Posted by marno_ss (marno@…>)
Has anyone seen this system before? Another freestanding mast design.
http://www.omerwingsail.com/
It looks strange and a little complicated, but makes sense too.
I would be a little concerned about the extra weight up top, and how
would it affect the balance on a ketch? I don’t think we will see too
many of these soon though.
Posted by Jay Glen (svfantasy@…>)
It actually looks pretty cool. However, for serious long distance cruising it looks much too complicated, too many parts to fail etc. Jay Glens/v Fantasy Freedom 40 CKOn 7/27/07, marno_ss <marno@…> wrote:
Has anyone seen this system before? Another freestanding mast design.
http://www.omerwingsail.com/
It looks strange and a little complicated, but makes sense too.
I would be a little concerned about the extra weight up top, and how
would it affect the balance on a ketch? I don’t think we will see too
many of these soon though.
– Jay Glen ki6jtks/v FantasyFreedom 40 Cat-KetchSan Francisco Bay Area
Posted by Peter Schaefer (pcschaefer@…>)
Marno,
IMHO a round rotating mast makes not much sense and is technical
overkill. You can have the same effect with a fixed round mast where you
let the wingsail rotate around the mast and control the sail camber by
the outhaul. Or you take a rotating wingmast with a fully battened
single ply sail like Eric Sponbergs did on WOBEGON DAZE.
The third solution would be a combination of a pre-balanced streamlined
sailwing rotating around a fixed round mast with an appendix of a fully
battened single ply sail. The sailwing at the luff should be approx 30%
of the total sail. This is what I would prefer.
Greetings,
Peter
marno_ss wrote:
Has anyone seen this system before? Another freestanding mast design.
http://www.omerwingsail.com/ http://www.omerwingsail.com/
It looks strange and a little complicated, but makes sense too.
I would be a little concerned about the extra weight up top, and how
would it affect the balance on a ketch? I don’t think we will see too
many of these soon though.
Posted by katorpus (jrb@…>)
I’m with y’all on the “overly complex” part of this. If any part of
this gave way in a good blow, you’d have a real “train wreck” (plane
crash?)
It seems like to me you’d have to re-engineer the entire boat…deck
and all…to handle the forces of a rotating mast with connection
points “only” consisting of a mast base “ball” and a deck level
bearing…the forces are a heck of a lot greater than those on
the “little boats” with rotating masts.
All those “mini-spreaders” are applying an exceedingly variable
twisting torque on the external tracks that they ride up and down on.
This is not consistent with the forces that a freestanding mast is
designed to take (with more “normal” sails).
Nevermind that the built-in “flex” inherent in a tapered carbon fiber
(or freestanding aluminum) mast would seem to be counterproductive to
this entire concept…
I doubt that you could even do a retrofit using an existing Freedom
mast.
The polars sure look good though (in comparison to standard sails on
the same boat).
— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, Peter Schaefer
<pcschaefer@…> wrote:
Marno,
IMHO a round rotating mast makes not much sense and is technical
overkill. You can have the same effect with a fixed round mast
where you
let the wingsail rotate around the mast and control the sail camber
by
the outhaul. Or you take a rotating wingmast with a fully battened
single ply sail like Eric Sponbergs did on WOBEGON DAZE.
The third solution would be a combination of a pre-balanced
streamlined
sailwing rotating around a fixed round mast with an appendix of a
fully
battened single ply sail. The sailwing at the luff should be approx
30%
of the total sail. This is what I would prefer.
Greetings,
Petermarno_ss wrote:
Has anyone seen this system before? Another freestanding mast
design.
http://www.omerwingsail.com/ http://www.omerwingsail.com/
It looks strange and a little complicated, but makes sense too.
I would be a little concerned about the extra weight up top, and how
would it affect the balance on a ketch? I don’t think we will see
too
many of these soon though.
Posted by michel.capel (michel.capel@…>)
At first sight it looks like a Chinese junk sail, but without all the
strings attached. But a rotating mast and minispreaders…why? A junk
rig is very suitable for cat ketches, schooners and three masted
versions of these. Bill King’s Galway Blazer was a junk rigged schooner.
— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “marno_ss” <marno@…> wrote:
Has anyone seen this system before? Another freestanding mast design.
http://www.omerwingsail.com/
It looks strange and a little complicated, but makes sense too.
I would be a little concerned about the extra weight up top, and how
would it affect the balance on a ketch? I don’t think we will see
too
many of these soon though.
Posted by lance_ryley (lance_ryley@…>)
I thought I’d go to the ‘horses mouth’ on this one, so I wrote to the
designer and asked him some questions about stability, choppy seas,
robustness of the design, etc. I received a reply which I’m quoting
in its entirety, so please don’t shoot the messenger. It seems that
we are still in the prototyping phase with more developments to come.
Regardless of the ultimate outcome of this rig, I think at the very
least we can agree that Ilan is Hoyt-like in developing ideas and
testing conventional sailing wisdom. I wish him luck in coming up
with a usable (cost effective) rig. Frankly, I like the way this
looks quite a bit more aesthetically than the Aero-rigs I’ve seen
thus far.
Lance
Glory
"Thanks for your interest in Omer wing sail.
I can understand why my design is causing some conversations among
Freedom owners.
I think that Freedom designers did more than half way towards the
solution that to my mind is the better one.
Since wings performance is much better than sails, I went a bit
longer way in this direction and designed a wing on a free standing
rotating rig.
Your question of rig stability in choppy seas is a very good
question. Free standing rig has usually the phenomena of mast top
whipping when the boat is bumping in choppy sea (there is no problem
in mast bending to port and starboard).
The only solution I know at the moment is a stiffer mast and I am
trying now to find out the right balance between mast flexibility and
stiffness (and since my current mast is too flexible, I ordered a new
stiffer one that I am going to get within two months).
The mast is made of carbon fiber. It goes through deck and has a ball
at mast foot. Attached to the keel there is a kind of “bowl” and mast
bottom ball rotates in it. Also, at deck level, there is a roll
bearing that eliminates friction while rotating.
I tested the rig in winds up to 30 knots and there were no problems
but this mast flexibility.
Best regards
Ilan Gonen"
— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “marno_ss” <marno@…>
wrote:
Has anyone seen this system before? Another freestanding mast
design.
http://www.omerwingsail.com/
It looks strange and a little complicated, but makes sense too.
I would be a little concerned about the extra weight up top, and
how
would it affect the balance on a ketch? I don’t think we will see
too
many of these soon though.
Posted by michel.capel (michel.capel@…>)
Here in the neighourhood in Zaandam there’s a bare aluminum 100
footer with a single freedstanding stick and an aerorig boom made
webbed like a construction crane. Yacht and slightly pre-bent mast
are nice, but this boom construction doesn’t look good. Good for
raising high rise buildings though. It has the radar antenna on the
front end of the aerorig boom. I wonder if they get a decent radar
bearing when under sail.
Michel
— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “lance_ryley”
<lance_ryley@…> wrote:
I thought I’d go to the ‘horses mouth’ on this one, so I wrote to
the
designer and asked him some questions about stability, choppy seas,
robustness of the design, etc. I received a reply which I’m quoting
in its entirety, so please don’t shoot the messenger. It seems that
we are still in the prototyping phase with more developments to
come.Regardless of the ultimate outcome of this rig, I think at the very
least we can agree that Ilan is Hoyt-like in developing ideas and
testing conventional sailing wisdom. I wish him luck in coming up
with a usable (cost effective) rig. Frankly, I like the way this
looks quite a bit more aesthetically than the Aero-rigs I’ve seen
thus far.Lance
Glory"Thanks for your interest in Omer wing sail.
I can understand why my design is causing some conversations among
Freedom owners.
I think that Freedom designers did more than half way towards the
solution that to my mind is the better one.
Since wings performance is much better than sails, I went a bit
longer way in this direction and designed a wing on a free standing
rotating rig.Your question of rig stability in choppy seas is a very good
question. Free standing rig has usually the phenomena of mast top
whipping when the boat is bumping in choppy sea (there is no
problem
in mast bending to port and starboard).
The only solution I know at the moment is a stiffer mast and I am
trying now to find out the right balance between mast flexibility
and
stiffness (and since my current mast is too flexible, I ordered a
new
stiffer one that I am going to get within two months).The mast is made of carbon fiber. It goes through deck and has a
ball
at mast foot. Attached to the keel there is a kind of “bowl” and
mast
bottom ball rotates in it. Also, at deck level, there is a roll
bearing that eliminates friction while rotating.I tested the rig in winds up to 30 knots and there were no problems
but this mast flexibility.Best regards
Ilan Gonen"
— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “marno_ss” <marno@>
wrote:Has anyone seen this system before? Another freestanding mast
design.
http://www.omerwingsail.com/
It looks strange and a little complicated, but makes sense too.
I would be a little concerned about the extra weight up top, and
how
would it affect the balance on a ketch? I don’t think we will
see
too
many of these soon though.