Starting battery & switch

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1

Posted by William A. Cormack (wacormack@…>)

My, new to me, 1986 Freedom 36 has two battery banks. House has two 105AH AGMs connected in parallel and a single 875 CCA starting battery. The starting battery will barely crank the cold engine until it gets to its first compression stroke then it stops. Voltage at the battery is then about 10.7. Working back from the battery I find a .3 Volt drop across the battery switch. Question is is that the problem? How much is too much and is the switch repairable?

Thanks

Bill
_________________________________________________William A. Cormack, CPAPrincipal and Chief Financial OfficerWhelan Associates, LLCCorporate Real Estate ServicesBourne Counting House at One Merrill’s WharfNew Bedford, MA 02740Voice: 508-984-4100, Fax: 508-984-4101, Cell 508-254-5828MailTo:wacormack@…

2

Posted by Kevin Ogden (kcogden@…>)

Prob not the switch. Any battery that drops voltage that fast is probably at fault itself. Is it fully charged? Suggest getting the battery itself checked.

----- Original Message -----
From: William A. Cormack
To: Freedom
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 12:44 PM
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Starting battery & switch

My, new to me, 1986 Freedom 36 has two battery banks. House has two 105AH AGMs connected in parallel and a single 875 CCA starting battery. The starting battery will barely crank the cold engine until it gets to its first compression stroke then it stops. Voltage at the battery is then about 10.7. Working back from the battery I find a .3 Volt drop across the battery switch. Question is is that the problem? How much is too much and is the switch repairable?

Thanks

Bill
_________________________________________________William A. Cormack, CPAPrincipal and Chief Financial OfficerWhelan Associates, LLCCorporate Real Estate ServicesBourne Counting House at One Merrill’s WharfNew Bedford, MA 02740Voice: 508-984-4100, Fax: 508-984-4101, Cell 508-254-5828MailTo:wacormack@…

3

Posted by William A. Cormack (wacormack@…>)

The test I did was a battery check. A voltage reading while the starter is stalled against the compression of 10+ volts indicates a good battery.

Bill
_________________________________________________William A. Cormack, CPAPrincipal and Chief Financial OfficerWhelan Associates, LLCCorporate Real Estate ServicesBourne Counting House at One Merrill’s WharfNew Bedford, MA 02740Voice: 508-984-4100, Fax: 508-984-4101, Cell 508-254-5828MailTo:wacormack@…

----- Original Message -----
From: Kevin Ogden
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 8:57 AM
Subject: Re: [freedomyachts2003] Starting battery & switch

Prob not the switch. Any battery that drops voltage that fast is probably at fault itself. Is it fully charged? Suggest getting the battery itself checked.

----- Original Message -----
From: William A. Cormack
To: Freedom
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 12:44 PM
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Starting battery & switch

My, new to me, 1986 Freedom 36 has two battery banks. House has two 105AH AGMs connected in parallel and a single 875 CCA starting battery. The starting battery will barely crank the cold engine until it gets to its first compression stroke then it stops. Voltage at the battery is then about 10.7. Working back from the battery I find a .3 Volt drop across the battery switch. Question is is that the problem? How much is too much and is the switch repairable?

Thanks

Bill
_________________________________________________William A. Cormack, CPAPrincipal and Chief Financial OfficerWhelan Associates, LLCCorporate Real Estate ServicesBourne Counting House at One Merrill’s WharfNew Bedford, MA 02740Voice: 508-984-4100, Fax: 508-984-4101, Cell 508-254-5828MailTo:wacormack@…

4

Posted by jaf177b6 (jfarrell@…>)

A couple of questions and a few suggestions - have you tried starting
on the house bank - what kind of readings and performance are you
getting? Inspect your cables. What do they look like? If they’re
original TPI-installed cables they’re likely not marine grade.

Where I am going with this is - I bought a Freedom 38 last spring (I
think my boat was winter stored next to yours at Fairhaven Shipyard -
if your boat is the one I am thinking of). I could barely start the
engine. I replaced all of the battery cables, battery switch
(standard issue is the Guest Off-1-2-Both type) and the house bank
with 3-series 31 AGMS). I have no problems now.

I would consider changing the Guest battery switch regardless - they
are not expensive. They are usually the weak link in the system.
Also, keep in mind where the switch is in relation to the batteries.
Note the switch is above the batteries (on the F36/F38) which is an
insidious location because the original lead-acid batteries slowly
gassed off, and, adding moisture and condensation, probably
accelerated corrosion in your battery switch.

I had a Pearson for a number of years that had an identical Guest
battery switch that failed for the same reason. Replacing it solved
the problem. Please consider replacing it - keeping in mind that you
likely have a number of small problems that add up to a major voltage
drop problem.

Bottom line, an good electrical system is the sum of many parts. One
weak link affects everything. I speak from the voice of (bad)
experiences. Jim F.

5

Posted by john reed (john-reed@…>)

As a veteran of many a battery experience, I would recommend that you purchase a battery load tester. These items now cost around $20 and provide you with the ability to determine if you have a good battery or not. I’ve spent a lot of time chasing problems that didn’t exist because I had a weak cell in the battery. Unloaded the battery voltage was good but, when a load was applied, it tanked.

Another reading you might take is the resistance across the switch. It should be in the milli-ohm range. If not, then you have a problem there. I’ve also had problems with swaged terminal connectors. I try to replace them, when I find them and can, with more reliable clamp type.

jr

-----Original Message-----From: William A. Cormack [mailto:wacormack@…]Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 7:44 AMTo: FreedomSubject: [freedomyachts2003] Starting battery & switch
My, new to me, 1986 Freedom 36 has two battery banks. House has two 105AH AGMs connected in parallel and a single 875 CCA starting battery. The starting battery will barely crank the cold engine until it gets to its first compression stroke then it stops. Voltage at the battery is then about 10.7. Working back from the battery I find a .3 Volt drop across the battery switch. Question is is that the problem? How much is too much and is the switch repairable?

Thanks

Bill
_________________________________________________William A. Cormack, CPAPrincipal and Chief Financial OfficerWhelan Associates, LLCCorporate Real Estate ServicesBourne Counting House at One Merrill’s WharfNew Bedford, MA 02740Voice: 508-984-4100, Fax: 508-984-4101, Cell 508-254-5828MailTo:wacormack@…

6

Posted by Ketch 22 (ketch_22@…>)

875 CCAs is more than adequate, so I would suspect a short somewhere. In the
battery itself, the ignition switch, or the starter. A bad ground will also
exhibit symptoms of a weak battery. You might try detaching the ground cable
to your engine block and cleaning the surface.

tm
Ketch 22

-----Original Message-----
From: “William A. Cormack” <wacormack@…>
Sent: May 13, 2004 6:05 AM
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [freedomyachts2003] Starting battery & switch

The test I did was a battery check. A voltage reading while the starter is
stalled against the compression of 10+ volts indicates a good battery.

Bill

William A. Cormack, CPA
Principal and Chief Financial Officer
Whelan Associates, LLC
Corporate Real Estate Services
Bourne Counting House at One Merrill’s Wharf
New Bedford, MA 02740
Voice: 508-984-4100, Fax: 508-984-4101, Cell 508-254-5828
MailTo:wacormack@…
----- Original Message -----
From: Kevin Ogden
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 8:57 AM
Subject: Re: [freedomyachts2003] Starting battery & switch


Prob not the switch. Any battery that drops voltage that fast is probably at
fault itself. Is it fully charged? Suggest getting the battery itself checked.
----- Original Message -----
From: William A. Cormack
To: Freedom
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 12:44 PM
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Starting battery & switch


My, new to me, 1986 Freedom 36 has two battery banks. House has two 105AH
AGMs connected in parallel and a single 875 CCA starting battery. The starting
battery will barely crank the cold engine until it gets to its first compression
stroke then it stops. Voltage at the battery is then about 10.7. Working back
from the battery I find a .3 Volt drop across the battery switch. Question is
is that the problem? How much is too much and is the switch repairable?

Thanks

Bill

7

Posted by Trudy Kelsoe (graymare95120@…>)
You are on the right track with checking all wires and connections, especially the negative side that gets frequently ignored. Properly swaged terminals are considered to be the most reliable, but the catch is you need exactly the right tool for the terminal. Even a difference in brand between the tool and terminal for the same size can compromise the connection.

A little terminology helps. A short is a circuit fault where an inadvertant connection makes an unintended current path. What we are looking for is a weaker conductor or connection than intended, not quite an open circuit but weak.

That drop is not bad for a battery switch feeding a starter that isn’t turning.

If you have 10.8 Volts at the battery and lose only 0.3 in the switch, how much do you have at the starter itself? I didn’t hear any response about starting with the house batteries, but since some of the cables and terminations are different, it could give you a start when a good start battery might not because of connections.

Best of luck,

Wayne Kelsoe, EE, PE

Ketch 22 <ketch_22@…> wrote:
875 CCAs is more than adequate, so I would suspect a short somewhere. In the battery itself, the ignition switch, or the starter. A bad ground will also exhibit symptoms of a weak battery. You might try detaching the ground cable to your engine block and cleaning the surface.tmKetch 22-----Original Message-----From: “William A. Cormack” <wacormack@…>Sent: May 13, 2004 6:05 AMTo: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [freedomyachts2003] Starting battery & switchThe test I did was a battery check. A voltage reading while the starter is stalled against the compression of 10+ volts indicates a good battery. Bill_________________________________________________William A. Cormack, CPAPrincipal and Chief Financial OfficerWhelan Associates,
LLCCorporate Real Estate ServicesBourne Counting House at One Merrill’s WharfNew Bedford, MA 02740Voice: 508-984-4100, Fax: 508-984-4101, Cell 508-254-5828MailTo:wacormack@… ----- Original Message ----- From: Kevin Ogden To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 8:57 AM Subject: Re: [freedomyachts2003] Starting battery & switch Prob not the switch. Any battery that drops voltage that fast is probably at fault itself. Is it fully charged? Suggest getting the battery itself checked. ----- Original Message ----- From: William A. Cormack To: Freedom Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 12:44 PM Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Starting battery & switch My, new to me, 1986 Freedom 36 has two battery banks. House has two
105AH AGMs connected in parallel and a single 875 CCA starting battery. The starting battery will barely crank the cold engine until it gets to its first compression stroke then it stops. Voltage at the battery is then about 10.7. Working back from the battery I find a .3 Volt drop across the battery switch. Question is is that the problem? How much is too much and is the switch repairable? Thanks Bill
Do you Yahoo!?Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for ‘Shrek 2’

8

Posted by William A. Cormack (wacormack@…>)

Thanks for your several replies and suggestions.

The engine starts well on the house bank, indicating that the wiring from switch to starter (including ground) is good. I plan to replace the switch this weekend as launch date is Monday the 17th.

By the way, my F36 is hull # 46, was formerly Bounder from East Falmouth and was stored in the prior owner’s yard since last sailed in 2002. She will be renamed Hard Earned this weekend and will sail out of Padanaram, MA.

Bill

_________________________________________________William A. Cormack, CPAPrincipal and Chief Financial OfficerWhelan Associates, LLC, a Corporate Real Estate Service firmBourne Counting House at One Merrill’s WharfNew Bedford, MA 02740Voice: 508-984-4100, Fax: 508-984-4101, Cell 508-254-5828MailTo:wacormack@…

9

Posted by William A. Cormack (wacormack@…>)

An update on the starting problem I had posted:

It turned out that the starter was failing. The larger house bank had enough amps available to start it until the starter died on the launch ramp a week ago. Had to be towed to the mooring. Not a stellar start to the season but better than finding out it wouldn’t start in a remote location.

Bill Cormack
Sailing 1986 F-36 #46 “Hard Earned” out of New Bedford Yacht Club,
Padanaram, MA
_________________________________________________William A. Cormack, CPAPrincipal and Chief Financial OfficerWhelan Associates, LLC, a Corporate Real Estate Service firmBourne Counting House at One Merrill’s WharfNew Bedford, MA 02740Voice: 508-984-4100, Fax: 508-984-4101, Cell 508-254-5828MailTo:wacormack@…
----- Original Message ----- From: William A. Cormack
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 7:54 AM
Subject: Re: [freedomyachts2003] Starting battery & switch

Thanks for your several replies and suggestions.

The engine starts well on the house bank, indicating that the wiring from switch to starter (including ground) is good. I plan to replace the switch this weekend as launch date is Monday the 17th.

By the way, my F36 is hull # 46, was formerly Bounder from East Falmouth and was stored in the prior owner’s yard since last sailed in 2002. She will be renamed Hard Earned this weekend and will sail out of Padanaram, MA.

Bill

_________________________________________________William A. Cormack, CPAPrincipal and Chief Financial OfficerWhelan Associates, LLC, a Corporate Real Estate Service firmBourne Counting House at One Merrill’s WharfNew Bedford, MA 02740Voice: 508-984-4100, Fax: 508-984-4101, Cell 508-254-5828MailTo:wacormack@…