I recently bought an F30. I noticed that the drip from the stuffing box does not go directly into the bilge but rather collects in a tray under the motor. Once it overflows, the water does go into the bilge but by this time it comes into contact with the motor (not a good idea). Is there a way to deal with this, or should I consider installing a dripless stuffing box this winter? (an expensive proposition). Thanks for the help.
JSchneider
Weeble, F30
Huntington, NY
I don’t have your boat, but it seems to me that you have 4 options:
- Install a drip-catching device under the stuffing box and route the water directly to the bilge.
- Shorten the tray so that the drips don’t collect in it.
- Install a hose from the tray to the bilge so that it doesn’t collect much water.
- Install a dripless seal
– Geoff
I thought that the F-30s came with a Syntron mechanical seal, not a stuffing box.
On the other hand, my F-30 has a Norscott seal that someone apparently retrofitted, so I guess someone could have installed a stuffing box.
If it is a mechanical seal and not a stuffing box then shouldn’t the leakage be addressed (like Tricia did) by installing a new seal and maybe shaft, not just conveying the leakage to the bilge?
I called it a stuffing box but it doesn’t look like a traditional one. Will investigate further and let you know. Thanks for the reply.
Thank you Rvivian! I checked and indeed I have a Syntron shaft seal. After some investigating, I spoke to the people in Garlock who now make the seal and they knew exactly what I was talking about. The bad news is that a new one costs about $900 (not a misprint!) Did anyone install a PSS dripless shaft seal on their boat? They go for about $250. I had one in my previous boat and it worked great.
Thanks for your information. The people in my marina had never heard of a Syntron seal!!
JSchneider
I replaced my Syntron with a Tides Marine dripless seal that had been factory customized for the Freedom. PSS seals are too big for the F30. I got mine from Paul Dennis at Warren River Boatworks. It cost $282 including shipping. You may find that the syntron has scored the shaft and you need to replace it. You may also find that you need to cut back a bit of the fiberglass around the shaft log so that the seal will slide on far enough to use 2 clamps on. I think I also had to cut about 1/4" of the shaft log so the front end of the seal wouldn’t run into the coupling. I used a multimaster type tool to both cut the log and trim back the glass. It wasn’t hard.
I had a PSS seal but it started grabbing causing a concerning vibration, replaced it with a Tides marine seal which seems to work well. To use a tides seal (lip seal) the prop shaft where the seal runs must be free of score marks. These seals are also water injected so a reliable anti siphon valve is required or you run the risk of siphoning back into your engine and creating a hydro lock situation. I am happy with the tides seal over the PSS?
Cheers Dale
Freeform
I didn’t have a Syntron & at this hour of the AM I can’t remember what the old one was, but I replaced it with a PSS and have been quite happy. The new models which are self burping are very good.
– Geoff
I have F28CK which has plenty of space for seal and drips directly into the bilge. I decided to replace my 14 year old PSS seal. I looked at several options including new PSS. The new PSS requires a vent line above the water line which is connected to a plastic fitting on the PSS. I decided to install a new Buck Algonquin packing box with Graphtex Ultra shaft packing. Reputably this combination yields an almost drip free system. My decision was based on the KISS principle. Packing can be replaced with boat in water with universally available packing materials. Most dripless solutions require special parts and the boat be out of the water. I was nervous about the plastic parts in the vent hose; if that breaks while the boat is unattended you no longer have a dripless system.
Tricia: DO you also have an F30? The distance from the end of the fiberglass tube to the motor coupling in my F30 is only about 3.5 inches. Obviously is not enough for a PSS, but according to the specs it is also too short for a Tides Marine seal. Did Warren River Boatworks customized a seal for you? Thanks for your help.
JSchneider
I think Warren River worked with Tides Marine and the factory made the adjustments. You can phone Paul Dennis for details: 401-245-6949. I’ll try to post pics here.
Pics posted under documentation & photos heading.
The Norscot seal in my F-30 appears to fit where the old Syntron seal was without modification. Costs about $380.
Take a look as an alternative.
If you have enough shaft you can also add a spare seal that sits there and can replace the working seal in the water if need be. Just need to purchase the spare seal carrier option. ( Tides seal ). The PSS seal i had was the non breather model.
Cheers Dale.
Freeform.
I spoke to Paul Dennis at Warren River and he explained that the customized seal that Tides Marine makes has to be changed completely whenever it fails (you can’t just change the lip seal), but he has been installing these seals for 8 years and so far none failed! These seals are made for the Freedom 30, 32, 36 and 38 since these boats have very little room between the fiberglass tube and the motor. Also due to the design of these boats you MUST use a dripless seal. There are very limited choices: replace the seal with the original Syntron mechanical seal ($900), the Norscot seal that uses Dextron fluid to lubricate the seals ($400) or the customized Tides Marine ($275). Warren River Boatworks, who specializes in Freedoms, uses exclusively the Tides Marine seal. By the way, the PSS is too big for these boats and the factory could not customize one to fit the short space. As you probably can guess, I ordered a customized Tides marine seal. I’ll let you know in the Spring how it all played out!
Thanks to everyone for their help, this forum has been absolutely fantastic.
JSchneider
1987 Freedom 30
Well folks, it is now almost summer and I am still not in the water. I just needed to change the shaft seal…well, as I stated before, in order to remove the shaft, the yard mechanics had to cut the shaft. Now, in order to remove the shaft, they had to remove the cutless bearing from the strut. In doing so, the strut broke due to electrolosys. Warren River Boatworks is casting a new strut which will not be ready for at least 3-4 weeks! As soon as this mess is over, I’ll report on its outcome.
Finally, Weeble is now at its mooring ready for another season. The final bill was a bit over 3k, but with a new shaft, coupling, strut, cutless bearing and shaft seal what do you expect? Everything seems to be in order, but I still get a few drops of water after about one hour of motoring. Is this expected from the Tides Marine seal?
I am also still getting some raw water in the pan under the engine that I could not find the origin yet. I suspect that the water pump may be leaking through the weep holes (time to change the pump?). I tried to put picture of new seal but file was too large.
Thanks again to everyone for their help.
I just wanted to give an update to my shaft seal project. Now that the season is winding down, I am glad to report that the Tides Marine seal worked perfectly all summer…I even stopped checking it every single time that I use the boat! If anyone has any questions about any part of the project please let me know, I am glad to help.
Jorge
Weeble, 1987 F39
Huntington, NY
I have replaced my Syntron seal twice on my F30 (and the prop shaft once), and it is leaking again. I have spoken to Paul Dennis about the Tides Marine seal and he thinks it should be installed on a new shaft, with a new coupling and having the engine realigned. Unfortunately I am in the Bahamas where everything is very expensive and skilled labor is scarce. So I have decided to nurse my Syntron along for another season until I can get a refit in the US. Paul suggested the alternative of installing grease nipples and injecting grease into the seal. I know that some of you have gone the other way–removing the grease that other owners put in. Was overheating the problem, and if so, how serious? Otherwise it seems to be the best way of keeping water out of the sump, which others have noted, does not drain directly to the bilge.
Paul
F30 #58 “Bagatelle”