.
After which I’ll be able to report more substantially on the vane.
And maybe also on the tread " storm tacticts with a single mast rig",
although I hope to avoid that one.
Sail well,