Posted by Alfred Roberts (lab2doodle@…>)
What’s the advantages and disadvantages between the roller furling and the self tracking jib on the F35? I see that the boom takes up a bit of room on the bow compared to the roller but is there a difference in performance?
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Posted by macks011 (macks04@…>)
Any increase in sail area is going to give you an incremental boost
in speed and pointing ability. How big a boost and what it is worth
to you is subjective. Objectively, you lose the “Freedom” concept of
a self tending cambered jib.You increase complexity by adding
another pair of winches and the attending fairleads, blocks, tracks,
and sheets. You gain the simplicity of a furling jib.
Someone came up with an interesting compromise. They installed a
Hoyt Jib boom with a roller furling jib on an F36. I don’t know how
it worked out, but it seems you can have your cake and eat it , too.
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, Alfred Roberts
<lab2doodle@y…> wrote:
What’s the advantages and disadvantages between the roller furling
and the self tracking jib on the F35? I see that the boom takes up
a bit of room on the bow compared to the roller but is there a
difference in performance?
What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos
Posted by andre laviolette (andrelaviolette@…>)
Self TACKING jibs. Once you have had one you just can’t understand why ALL boats don’t come from the design board that way ! The best arangement I have had was a self taking 95% + jib with a clew board that had a small bock attached to it and was fed through a traveler car just forward of the mast and led forward to a turning block and then back to a small winch on the coach house near the cockpit. The jib was set on a simple roller furler. This jib had a vertical batten which supported the roach in the leach. I rarely used the 150% genoa. Never when cruising. Altough I would use the spinnaker. Now, I would trade the spinnaker for a code 0 ( assymetrical spinnaker ) tacked to a short nose pole. When racing often solo in narrow channels between islands I would most often win tacking duels. In club racing this boat, I won 5
championships. This boat was designed to sail with this also flexible rig . This boat had, at that time, a very high sail area to displacement ratio. This boat was also an ultralight displacement boat. If there was a breath of air, you could sail. Hoyt’s club although a hindrance on the fordeck while anchoring and a menace to any crew on foredeck while sailing ( it’s called a club, I have had one of those also ) has a distinct advantage as it holds the clew DOWN and OUT while off the wind. You can rig both. A roached self tacking jib set on a roller furler clewed to a club boom. Andre, " Scaramanga " Alfred Roberts <lab2doodle@…> wrote: What’s the advantages and
disadvantages between the roller furling and the self tracking jib on the F35? I see that the boom takes up a bit of room on the bow compared to the roller but is there a difference in performance? What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos
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Posted by Alfred Roberts (lab2doodle@…>)
Sorry I did mean TACKING. I typed it in this morning before the coffe kicked in. I’m under the impression that the F35 is a fractional rig that should not have a jib greater than the 100%. I did look at a F35 with a roller and it had looked like there was a traveler just forward of the mast and the sheets went through this set up also.andre laviolette <andrelaviolette@…> wrote: Self TACKING jibs. Once you have had one you just can’t understand why ALL boats don’t come from the design board that way ! The best arangement I have had was a self taking 95% + jib with a clew board that had a small bock attached to it and was fed through a traveler car just forward
of the mast and led forward to a turning block and then back to a small winch on the coach house near the cockpit. The jib was set on a simple roller furler. This jib had a vertical batten which supported the roach in the leach. I rarely used the 150% genoa. Never when cruising. Altough I would use the spinnaker. Now, I would trade the spinnaker for a code 0 ( assymetrical spinnaker ) tacked to a short nose pole. When racing often solo in narrow channels between islands I would most often win tacking duels. In club racing this boat, I won 5 championships. This boat was designed to sail with this also flexible rig . This boat had, at that time, a very high sail area to displacement ratio. This boat was also an ultralight displacement boat. If there was a breath of air, you could sail. Hoyt’s club although a hindrance on the fordeck while anchoring and a menace to any crew on foredeck while sailing ( it’s
called a club, I have had one of those also ) has a distinct advantage as it holds the clew DOWN and OUT while off the wind. You can rig both. A roached self tacking jib set on a roller furler clewed to a club boom. Andre, " Scaramanga " Alfred Roberts <lab2doodle@…> wrote: What’s the advantages and disadvantages between the roller furling and the self tracking jib on the F35? I see that the boom takes up a bit of room on the bow compared to the roller but is there a difference in performance? What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos Find your next car at Yahoo! Canada Autos
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Posted by Fred Molden (fredmolden@…>)
I have an F35 with a self tacking roller furling jib. I have not sailed with a camberspar. I have found this to be an effective and easy configuration to single hand. Never a need to leave the cockpit even when dousing all sail. The roller furl has a self tacking traveler across the coach roof which when sailing close hauled brings the clew a bit too far inboard for optimum sail shape. This has not slowed the boat down by much for the cruising sailing that I do.
I would expect a camberspar to point a bit higher and be more stable wing on wing when downwind but keep in mind that this is a small jib and its influence is not as significant as a 150 overlapping jib. The 150 can be added to a F35 at the expense of the self tacking.
----- Original Message -----
From: Alfred Roberts
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: [freedomyachts2003] Self traching
Sorry I did mean TACKING. I typed it in this morning before the coffe kicked in.
I’m under the impression that the F35 is a fractional rig that should not have a jib greater than the 100%. I did look at a F35 with a roller and it had looked like there was a traveler just forward of the mast and the sheets went through this set up also.andre laviolette <andrelaviolette@…> wrote:
Self TACKING jibs.
Once you have had one you just can't understand why ALL boats don't come from the design board that way !
The best arangement I have had was a self taking 95% + jib with a clew board that had a small bock attached to it and was fed through a traveler car just forward of the mast and led forward to a turning block and then back to a small winch on the coach house near the cockpit. The jib was set on a simple roller furler. This jib had a vertical batten which supported the roach in the leach. I rarely used the 150% genoa. Never when cruising. Altough I would use the spinnaker. Now, I would trade the spinnaker for a code 0 ( assymetrical spinnaker ) tacked to a short nose pole. When racing often solo in narrow channels between islands I would most often win tacking duels. In club racing this boat, I won 5 championships. This boat was designed to sail with this also flexible rig . This boat had, at that time, a very high sail area to displacement ratio. This boat was also an ultralight displacement boat. If there was a breath of air, you could sail.
Hoyt's club although a hindrance on the fordeck while anchoring and a menace to any crew on foredeck while sailing ( it's called a club, I have had one of those also ) has a distinct advantage as it holds the clew DOWN and OUT while off the wind.
You can rig both. A roached self tacking jib set on a roller furler clewed to a club boom.
Andre, " Scaramanga "
Alfred Roberts <lab2doodle@…> wrote:
What’s the advantages and disadvantages between the roller furling and the self tracking jib on the F35? I see that the boom takes up a bit of room on the bow compared to the roller but is there a difference in performance?
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Posted by macks011 (macks04@…>)
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Fred Molden”
<fredmolden@c…> wrote:
The camber spar jib is far more effective than its size would
suggest. The boats horsepower is in the main and the jib directs the
air flow around the mast, helping to keep the laminar flow attached
to the main closer to the mast than would happen otherwise,
considering the large mast cross section. In the same air, I lose a
knot of boat speed at least, jib/no jib.
\
I would expect a camberspar to point a bit higher and be more
stable wing on wing when downwind but keep in mind that this is a
small jib and its influence is not as significant as a 150
overlapping jib. The 150 can be added to a F35 at the expense of
the self tacking.
----- Original Message -----
From: Alfred Roberts
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: [freedomyachts2003] Self trachingSorry I did mean TACKING. I typed it in this morning before the
coffe kicked in.I’m under the impression that the F35 is a fractional rig that
should not have a jib greater than the 100%. I did look at a F35
with a roller and it had looked like there was a traveler just
forward of the mast and the sheets went through this set up also.andre laviolette <andrelaviolette@y…> wrote:
Self TACKING jibs.Once you have had one you just can't understand why ALL
boats don’t come from the design board that way !
The best arangement I have had was a self taking 95% +
jib with a clew board that had a small bock attached to it and was
fed through a traveler car just forward of the mast and led forward
to a turning block and then back to a small winch on the coach house
near the cockpit. The jib was set on a simple roller furler. This
jib had a vertical batten which supported the roach in the leach. I
rarely used the 150% genoa. Never when cruising. Altough I would use
the spinnaker. Now, I would trade the spinnaker for a code 0 (
assymetrical spinnaker ) tacked to a short nose pole. When racing
often solo in narrow channels between islands I would most often win
tacking duels. In club racing this boat, I won 5 championships. This
boat was designed to sail with this also flexible rig . This boat
had, at that time, a very high sail area to displacement ratio. This
boat was also an ultralight displacement boat. If there was a breath
of air, you could sail.
Hoyt's club although a hindrance on the fordeck while
anchoring and a menace to any crew on foredeck while sailing ( it’s
called a club, I have had one of those also ) has a distinct
advantage as it holds the clew DOWN and OUT while off the wind.
You can rig both. A roached self tacking jib set on a
roller furler clewed to a club boom.
Andre, " Scaramanga " Alfred Roberts <lab2doodle@y...> wrote: What's the advantages and disadvantages between the roller
furling and the self tracking jib on the F35? I see that the boom
takes up a bit of room on the bow compared to the roller but is
there a difference in performance?
What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos
Find your next car at Yahoo! Canada Autos
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Posted by Alfred Roberts (lab2doodle@…>)
Thank YouFred Molden <fredmolden@…> wrote: I have an F35 with a self tacking roller furling jib. I have not sailed with a camberspar. I have found this to be an effective and easy configuration to single hand. Never a need to leave the cockpit even when dousing all sail. The roller furl has a self tacking traveler across the coach roof which when sailing close hauled brings the clew a bit too far inboard for optimum sail shape. This has not slowed the boat down by much for the cruising sailing that I do. I would expect a camberspar to point a bit higher and be more stable wing on wing when
downwind but keep in mind that this is a small jib and its influence is not as significant as a 150 overlapping jib. The 150 can be added to a F35 at the expense of the self tacking. ----- Original Message ----- From: Alfred Roberts To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 6:42 PM Subject: Re: [freedomyachts2003] Self traching Sorry I did mean TACKING. I typed it in
this morning before the coffe kicked in. I’m under the impression that the F35 is a fractional rig that should not have a jib greater than the 100%. I did look at a F35 with a roller and it had looked like there was a traveler just forward of the mast and the sheets went through this set up also.andre laviolette <andrelaviolette@…> wrote: Self TACKING jibs. Once you have had one you just can’t understand why ALL boats don’t come from the design board that way ! The best arangement I have had was a self taking 95% + jib with a clew board that had a small bock attached to it and was fed through a traveler car just forward of the mast and led forward to a turning
block and then back to a small winch on the coach house near the cockpit. The jib was set on a simple roller furler. This jib had a vertical batten which supported the roach in the leach. I rarely used the 150% genoa. Never when cruising. Altough I would use the spinnaker. Now, I would trade the spinnaker for a code 0 ( assymetrical spinnaker ) tacked to a short nose pole. When racing often solo in narrow channels between islands I would most often win tacking duels. In club racing this boat, I won 5 championships. This boat was designed to sail with this also flexible rig . This boat had, at that time, a very high sail area to displacement ratio. This boat was also an ultralight displacement boat. If there was a breath of air, you could sail. Hoyt’s club although a hindrance on the fordeck while anchoring and a menace to any crew on foredeck while sailing ( it’s called a club, I have had one of those
also ) has a distinct advantage as it holds the clew DOWN and OUT while off the wind. You can rig both. A roached self tacking jib set on a roller furler clewed to a club boom. Andre, " Scaramanga " Alfred Roberts <lab2doodle@…> wrote: What’s the advantages and disadvantages between the roller furling and the self tracking jib on the F35? I see that the boom takes up a bit of room on the bow compared to the roller but is there a difference in performance? What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos
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Posted by crwindy@…> (crwindy@…>)
Just a quick word about the camberspar and downwind sailing. Coming up
Narragansett bay last year, I was in proximity of a Freedom 40/40 in my 36/38.
He had a large jib, presumably on a furler. We were going downwind, and my
camberspar kept me wing on wing and poled out, while he had to deal with a
flopping jib. As this was a casual sail, he did not go up and pole it out. As
you have probaby figured out by now, I pulled far away from this ‘faster’ boat.
Posted by macks011 (macks04@…>)
A related down wind advantage is how deep you can sail “by the lee”.
There is a point I have to round to get back to the marina and the
ability to raise that point without gybing wins races and startles my
crew.
– In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, <crwindy@c…> wrote:
Just a quick word about the camberspar and downwind sailing. Coming
up Narragansett bay last year, I was in proximity of a Freedom 40/40
in my 36/38. He had a large jib, presumably on a furler. We were going
downwind, and my camberspar kept me wing on wing and poled out, while
he had to deal with a flopping jib. As this was a casual sail, he did
not go up and pole it out. As you have probaby figured out by now, I
pulled far away from this ‘faster’ boat.
Posted by bartjanney (bartjanney@…>)
— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, <crwindy@…> wrote:
Just a quick word about the camberspar and downwind sailing. Coming
up Narragansett bay last year, I was in proximity of a Freedom 40/40
in my 36/38. He had a large jib, presumably on a furler. We were going
downwind, and my camberspar kept me wing on wing and poled out, while
he had to deal with a flopping jib. As this was a casual sail, he did
not go up and pole it out. As you have probaby figured out by now, I
pulled far away from this ‘faster’ boat.
I too sail on Narragansett Bay on my newly purchased 36/38. I would
love to hear from you. Send notes to Bjanney@…