Water in F-35 rudder

Posted by valkyrie_1996 (akuehne@…>)

I have a 1996 Freedom 35. I pulled the rudder this year to relpace a
warn lower rudder bearing. I’m refinishing the rudder while it’s out
and after sanding, I’m getting water dripping from the top of the
rudder. I drilled a small hole in the top and a ounce or two of clear
water dripped out. The rudder seems to be structurally sound and
uniformly laminated. It’s not heavy enough to be really soaked. Is
the core closed cell foam, or balsa? Anyone with previous experience
have any ideas as to what I should do?

Posted by andre laviolette (andrelaviolette@…>)
A little water in a rudder may be more common place than one would believe ! Every rudder that has a shaft ( rudder stock ) or through bolts has a probable entry point for some water intrusion. The trick is to empty this water ( drill a 1/4 inch hole in top and bottom of rudder or bulges ) if the boat is hauled out in freezing conditions. A cup or more of water is not uncommon ! In some cases one can inject resin into rudder void to replace the water once rudder has dried out. A wet vac can a help in draining and drying. Two small holes are necessary. One for draining / vaccuming and one to let air in. Inject the resin in when you think rudder is dry. Seal the holes. valkyrie_1996 <akuehne@…> wrote: I have a 1996 Freedom 35. I pulled the rudder this year to relpace a warn lower rudder bearing. I’m refinishing the rudder while it’s out and after sanding, I’m getting water dripping from the top of the rudder. I drilled a small hole in the top and a ounce or two of clear water dripped out. The rudder seems to be structurally sound and uniformly laminated. It’s not heavy enough to be really soaked. Is the core closed cell foam, or balsa? Anyone with previous experience have any ideas as to what I should do?
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Posted by Thomas Wales (twales@…>)

My surveyor told me he’s never seen a rudder that didn’t have water
inside. He suggested to drill a hole in the bottom after hauling in the
winter to let it dry out, and filling the hole with epoxy before launch in
the spring. The freedom rudders are as well made as the boats, so he
wasn’t overly concerned.
TW F32 Anoush Koon



At 08:17 PM 2/18/2007 +0000, you wrote:

I have a 1996 Freedom 35. I pulled the rudder this year to relpace a
warn lower rudder bearing. I’m refinishing the rudder while it’s out
and after sanding, I’m getting water dripping from the top of the
rudder. I drilled a small hole in the top and a ounce or two of clear
water dripped out. The rudder seems to be structurally sound and
uniformly laminated. It’s not heavy enough to be really soaked. Is
the core closed cell foam, or balsa? Anyone with previous experience
have any ideas as to what I should do?

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4:35 PM

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Posted by Dave_Benjamin (dave_benjamin@…>)

I agree with your surveyor. I was quite surprised to find a very dry
rudder on our 1973 Ranger 33 though. On TPI built Freedoms the
rudderstocks are usually composite and are chemically bonded to the
rudders. The only thing I’ve ever heard of happening to a Freedom
rudder was a guy hitting a submerged object and losing a skin.

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Wales <twales@…>
wrote:

My surveyor told me he’s never seen a rudder that didn’t have water
inside. He suggested to drill a hole in the bottom after hauling
in the
winter to let it dry out, and filling the hole with epoxy before
launch in
the spring. The freedom rudders are as well made as the boats, so
he
wasn’t overly concerned.
TW F32 Anoush Koon

At 08:17 PM 2/18/2007 +0000, you wrote:

I have a 1996 Freedom 35. I pulled the rudder this year to relpace
a
warn lower rudder bearing. I’m refinishing the rudder while it’s
out
and after sanding, I’m getting water dripping from the top of the
rudder. I drilled a small hole in the top and a ounce or two of
clear
water dripped out. The rudder seems to be structurally sound and
uniformly laminated. It’s not heavy enough to be really soaked. Is
the core closed cell foam, or balsa? Anyone with previous
experience
have any ideas as to what I should do?

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.18.2/692 - Release Date:
2/18/2007
4:35 PM

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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2/18/2007 4:35 PM

Posted by Mark Edwards (markedwards55@…>)

The Freedom 35 rudder is made in a two piece mold. Each skin is
glassed and the carbon fiber rudder stock is glassed to one side.
When that is set, the mold is closed and two-part expanding closed
cell foam is poured in from the top. The top is later sealed. This
is a strong and reliable system but does allow for the possibilty
the rudder stock to torque the top and allow a little water into the
blade where water might find a void or two in the foam. The only
concern is if there is a lot of water accumlating, winter freeze-
thaw cycles could cause damage but fixing the problem is easy as
indicated below by others.
Mark Edwards

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Dave_Benjamin”
<dave_benjamin@…> wrote:

I agree with your surveyor. I was quite surprised to find a very
dry
rudder on our 1973 Ranger 33 though. On TPI built Freedoms the
rudderstocks are usually composite and are chemically bonded to
the
rudders. The only thing I’ve ever heard of happening to a Freedom
rudder was a guy hitting a submerged object and losing a skin.

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Wales <twales@>
wrote:

My surveyor told me he’s never seen a rudder that didn’t have
water
inside. He suggested to drill a hole in the bottom after
hauling
in the
winter to let it dry out, and filling the hole with epoxy before
launch in
the spring. The freedom rudders are as well made as the boats,
so
he
wasn’t overly concerned.
TW F32 Anoush Koon

At 08:17 PM 2/18/2007 +0000, you wrote:

I have a 1996 Freedom 35. I pulled the rudder this year to
relpace
a
warn lower rudder bearing. I’m refinishing the rudder while
it’s
out
and after sanding, I’m getting water dripping from the top of
the
rudder. I drilled a small hole in the top and a ounce or two of
clear
water dripped out. The rudder seems to be structurally sound and
uniformly laminated. It’s not heavy enough to be really soaked.
Is
the core closed cell foam, or balsa? Anyone with previous
experience
have any ideas as to what I should do?

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.18.2/692 - Release Date:
2/18/2007
4:35 PM

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Posted by Lorman, Alvin J. (ajlorman@…>)


Nice to hear from you, Mark, and thanks for sharing your wisdom with us again. Hope all is going well for you at Pearson.

Best,

Al Lorman
F30 Ab Initio

-----Original Message-----From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com [mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark EdwardsSent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 7:38 PMTo: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.comSubject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Water in F-35 rudder

The Freedom 35 rudder is made in a two piece mold. Each skin is glassed and the carbon fiber rudder stock is glassed to one side. When that is set, the mold is closed and two-part expanding closed cell foam is poured in from the top. The top is later sealed. This is a strong and reliable system but does allow for the possibilty the rudder stock to torque the top and allow a little water into the blade where water might find a void or two in the foam. The only concern is if there is a lot of water accumlating, winter freeze-thaw cycles could cause damage but fixing the problem is easy as indicated below by others. Mark Edwards — In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Dave_Benjamin” <dave_benjamin@…> wrote:>> I agree with your surveyor. I was quite surprised to find a very dry > rudder on our 1973 Ranger 33 though. On TPI built Freedoms the > rudderstocks are usually composite and are chemically bonded to the > rudders. The only thing I’ve ever heard of happening to a Freedom > rudder was a guy hitting a submerged object and losing a skin.> > — In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Wales <twales@> > wrote:> >> > My surveyor told me he’s never seen a rudder that didn’t have water > > inside. He suggested to drill a hole in the bottom after hauling > in the > > winter to let it dry out, and filling the hole with epoxy before > launch in > > the spring. The freedom rudders are as well made as the boats, so > he > > wasn’t overly concerned.> > TW F32 Anoush Koon> > > > > > > > At 08:17 PM 2/18/2007 +0000, you wrote:> > > > >I have a 1996 Freedom 35. I pulled the rudder this year to relpace > a> > >warn lower rudder bearing. I’m refinishing the rudder while it’s > out> > >and after sanding, I’m getting water dripping from the top of the> > >rudder. I drilled a small hole in the top and a ounce or two of > clear> > >water dripped out. The rudder seems to be structurally sound and> > >uniformly laminated. It’s not heavy enough to be really soaked. Is> > >the core closed cell foam, or balsa? Anyone with previous > experience> > >have any ideas as to what I should do?> > >> > >> > >> > >No virus found in this incoming message.> > >Checked by AVG Free Edition.> > >Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.18.2/692 - Release Date: > 2/18/2007 > > >4:35 PM> > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message.> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.> > Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.18.2/692 - Release Date: > 2/18/2007 4:35 PM> >>

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Posted by Dave_Benjamin (dave_benjamin@…>)

Mark,

You and I have talked about rudders in the past. I’ve always
appreciated Freedom’s construction in that respect. Can you tell us
if the later Freedoms built by FYI had similar rudder construction? I
remember TPI using an inflatable bladder inside the rudderstock
during layup.

I also remember you telling me about the only known failure of a
Freedom rudder was a 36 or 38 loosing a skin that didn’t even get
noticed until haulout.

Not sure if you followed it but the 39 that went up on Ano Nuevo reef
in the 80’s got recored at some point in the 90’s and I think is
still sailing in SF Bay.

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Mark Edwards”
<markedwards55@…> wrote:

The Freedom 35 rudder is made in a two piece mold. Each skin is
glassed and the carbon fiber rudder stock is glassed to one side.
When that is set, the mold is closed and two-part expanding closed
cell foam is poured in from the top. The top is later sealed.
This
is a strong and reliable system but does allow for the possibilty
the rudder stock to torque the top and allow a little water into
the
blade where water might find a void or two in the foam. The only
concern is if there is a lot of water accumlating, winter freeze-
thaw cycles could cause damage but fixing the problem is easy as
indicated below by others.
Mark Edwards

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Dave_Benjamin”
<dave_benjamin@> wrote:

I agree with your surveyor. I was quite surprised to find a very
dry
rudder on our 1973 Ranger 33 though. On TPI built Freedoms the
rudderstocks are usually composite and are chemically bonded to
the
rudders. The only thing I’ve ever heard of happening to a Freedom
rudder was a guy hitting a submerged object and losing a skin.

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Wales <twales@>
wrote:

My surveyor told me he’s never seen a rudder that didn’t have
water
inside. He suggested to drill a hole in the bottom after
hauling
in the
winter to let it dry out, and filling the hole with epoxy
before
launch in
the spring. The freedom rudders are as well made as the boats,
so
he
wasn’t overly concerned.
TW F32 Anoush Koon

At 08:17 PM 2/18/2007 +0000, you wrote:

I have a 1996 Freedom 35. I pulled the rudder this year to
relpace
a
warn lower rudder bearing. I’m refinishing the rudder while
it’s
out
and after sanding, I’m getting water dripping from the top of
the
rudder. I drilled a small hole in the top and a ounce or two
of
clear
water dripped out. The rudder seems to be structurally sound
and
uniformly laminated. It’s not heavy enough to be really
soaked.
Is
the core closed cell foam, or balsa? Anyone with previous
experience
have any ideas as to what I should do?

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.18.2/692 - Release
Date:
2/18/2007
4:35 PM

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.18.2/692 - Release Date:
2/18/2007 4:35 PM

Posted by Art Kuehne (akuehne@…>)

Thanks for all the helpful information! I drilled another hole in the bottom of the rudder and attached a wet/dry vac until no more water would leak out. I’ve West System’d the holes and plan on a few coats of interprotect 2000 to seal up the whole thing. Thanks again.

Art out

----- Original Message -----
From: Dave_Benjamin
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 2:26 PM
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Water in F-35 rudder


Mark,You and I have talked about rudders in the past. I’ve always appreciated Freedom’s construction in that respect. Can you tell us if the later Freedoms built by FYI had similar rudder construction? I remember TPI using an inflatable bladder inside the rudderstock during layup.I also remember you telling me about the only known failure of a Freedom rudder was a 36 or 38 loosing a skin that didn’t even get noticed until haulout.Not sure if you followed it but the 39 that went up on Ano Nuevo reef in the 80’s got recored at some point in the 90’s and I think is still sailing in SF Bay.— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Mark Edwards” <markedwards55@…> wrote:>> The Freedom 35 rudder is made in a two piece mold. Each skin is > glassed and the carbon fiber rudder stock is glassed to one side. > When that is set, the mold is closed and two-part expanding closed > cell foam is poured in from the top. The top is later sealed. This > is a strong and reliable system but does allow for the possibilty > the rudder stock to torque the top and allow a little water into the > blade where water might find a void or two in the foam. The only > concern is if there is a lot of water accumlating, winter freeze-> thaw cycles could cause damage but fixing the problem is easy as > indicated below by others. > Mark Edwards > > — In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Dave_Benjamin” > <dave_benjamin@> wrote:> >> > I agree with your surveyor. I was quite surprised to find a very > dry > > rudder on our 1973 Ranger 33 though. On TPI built Freedoms the > > rudderstocks are usually composite and are chemically bonded to > the > > rudders. The only thing I’ve ever heard of happening to a Freedom > > rudder was a guy hitting a submerged object and losing a skin.> > > > — In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Wales <twales@> > > wrote:> > >> > > My surveyor told me he’s never seen a rudder that didn’t have > water > > > inside. He suggested to drill a hole in the bottom after > hauling > > in the > > > winter to let it dry out, and filling the hole with epoxy before > > launch in > > > the spring. The freedom rudders are as well made as the boats, > so > > he > > > wasn’t overly concerned.> > > TW F32 Anoush Koon> > > > > > > > > > > > At 08:17 PM 2/18/2007 +0000, you wrote:> > > > > > >I have a 1996 Freedom 35. I pulled the rudder this year to > relpace > > a> > > >warn lower rudder bearing. I’m refinishing the rudder while > it’s > > out> > > >and after sanding, I’m getting water dripping from the top of > the> > > >rudder. I drilled a small hole in the top and a ounce or two of > > clear> > > >water dripped out. The rudder seems to be structurally sound and> > > >uniformly laminated. It’s not heavy enough to be really soaked. > Is> > > >the core closed cell foam, or balsa? Anyone with previous > > experience> > > >have any ideas as to what I should do?> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >No virus found in this incoming message.> > > >Checked by AVG Free Edition.> > > >Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.18.2/692 - Release Date: > > 2/18/2007 > > > >4:35 PM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message.> > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.> > > Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.18.2/692 - Release Date: > > 2/18/2007 4:35 PM> > >> >>

Posted by Larry Kraus (kracherlandl@…>)

Hi all,

I’ve read, with great interest, the F-35 rudder water issues below. I
have an F-32. It’s out in the cold right now in N Wisconsin. I’m having
the bottom redone with new barrier coat. (A few blisters etc) The yard
noticed that there was/is water bleeding out of 2 small holes on the
lead edge of rudder. Their plan is to grind it out, fill and barrier
coat. Is this the same issue you guys are talking about on the F-35?

Larry Kraus





Mark Edwards wrote:


The Freedom 35 rudder is made in a two piece mold. Each skin is
glassed and the carbon fiber rudder stock is glassed to one side.
When that is set, the mold is closed and two-part expanding closed
cell foam is poured in from the top. The top is later sealed. This
is a strong and reliable system but does allow for the possibilty
the rudder stock to torque the top and allow a little water into the
blade where water might find a void or two in the foam. The only
concern is if there is a lot of water accumlating, winter freeze-
thaw cycles could cause damage but fixing the problem is easy as
indicated below by others.
Mark Edwards

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com,
“Dave_Benjamin”
<dave_benjamin@…> wrote:

I agree with your surveyor. I was quite surprised to find a very
dry
rudder on our 1973 Ranger 33 though. On TPI built Freedoms the
rudderstocks are usually composite and are chemically bonded to
the
rudders. The only thing I’ve ever heard of happening to a Freedom
rudder was a guy hitting a submerged object and losing a skin.

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com,
Thomas Wales <twales@>
wrote:

My surveyor told me he’s never seen a rudder that didn’t have

water

inside. He suggested to drill a hole in the bottom after
hauling
in the
winter to let it dry out, and filling the hole with epoxy
before
launch in
the spring. The freedom rudders are as well made as the
boats,
so
he
wasn’t overly concerned.
TW F32 Anoush Koon

At 08:17 PM 2/18/2007 +0000, you wrote:

I have a 1996 Freedom 35. I pulled the rudder this year
to
relpace
a
warn lower rudder bearing. I’m refinishing the rudder
while
it’s
out
and after sanding, I’m getting water dripping from the
top of
the
rudder. I drilled a small hole in the top and a ounce or
two of
clear
water dripped out. The rudder seems to be structurally
sound and
uniformly laminated. It’s not heavy enough to be really
soaked.
Is
the core closed cell foam, or balsa? Anyone with previous

experience

have any ideas as to what I should do?

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.18.2/692 - Release
Date:
2/18/2007
4:35 PM

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.18.2/692 - Release
Date:
2/18/2007 4:35 PM




\

Posted by Art Kuehne (akuehne@…>)

Hi Larry,

It sounds like that same issue I had with my F-35 rudder. I have received similar suggestions for removing the water and they all involve drilling two or more holes in the top and bottom. A shop vac can be applied to pull out the water. Temperature change seems to drive the water out of mine. I have it stored in a workshop with a small woodstove. When I heat up the shed, the rudder drips. With stable temperature, I get little or no water. The two small holes you described are likely just where the water happens to be leaking out. Good luck.

Art

----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Kraus
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 10:39 AM
Subject: Re: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Water in F-35 rudder


Hi all,I’ve read, with great interest, the F-35 rudder water issues below. I have an F-32. It’s out in the cold right now in N Wisconsin. I’m having the bottom redone with new barrier coat. (A few blisters etc) The yard noticed that there was/is water bleeding out of 2 small holes on the lead edge of rudder. Their plan is to grind it out, fill and barrier coat. Is this the same issue you guys are talking about on the F-35?Larry KrausMark Edwards wrote:

The Freedom 35 rudder is made in a two piece mold. Each skin is glassed and the carbon fiber rudder stock is glassed to one side. When that is set, the mold is closed and two-part expanding closed cell foam is poured in from the top. The top is later sealed. This is a strong and reliable system but does allow for the possibilty the rudder stock to torque the top and allow a little water into the blade where water might find a void or two in the foam. The only concern is if there is a lot of water accumlating, winter freeze-thaw cycles could cause damage but fixing the problem is easy as indicated below by others. Mark Edwards — In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Dave_Benjamin” <dave_benjamin@…> wrote:>> I agree with your surveyor. I was quite surprised to find a very dry > rudder on our 1973 Ranger 33 though. On TPI built Freedoms the > rudderstocks are usually composite and are chemically bonded to the > rudders. The only thing I’ve ever heard of happening to a Freedom > rudder was a guy hitting a submerged object and losing a skin.> > — In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Wales <twales@> > wrote:> >> > My surveyor told me he’s never seen a rudder that didn’t have water > > inside. He suggested to drill a hole in the bottom after hauling > in the > > winter to let it dry out, and filling the hole with epoxy before > launch in > > the spring. The freedom rudders are as well made as the boats, so > he > > wasn’t overly concerned.> > TW F32 Anoush Koon> > > > > > > > At 08:17 PM 2/18/2007 +0000, you wrote:> > > > >I have a 1996 Freedom 35. I pulled the rudder this year to relpace > a> > >warn lower rudder bearing. I’m refinishing the rudder while it’s > out> > >and after sanding, I’m getting water dripping from the top of the> > >rudder. I drilled a small hole in the top and a ounce or two of > clear> > >water dripped out. The rudder seems to be structurally sound and> > >uniformly laminated. It’s not heavy enough to be really soaked. Is> > >the core closed cell foam, or balsa? Anyone with previous > experience> > >have any ideas as to what I should do?> > >> > >> > >> > >No virus found in this incoming message.> > >Checked by AVG Free Edition.> > >Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.18.2/692 - Release Date: > 2/18/2007 > > >4:35 PM> > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message.> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.> > Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.18.2/692 - Release Date: > 2/18/2007 4:35 PM> >>

Posted by Larry Kraus (kracherlandl@…>)

Hi Art,

Thanks for the reply. Question: Why is water in the rudder less
alarming than in the hull? Is the rudder supposed to be solid as
opposed to the cored hull? Water inside the cored hull would be a
disaster, right? What do you think of my yard’s plan to grind out the
wet spot and build it back up? From the sounds of the responses below,
one approach is to drill a hole in the bottom and let the water out.
But that, to me, doesn’t address the problem of water entry. Further,
it seems that with that approach, you’d drill a hole each fall and
epoxy it shut each spring. I’m not criticizing, just wondering.

Also, do you remove your rudder each year?

LK

Art Kuehne wrote:



Hi Larry,

It sounds like that same issue I had
with my F-35 rudder. I have received similar suggestions for removing
the water and they all involve drilling two or more holes in the top
and bottom. A shop vac can be applied to pull out the water.
Temperature change seems to drive the water out of mine. I have it
stored in a workshop with a small woodstove. When I heat up the shed,
the rudder drips. With stable temperature, I get little or no water.
The two small holes you described are likely just where the water
happens to be leaking out. Good luck.

Art


Original Message -----
From:
Larry Kraus
To:
freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com

Sent:
Tuesday, February 27, 2007 10:39 AM
Subject:
Re: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Water in F-35 rudder



Hi all,

I’ve read, with great interest, the F-35 rudder water issues below. I
have an F-32. It’s out in the cold right now in N Wisconsin. I’m having
the bottom redone with new barrier coat. (A few blisters etc) The yard
noticed that there was/is water bleeding out of 2 small holes on the
lead edge of rudder. Their plan is to grind it out, fill and barrier
coat. Is this the same issue you guys are talking about on the F-35?

Larry Kraus





Mark Edwards wrote:


The Freedom 35 rudder is made in a two piece mold. Each skin
is
glassed and the carbon fiber rudder stock is glassed to one side.
When that is set, the mold is closed and two-part expanding closed
cell foam is poured in from the top. The top is later sealed. This
is a strong and reliable system but does allow for the possibilty
the rudder stock to torque the top and allow a little water into the
blade where water might find a void or two in the foam. The only
concern is if there is a lot of water accumlating, winter freeze-
thaw cycles could cause damage but fixing the problem is easy as
indicated below by others.
Mark Edwards

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com,
“Dave_Benjamin”
<dave_benjamin@…> wrote:

I agree with your surveyor. I was quite surprised to find a very
dry
rudder on our 1973 Ranger 33 though. On TPI built Freedoms the
rudderstocks are usually composite and are chemically bonded to
the
rudders. The only thing I’ve ever heard of happening to a Freedom
rudder was a guy hitting a submerged object and losing a skin.

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com,
Thomas Wales <twales@>
wrote:

My surveyor told me he’s never seen a rudder that didn’t have

water

inside. He suggested to drill a hole in the bottom after
hauling
in the
winter to let it dry out, and filling the hole with epoxy
before
launch in
the spring. The freedom rudders are as well made as the
boats,
so
he
wasn’t overly concerned.
TW F32 Anoush Koon

At 08:17 PM 2/18/2007 +0000, you wrote:

I have a 1996 Freedom 35. I pulled the rudder this year
to
relpace
a
warn lower rudder bearing. I’m refinishing the rudder
while
it’s
out
and after sanding, I’m getting water dripping from the
top of
the
rudder. I drilled a small hole in the top and a ounce or
two of
clear
water dripped out. The rudder seems to be structurally
sound and
uniformly laminated. It’s not heavy enough to be really
soaked.
Is
the core closed cell foam, or balsa? Anyone with previous

experience

have any ideas as to what I should do?

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4:35 PM

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\

Posted by Dave_Benjamin (dave_benjamin@…>)

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, Larry Kraus
<kracherlandl@…> wrote:

Hi Art,

Water migration into the balsa core of the hull is a big deal. That
core is there for strength and lightness. It will be neither if
compromised by water. Your rudder is probably foam inside. Water
can’t really hurt it however if left unchecked it could be a problem
while hauled out in cold weather. the rudder gets it strength from
the beefy stock and the chemical bond of the composite to the rudder.
The rudder isn’t going to fall apart if it has water inside. Water in
the rudder is quite common on a number of boats. It’s more of
frustration than a structural compromise.

Thanks for the reply. Question: Why is water in the rudder less
alarming
than in the hull? Is the rudder supposed to be solid as opposed to
the
cored hull? Water inside the cored hull would be a disaster,
right?
What do you think of my yard’s plan to grind out the wet spot and
build
it back up? From the sounds of the responses below, one approach is
to
drill a hole in the bottom and let the water out. But that, to me,
doesn’t address the problem of water entry. Further, it seems that
with
that approach, you’d drill a hole each fall and epoxy it shut each
spring. I’m not criticizing, just wondering.

Also, do you remove your rudder each year?

LK

Posted by Art Kuehne (akuehne@…>)

LK,

I concur that water in the hull is very bad given balsa wood turns to mush and soon you have a potato chip for a hull. The F-35 rudder is completely composite including the carbon fiber rudder stock. I’m not familiar with the makeup of the F-32 rudder, so i can’t help you there. I would certainly recommend getting as much water out of it as possible, but I would not tear it apart in that endeavour. If the rudder had a stainless steel stock, the situation would be much worse as stainless will corrode over time in the presence of water and lack of oxygen. My approach is to get as much water out as I can and prevent additional water intrusion by coating the entire rudder (top and stock as well) with 5 coats of Interprotect 2000.

You can grind down the area where the water is weeping out, but I’m unsure as to what that will do for water that may be in other areas of the rudder. I believe that water typically gets in around the stock and migrates to various voids left after the two halves of the rudder are bonded together. It leaves by any convenient pin hole or if you sand down to the bare fiberglass. I would certainly recommed that you find out what materials and processes are used to build an F-32 rudder and that should tell you how aggressively you need to approach drying it out.

I pulled the rudder this year to replace a worn out lower bearing. If I hadn’t removed it, I doubt that I would have ever detected the water. I don’t plan on pulling it again, and hopefully I won’t ever have to!

Best of luck!!

Art

----- Original Message -----
From: Dave_Benjamin
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 4:00 PM
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Water in F-35 rudder


— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, Larry Kraus <kracherlandl@…> wrote:>> Hi Art,> Water migration into the balsa core of the hull is a big deal. That core is there for strength and lightness. It will be neither if compromised by water. Your rudder is probably foam inside. Water can’t really hurt it however if left unchecked it could be a problem while hauled out in cold weather. the rudder gets it strength from the beefy stock and the chemical bond of the composite to the rudder. The rudder isn’t going to fall apart if it has water inside. Water in the rudder is quite common on a number of boats. It’s more of frustration than a structural compromise.> Thanks for the reply. Question: Why is water in the rudder less alarming > than in the hull? Is the rudder supposed to be solid as opposed to the > cored hull? Water inside the cored hull would be a disaster, right? > What do you think of my yard’s plan to grind out the wet spot and build > it back up? From the sounds of the responses below, one approach is to > drill a hole in the bottom and let the water out. But that, to me, > doesn’t address the problem of water entry. Further, it seems that with > that approach, you’d drill a hole each fall and epoxy it shut each > spring. I’m not criticizing, just wondering.> > Also, do you remove your rudder each year?> > LK