Posted by Fargo Rousseau (fargo_r@…>)
All of us are practically in tears (and grabbing our wallets) as we
read your fuel tank stories. I have been hoping to see a “been there,
done this” solution. None has popped up…but you are giving yourself
time (with your day-tank idea) to let the story fan out. Maybe someone
will come back eventually with the $250 fix…one that has proven
itself through years of sea work. One of the beautiful thing
about a Freedom, older or newer, is that they have great hull
construction. So I am doubly upset to see you cutting big holes
through this great hull on your F40 to solve your problem. Secondary
bonds on glass work are never the same as the original…even if it can
be made to look smooth and fair.Two thoughts come to mind…one crazy…one proven.Proven idea, first: Conversion: My
first bigger boat was a Hinckley…which in the old days came with
soldered monel tanks. Sometime in the mid/late sixties a big fire
swept through a Connecticut boat yard in the middle of winter and the
whole inventory of millions of dollars of boats was incinerated. The
fuel in the boat tanks was not blamed for the original fire…but many
of the soldered tanks broke open from the heat and added much fuel to
the fire. So, they were “outlawed” and my boat had them. Rather than
pull the whole boat apart to get them out, I converted them to water
tanks. You might be able to get access over or under the one proven
pin hole area and epoxy the hell out of the inside or outside of this
part of the tank…and call it a water tank henceforth. Alternative
fix, If you could get a small right angle drill under the area…or a
drill into the tank from above, you could drill out the pin hole areas
of the tank, then tap and glue in some aluminum screws (of the right
alloy). New fuel tank(s) would be installed elsewhere.Crazy thought second.
First, I presume that your hole (and future potential holes) are in the
bottom sump area of the tank…the area where separated water
settles. Corrosion spots might also be found in a few areas around the
baffles if there are some poorly drained areas that have trapped water
there in the past. In any event…I feel sure that the holes will all
develop in the lowest parts of the tank. So…what if you could clean
the inside of the tank very very well…steam clean, then solvent wash,
etc, etc…these areas…creating a good solid bonding surface. Here
comes the crazy part… you pour in a nice gallon, more or less, of
the right kind of epoxy (one that is both fuel resistant and sticks
like hell to aluminum). This stuff will settle into the same areas
that have been damaged in the past by electrolysis? and seal them
over. Maybe this makes reliable a fuel tank…or just a water
tank??? FargoEx F30 #12— On Fri, 8/1/08, Jay Glen <svfantasy@…> wrote:From: Jay Glen <svfantasy@…>Subject: Re: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Re: Fuel tank leak F-40 aft cockpitTo: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.comDate: Friday, August 1, 2008, 11:44 AM
On my 1981 F-40 Aft-Cockpit the only access to the fuel tank is below the galley sink through an opening about 1 square foot, and through the bottom of the storage bin starboard of the galley sink where the fill and vent hoses connect to the tank. This area is small also. Under the dinette settee just forward of the galley sink counter is no access without cutting through the molded in fiberglass pan which comprises the seat around the settee. There is no removable plywood panel to get to the tank which extends under this seat and all the way to the starboard hull. I thought about cutting the tank out piece by piece, however, the tank is bonded to the starboard hull with fiberglass tabbing ( I can see that) and I don’t know if there is further tabbing in the places I cannot see. I might be able to cut away a small portion at the access under the sink, but there is no way to move beyond that area to cut further. The tank
measures about 4.5 feet fore & aft by about 5 .5 feet from centerline to stbd hull. The other option is to cut away the entire molded fiberglass galley countertop including sink area and aft portion of the dinette settee, remove the tank by cutting etc, then, replace the galley counter section and either re-bond into place and add trim to hide the cut, or, mechanically re-attach it for future access.
It is very common to remove large tanks through the side of the hull (below the waterline), but the yard bill is not cheap. For now, I’m going to go with a day tank in the lazarette until I decide on a permanent fix.
Thanks for your suggestions Michel.On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 2:24 AM, michel.capel <michel.capel@ yahoo.com> wrote:
Jay,
You’re probably right about one leak means more possible leaks. I’ve
been thinking about your horrorstory about having to cut a hole in
the hull to replace the tank. It can’t be true that this is the only
way to replace a tank! Many other boats will have to have tanks added
or replaced without cutting large holes in the side. I would think
the current tank can be sawn to pieces with a small angle grinder. On
my boat, part of the tank top can be accessed by removing the plywood
top sheet of the settee forward of the galley. Working from there,
the tank can be cut to pieces that fit the top of the settee. You
wouldn’t have to ruin any other joinery work.
Perhaps a new tank could be made in situ by welding PE sheets? Or
several smaller tanks could be installed in place of the single large
one?
Another question I have is: how do these pinholes develop? Water in
the diesel? Other additives in the diesel?
— In FreedomOwnersGroup@ yahoogroups. com, “Jay Glen” <svfantasy@… .>
wrote:
Thanks, Alan, Michel and Herm for your suggestions. I thought about
using
some kind of patch over the pin hole, however, I’m very nervous
doing so.
When aluminum tanks start developing pin hole leaks it is very
likely more
leaks (maybe a lot more serious and destructive) will soon develop.
So, I’ll
probably just isolate the tank and install a small Day Tank in a
convenient
location. I’ll save the replacement of the original tank for
another day.
Thanks again everyone.
On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 2:40 PM, michel.capel <michel.capel@ …>
wrote:
Hello Jay,
I have more or less the same setup in the F44, minus the grp-
liner. I
wondered where the pickup tube would be. Another repair option
might
be hard soldering, if you can get to the spot and if you can find
a
way to get rid of the fire hazard.
michel
— In FreedomOwnersGroup@ yahoogroups. com<FreedomOwnersGroup%
40yahoogroups. com>,
“Jay Glen” <svfantasy@>
wrote:
Hello everyone,
I live aboard Fantasy, my 1981 F-40 Cat-Ketch, aft-cockpit, and
woke
up yesterday with fuel dripping into my bilge. At the bottom of
the
inboard end of the fuel tank is a sump into which the draw tube
and
return tubes extend. The bottom of this fuel sump has a pin hole
leak
dripping right into bilge where the bilge pump is located. I
cleaned
up the 3 or 4 cups that had accumulated and called Marinelube
who
responded and off-loaded my 95 gals of diesel fuel.
As other F-40 owners will know Freedom Yachts put the interior
fiberglass liner in the hull over the fuel tank (which is
located
under the Galley counter and starboard settee. The only way to
remove
it would be to destroy the fine joinery and fiberglass
counter/settee
base, or, haul-out and cut a hole in the side of the hull to
remove
the tank through. This is a common method on many vessels with
the
same problem. The tank does sit below the waterline so at least
the
patch job would not be visible.
Any other F-40 Aft cockpit owners gone through a similar leak in
this
fuel tank? It is an aluminum tank, and it is the original tank.
Now
I
have just cleaned all the remaining fuel out and I’m thinking
about
trying to locate a much smaller “Day” tank somewhere else in the
boat.
This will allow me to still use the boat until I figure a way to
replace the bad 106 gal leaking tank.
Any suggestions?
–
Jay Glen ki6jtk
s/v Fantasy
Freedom 40 Cat-Ketch
San Francisco Bay Area
– Jay Glen ki6jtks/v FantasyFreedom 40 Cat-KetchSan Francisco Bay Area