Through Hull Upkeep?

Archives
1

Posted by Skip Turpin (skipperf33@…>)

HOWDY FOLKS,

Let me apologize ahead of time! I am an Engineer Type, so trying to
get a little information out of me is kinda like trying to take a sip
from a FIRE HOSE!!!

I have my 1982 F33 on the hard for an extended stay next to my barn.
Sure beats a boat yard! &^%$#^&(!!!

Over time my original through hulls (still in good shape BTW) have
gotten very stiff, not to mention the “Y” valve at the black water
tank, which I fear is terminal:( (Maybe this is a good time to
seriously consider a Composting Head)???

I have sprayed penetrating oil up from outboard into the through
hulls and that helped quite a bit, but I don’t think it did much to
remove the underlying cause of the problem which I feel is mineral
deposits! Now that I have complete and extended inboard and outboard
access, I would like to fix the problem right.

I have been thinking about treating the problem by installing a cork
outboard, then by the use of a hypodermic needle and injecting a
solution through the cork that could stand and dissolve any latent
mineral deposits left behind from organic growth or dare I say,
Urine?

BTW, I have since found out about the problem of running urine
through a metal through hull immersed in sea water and the
subsequent mineral deposits left behind:( Take it from me folks,
this is a NO, NO, even when underway! Another good reason to expel
black water above the waterline, beyond the 3 mile limit of course:)

Well, where was I? Oh yes, treatment options! I had originally
thought that Vinegar would be a good choice, until I tried it on the
hard water mineral buildup on one of my bare brass faucets in my
home. I wrapped a Vinegar soaked rag around the outlet of the faucet
and left it there overnight. The next morning I was shocked to find
that the Vinegar had eaten away not only the mineral deposits but
several thousands of an inch of brass, leaving the faucet badly
scarred and me a huge sanding and polishing job:(

I’m ALL EARS when it comes to suggestions on this folks!

WOW, it just occurred to me that the idea of using a cork and syringe
outboard, would work with the boat in the water just as well out!
One could evacuate the sea water through the cork and then inject the
dissolving agent. Gee whiz, I wish I had thought of this a long time
ago, it would have been a great preventative maintenance task when
cleaning the bottom or replacing a Zink! If one connected a
retrieval line to the cork, you could finish the job without even
getting wet again:) GEE, I COULD HAVE HAD A V8… YUMMY!

Skip
1982 F33 CK, Fixed Shoal Keel
Southern CA.

2

Posted by Herman and Gail Schiller (hschiller2@…>)

On the subject of brass-eating vinegar, through-hulls and their valve
are generally made of bronze. If not, then they’re made of “Marelon”
which I think is a high-priced nylon reinforced with glass fibers
therein (and is immune to vinegar). Bronze is a much more corrosion
resistant alloy. Herm

At 05:30 PM 11/5/2008, you wrote:

HOWDY FOLKS,

Let me apologize ahead of time! I am an Engineer Type, so trying to
get a little information out of me is kinda like trying to take a sip
from a FIRE HOSE!!!

I have my 1982 F33 on the hard for an extended stay next to my barn.
Sure beats a boat yard! &^%$#^&(!!!

Over time my original through hulls (still in good shape BTW) have
gotten very stiff, not to mention the “Y” valve at the black water
tank, which I fear is terminal:( (Maybe this is a good time to
seriously consider a Composting Head)???

I have sprayed penetrating oil up from outboard into the through
hulls and that helped quite a bit, but I don’t think it did much to
remove the underlying cause of the problem which I feel is mineral
deposits! Now that I have complete and extended inboard and outboard
access, I would like to fix the problem right.

I have been thinking about treating the problem by installing a cork
outboard, then by the use of a hypodermic needle and injecting a
solution through the cork that could stand and dissolve any latent
mineral deposits left behind from organic growth or dare I say,
Urine?

BTW, I have since found out about the problem of running urine
through a metal through hull immersed in sea water and the
subsequent mineral deposits left behind:( Take it from me folks,
this is a NO, NO, even when underway! Another good reason to expel
black water above the waterline, beyond the 3 mile limit of course:)

Well, where was I? Oh yes, treatment options! I had originally
thought that Vinegar would be a good choice, until I tried it on the
hard water mineral buildup on one of my bare brass faucets in my
home. I wrapped a Vinegar soaked rag around the outlet of the faucet
and left it there overnight. The next morning I was shocked to find
that the Vinegar had eaten away not only the mineral deposits but
several thousands of an inch of brass, leaving the faucet badly
scarred and me a huge sanding and polishing job:(

I’m ALL EARS when it comes to suggestions on this folks!

WOW, it just occurred to me that the idea of using a cork and syringe
outboard, would work with the boat in the water just as well out!
One could evacuate the sea water through the cork and then inject the
dissolving agent. Gee whiz, I wish I had thought of this a long time
ago, it would have been a great preventative maintenance task when
cleaning the bottom or replacing a Zink! If one connected a
retrieval line to the cork, you could finish the job without even
getting wet again:) GEE, I COULD HAVE HAD A V8… YUMMY!

Skip
1982 F33 CK, Fixed Shoal Keel
Southern CA.

3

Posted by Jay Glen (svfantasy@…>)

The correct way to service the thru-hulls is to disassemble them and
use an automotive lapping compound to remove the fouling.
You probably have the bronze tapered thru-hull valves, if so, remove
the locking nut, remove the retaining plate, they both unscrew. Then
pull the tapered valve body from the valve housing. If it is frozen,
lightly tap with a rubber mallet to break it free. Clean out the big
stuff, then use a 220 grit valve lapping compound (found in any auto
parts store). Spread a good amount on the valve body and replace the
valve body into the valve housing. Then work the valve back and forth
several times (I do about fifty). Check to see if further lapping is
required. Clean all surfaces and lubricate with Lubriplate or any
quality waterproof grease, and reassemble.

Good luck!

On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 5:40 PM, Herman and Gail Schiller
<hschiller2@…> wrote:

On the subject of brass-eating vinegar, through-hulls and their valve
are generally made of bronze. If not, then they’re made of “Marelon”
which I think is a high-priced nylon reinforced with glass fibers
therein (and is immune to vinegar). Bronze is a much more corrosion
resistant alloy. Herm

At 05:30 PM 11/5/2008, you wrote:

HOWDY FOLKS,

Let me apologize ahead of time! I am an Engineer Type, so trying to
get a little information out of me is kinda like trying to take a sip
from a FIRE HOSE!!!

I have my 1982 F33 on the hard for an extended stay next to my barn.
Sure beats a boat yard! &^%$#^&(!!!

Over time my original through hulls (still in good shape BTW) have
gotten very stiff, not to mention the “Y” valve at the black water
tank, which I fear is terminal:( (Maybe this is a good time to
seriously consider a Composting Head)???

I have sprayed penetrating oil up from outboard into the through
hulls and that helped quite a bit, but I don’t think it did much to
remove the underlying cause of the problem which I feel is mineral
deposits! Now that I have complete and extended inboard and outboard
access, I would like to fix the problem right.

I have been thinking about treating the problem by installing a cork
outboard, then by the use of a hypodermic needle and injecting a
solution through the cork that could stand and dissolve any latent
mineral deposits left behind from organic growth or dare I say,
Urine?

BTW, I have since found out about the problem of running urine
through a metal through hull immersed in sea water and the
subsequent mineral deposits left behind:( Take it from me folks,
this is a NO, NO, even when underway! Another good reason to expel
black water above the waterline, beyond the 3 mile limit of course:)

Well, where was I? Oh yes, treatment options! I had originally
thought that Vinegar would be a good choice, until I tried it on the
hard water mineral buildup on one of my bare brass faucets in my
home. I wrapped a Vinegar soaked rag around the outlet of the faucet
and left it there overnight. The next morning I was shocked to find
that the Vinegar had eaten away not only the mineral deposits but
several thousands of an inch of brass, leaving the faucet badly
scarred and me a huge sanding and polishing job:(

I’m ALL EARS when it comes to suggestions on this folks!

WOW, it just occurred to me that the idea of using a cork and syringe
outboard, would work with the boat in the water just as well out!
One could evacuate the sea water through the cork and then inject the
dissolving agent. Gee whiz, I wish I had thought of this a long time
ago, it would have been a great preventative maintenance task when
cleaning the bottom or replacing a Zink! If one connected a
retrieval line to the cork, you could finish the job without even
getting wet again:) GEE, I COULD HAVE HAD A V8… YUMMY!

Skip
1982 F33 CK, Fixed Shoal Keel
Southern CA.



\

Jay Glen ki6jtk
s/v Fantasy
Freedom 40 Cat-Ketch
San Francisco Bay Area

4

Posted by michel.capel (michel.capel@…>)

I used cleaning vinegar to clean out my engine cooling channels. No
problem. Just don’t let it sit there too long. The same for
throughhulls. Every now and then I pour half a bottle of vinegar into
the head and pump it into the hoses. Never had any problems with that.
Michel




— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “Jay Glen” <svfantasy@…>
wrote:

The correct way to service the thru-hulls is to disassemble them and
use an automotive lapping compound to remove the fouling.
You probably have the bronze tapered thru-hull valves, if so, remove
the locking nut, remove the retaining plate, they both unscrew. Then
pull the tapered valve body from the valve housing. If it is frozen,
lightly tap with a rubber mallet to break it free. Clean out the big
stuff, then use a 220 grit valve lapping compound (found in any auto
parts store). Spread a good amount on the valve body and replace the
valve body into the valve housing. Then work the valve back and forth
several times (I do about fifty). Check to see if further lapping is
required. Clean all surfaces and lubricate with Lubriplate or any
quality waterproof grease, and reassemble.

Good luck!

On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 5:40 PM, Herman and Gail Schiller
<hschiller2@…> wrote:

On the subject of brass-eating vinegar, through-hulls and their valve
are generally made of bronze. If not, then they’re made of “Marelon”
which I think is a high-priced nylon reinforced with glass fibers
therein (and is immune to vinegar). Bronze is a much more corrosion
resistant alloy. Herm

At 05:30 PM 11/5/2008, you wrote:

HOWDY FOLKS,

Let me apologize ahead of time! I am an Engineer Type, so trying to
get a little information out of me is kinda like trying to take a sip
from a FIRE HOSE!!!

I have my 1982 F33 on the hard for an extended stay next to my barn.
Sure beats a boat yard! &^%$#^&(!!!

Over time my original through hulls (still in good shape BTW) have
gotten very stiff, not to mention the “Y” valve at the black water
tank, which I fear is terminal:( (Maybe this is a good time to
seriously consider a Composting Head)???

I have sprayed penetrating oil up from outboard into the through
hulls and that helped quite a bit, but I don’t think it did much to
remove the underlying cause of the problem which I feel is mineral
deposits! Now that I have complete and extended inboard and outboard
access, I would like to fix the problem right.

I have been thinking about treating the problem by installing a cork
outboard, then by the use of a hypodermic needle and injecting a
solution through the cork that could stand and dissolve any latent
mineral deposits left behind from organic growth or dare I say,
Urine?

BTW, I have since found out about the problem of running urine
through a metal through hull immersed in sea water and the
subsequent mineral deposits left behind:( Take it from me folks,
this is a NO, NO, even when underway! Another good reason to expel
black water above the waterline, beyond the 3 mile limit of course:)

Well, where was I? Oh yes, treatment options! I had originally
thought that Vinegar would be a good choice, until I tried it on the
hard water mineral buildup on one of my bare brass faucets in my
home. I wrapped a Vinegar soaked rag around the outlet of the faucet
and left it there overnight. The next morning I was shocked to find
that the Vinegar had eaten away not only the mineral deposits but
several thousands of an inch of brass, leaving the faucet badly
scarred and me a huge sanding and polishing job:(

I’m ALL EARS when it comes to suggestions on this folks!

WOW, it just occurred to me that the idea of using a cork and syringe
outboard, would work with the boat in the water just as well out!
One could evacuate the sea water through the cork and then inject the
dissolving agent. Gee whiz, I wish I had thought of this a long time
ago, it would have been a great preventative maintenance task when
cleaning the bottom or replacing a Zink! If one connected a
retrieval line to the cork, you could finish the job without even
getting wet again:) GEE, I COULD HAVE HAD A V8… YUMMY!

Skip
1982 F33 CK, Fixed Shoal Keel
Southern CA.

–
Jay Glen ki6jtk
s/v Fantasy
Freedom 40 Cat-Ketch
San Francisco Bay Area

5

Posted by Skipper Skip (skipperf33@…>)
Herm, Thanks for the input!

You are quite right about brass being much more susceptible to corrosion than bronze, I was merely expressing my shock at how fast the vinegar ate into the brass. I had always considered vinegar as being pretty benign stuff, but now that my eyes have been opened, I will be much more cautious when using it in the future!

When I was a kid, I remember doing a science experiment where I took the leg bone of a chicken and immersed it in a jar of vinegar for a week or two. When I retrieved the bone, it was as though it had been turned to rubber. I remember at the time, it being quite fascinating!

Skip
1982 F33CK, Fixed Shoal Keel
Southern CA.— On Wed, 11/5/08, Herman and Gail Schiller <hschiller2@…> wrote:
From: Herman and Gail Schiller <hschiller2@…>Subject: Re: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Through Hull Upkeep?To: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.comDate: Wednesday, November 5, 2008, 5:40 PM


On the subject of brass-eating vinegar, through-hulls and their valve are generally made of bronze. If not, then they’re made of “Marelon” which I think is a high-priced nylon reinforced with glass fibers therein (and is immune to vinegar). Bronze is a much more corrosion resistant alloy. HermAt 05:30 PM 11/5/2008, you wrote:>HOWDY FOLKS,>>Let me apologize ahead of time! I am an Engineer Type, so trying to>get a little information out of me is kinda like trying to take a sip>from a FIRE HOSE!!!>>I have my 1982 F33 on the hard for an extended stay next to my barn.>Sure beats a boat yard! &^%$#^&(!! !!!>>Over time my original through hulls (still in good shape BTW) have>gotten very stiff, not to mention the “Y” valve at the black water>tank, which I fear is terminal:( (Maybe this is a good time to>seriously
consider a Composting Head)???>>I have sprayed penetrating oil up from outboard into the through>hulls and that helped quite a bit, but I don’t think it did much to>remove the underlying cause of the problem which I feel is mineral>deposits! Now that I have complete and extended inboard and outboard>access, I would like to fix the problem right.>>I have been thinking about treating the problem by installing a cork>outboard, then by the use of a hypodermic needle and injecting a>solution through the cork that could stand and dissolve any latent>mineral deposits left behind from organic growth or dare I say,>Urine?>>BTW, I have since found out about the problem of running urine>through a metal through hull immersed in sea water and the>subsequent mineral deposits left behind:( Take it from me folks,>this is a NO, NO, even when underway!
Another good reason to expel>black water above the waterline, beyond the 3 mile limit of course:)>>Well, where was I? Oh yes, treatment options! I had originally>thought that Vinegar would be a good choice, until I tried it on the>hard water mineral buildup on one of my bare brass faucets in my>home. I wrapped a Vinegar soaked rag around the outlet of the faucet>and left it there overnight. The next morning I was shocked to find>that the Vinegar had eaten away not only the mineral deposits but>several thousands of an inch of brass, leaving the faucet badly>scarred and me a huge sanding and polishing job:(>>I’m ALL EARS when it comes to suggestions on this folks!>>WOW, it just occurred to me that the idea of using a cork and syringe>outboard, would work with the boat in the water just as well out!>One could evacuate the sea water through the
cork and then inject the>dissolving agent. Gee whiz, I wish I had thought of this a long time>ago, it would have been a great preventative maintenance task when>cleaning the bottom or replacing a Zink! If one connected a>retrieval line to the cork, you could finish the job without even>getting wet again:) GEE, I COULD HAVE HAD A V8… … YUMMY!>>Skip>1982 F33 CK, Fixed Shoal Keel>Southern CA.>>

6

Posted by Skipper Skip (skipperf33@…>)
Jay,

I love it when the informed voice of experience rears its pretty little head! Armed with your knowledge, I will dig into those through hulls with a great deal more confidence. Thanks!

I¢ll let everyone know how this all turns out:)

Skip
1982 F33CK, Fixed Shoal Keel
Southern CA.— On Wed, 11/5/08, Jay Glen <svfantasy@…> wrote:
From: Jay Glen <svfantasy@…>Subject: Re: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Through Hull Upkeep?To: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.comDate: Wednesday, November 5, 2008, 6:37 PM


The correct way to service the thru-hulls is to disassemble them anduse an automotive lapping compound to remove the fouling.You probably have the bronze tapered thru-hull valves, if so, removethe locking nut, remove the retaining plate, they both unscrew. Thenpull the tapered valve body from the valve housing. If it is frozen,lightly tap with a rubber mallet to break it free. Clean out the bigstuff, then use a 220 grit valve lapping compound (found in any autoparts store). Spread a good amount on the valve body and replace thevalve body into the valve housing. Then work the valve back and forthseveral times (I do about fifty). Check to see if further lapping isrequired. Clean all surfaces and lubricate with Lubriplate or anyquality waterproof grease, and reassemble.Good luck!On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 5:40 PM, Herman and Gail Schiller<hschiller2@suddenli nk.net> wrote:> On the subject of brass-eating vinegar, through-hulls and their valve> are generally made of bronze. If not, then they’re made of “Marelon”> which I think is a high-priced nylon reinforced with glass fibers> therein (and is immune to vinegar). Bronze is a much more corrosion> resistant alloy. Herm>> At 05:30 PM 11/5/2008, you wrote:>>>HOWDY FOLKS,>>>>Let me apologize ahead of time! I am an Engineer Type, so trying to>>get a little information out of me is kinda like trying to take a sip>>from a FIRE HOSE!!!>>>>I have my 1982 F33 on the hard for an extended stay next to my barn.>>Sure beats a boat yard! &^%$#^&(!! !!!>>>>Over time my original through hulls (still in good shape BTW) have>>gotten very
stiff, not to mention the “Y” valve at the black water>>tank, which I fear is terminal:( (Maybe this is a good time to>>seriously consider a Composting Head)???>>>>I have sprayed penetrating oil up from outboard into the through>>hulls and that helped quite a bit, but I don’t think it did much to>>remove the underlying cause of the problem which I feel is mineral>>deposits! Now that I have complete and extended inboard and outboard>>access, I would like to fix the problem right.>>>>I have been thinking about treating the problem by installing a cork>>outboard, then by the use of a hypodermic needle and injecting a>>solution through the cork that could stand and dissolve any latent>>mineral deposits left behind from organic growth or dare I say,>>Urine?>>>>BTW, I have since found out about the
problem of running urine>>through a metal through hull immersed in sea water and the>>subsequent mineral deposits left behind:( Take it from me folks,>>this is a NO, NO, even when underway! Another good reason to expel>>black water above the waterline, beyond the 3 mile limit of course:)>>>>Well, where was I? Oh yes, treatment options! I had originally>>thought that Vinegar would be a good choice, until I tried it on the>>hard water mineral buildup on one of my bare brass faucets in my>>home. I wrapped a Vinegar soaked rag around the outlet of the faucet>>and left it there overnight. The next morning I was shocked to find>>that the Vinegar had eaten away not only the mineral deposits but>>several thousands of an inch of brass, leaving the faucet badly>>scarred and me a huge sanding and polishing
job:(>>>>I’m ALL EARS when it comes to suggestions on this folks!>>>>WOW, it just occurred to me that the idea of using a cork and syringe>>outboard, would work with the boat in the water just as well out!>>One could evacuate the sea water through the cork and then inject the>>dissolving agent. Gee whiz, I wish I had thought of this a long time>>ago, it would have been a great preventative maintenance task when>>cleaning the bottom or replacing a Zink! If one connected a>>retrieval line to the cork, you could finish the job without even>>getting wet again:) GEE, I COULD HAVE HAD A V8… … YUMMY!>>>>Skip>>1982 F33 CK, Fixed Shoal Keel>>Southern CA.>>>>>> – Jay Glen ki6jtks/v FantasyFreedom 40 Cat-KetchSan Francisco Bay
Area

7

Posted by Skipper Skip (skipperf33@…>)
Thanks Michel,

Sounds like this might be a good way to tackle my frozen black water “Y” valve. That valve appears to be made of plastic, so I am pretty comfortable using vinegar there!

I¢ll be back with feedback shortly.

Skip
1982 F33CK, Fixed Shoal Keel
Southern CA.— On Thu, 11/6/08, michel.capel <michel.capel@…> wrote:
From: michel.capel <michel.capel@…>Subject: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Re: Through Hull Upkeep?To: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.comDate: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 12:12 AM


I used cleaning vinegar to clean out my engine cooling channels. Noproblem. Just don’t let it sit there too long. The same forthroughhulls. Every now and then I pour half a bottle of vinegar intothe head and pump it into the hoses. Never had any problems with that.Michel— In FreedomOwnersGroup@ yahoogroups. com, “Jay Glen” <svfantasy@. …>wrote:>> The correct way to service the thru-hulls is to disassemble them and> use an automotive lapping compound to remove the fouling.> You probably have the bronze tapered thru-hull valves, if so, remove> the locking nut, remove the retaining plate, they both unscrew. Then> pull the tapered valve body from the valve housing. If it is frozen,> lightly tap with a rubber mallet to break it free. Clean out the big> stuff, then use a 220 grit
valve lapping compound (found in any auto> parts store). Spread a good amount on the valve body and replace the> valve body into the valve housing. Then work the valve back and forth> several times (I do about fifty). Check to see if further lapping is> required. Clean all surfaces and lubricate with Lubriplate or any> quality waterproof grease, and reassemble.> > Good luck!> > On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 5:40 PM, Herman and Gail Schiller> <hschiller2@ …> wrote:> > On the subject of brass-eating vinegar, through-hulls and their valve> > are generally made of bronze. If not, then they’re made of “Marelon”> > which I think is a high-priced nylon reinforced with glass fibers> > therein (and is immune to vinegar). Bronze is a much more corrosion> > resistant alloy. Herm> >> > At 05:30 PM 11/5/2008, you wrote:>

HOWDY FOLKS,> >>> >>Let me apologize ahead of time! I am an Engineer Type, so trying to> >>get a little information out of me is kinda like trying to take a sip> >>from a FIRE HOSE!!!> >>> >>I have my 1982 F33 on the hard for an extended stay next to my barn.> >>Sure beats a boat yard! &^%$#^&(!! !!!> >>> >>Over time my original through hulls (still in good shape BTW) have> >>gotten very stiff, not to mention the “Y” valve at the black water> >>tank, which I fear is terminal:( (Maybe this is a good time to> >>seriously consider a Composting Head)???> >>> >>I have sprayed penetrating oil up from outboard into the through> >>hulls and that helped quite a bit, but I don’t think it did much to> >>remove the
underlying cause of the problem which I feel is mineral> >>deposits! Now that I have complete and extended inboard and outboard> >>access, I would like to fix the problem right.> >>> >>I have been thinking about treating the problem by installing a cork> >>outboard, then by the use of a hypodermic needle and injecting a> >>solution through the cork that could stand and dissolve any latent> >>mineral deposits left behind from organic growth or dare I say,> >>Urine?> >>> >>BTW, I have since found out about the problem of running urine> >>through a metal through hull immersed in sea water and the> >>subsequent mineral deposits left behind:( Take it from me folks,> >>this is a NO, NO, even when underway! Another good reason to expel> >>black water above the waterline, beyond the
3 mile limit of course:)> >>> >>Well, where was I? Oh yes, treatment options! I had originally> >>thought that Vinegar would be a good choice, until I tried it on the> >>hard water mineral buildup on one of my bare brass faucets in my> >>home. I wrapped a Vinegar soaked rag around the outlet of the faucet> >>and left it there overnight. The next morning I was shocked to find> >>that the Vinegar had eaten away not only the mineral deposits but> >>several thousands of an inch of brass, leaving the faucet badly> >>scarred and me a huge sanding and polishing job:(> >>> >>I’m ALL EARS when it comes to suggestions on this folks!> >>> >>WOW, it just occurred to me that the idea of using a cork and syringe> >>outboard, would work with the boat in the water just as well out!>
One could evacuate the sea water through the cork and then inject the> >>dissolving agent. Gee whiz, I wish I had thought of this a long time> >>ago, it would have been a great preventative maintenance task when> >>cleaning the bottom or replacing a Zink! If one connected a> >>retrieval line to the cork, you could finish the job without even> >>getting wet again:) GEE, I COULD HAVE HAD A V8… … YUMMY!> >>> >>Skip> >>1982 F33 CK, Fixed Shoal Keel> >>Southern CA.> >>> >>> >> > > > > > – > Jay Glen ki6jtk> s/v Fantasy> Freedom 40 Cat-Ketch> San Francisco Bay Area>