Posted by Lola Jackson (lolaltd@…>)
Hey Bob, Have you tried this plastic wrap on the head hoses? It seems something even I can do. How long will it last before the smells come back? Will I also wrap my black hoses too? My smell in the hoses are not real bad, but I can smell it from time to time. I mostly can smell it when I open the cabinets in and around the headI am really enjoying the boat condo, and have fellow sailors who will take it out with me…I need to bolt the college refrigerator. All of the decor and microwave will go in plastic keepers and put in the berths. Having driven in RV’s for 15 years, I know the meaning of buttoning down the hatches.Thank you all for advice and comments. What a wealth of information on this site.Lola …another beautiful F30
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
Posted by amarsib@… (amarsib@…)
I am now thinking of replacing the head hoses with pvc, am not sure how long
the plastic wrap will last.
F36/38
-----Original Message-----
From: Lola Jackson <lolaltd@…>
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 08:18:31
To:Freedom group <FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Head Hoses in plastic wrap
Hey Bob, Have you tried this plastic wrap on the head hoses? It seems
something even I can do. How long will it last before the smells come back?
Will I also wrap my black hoses too? My smell in the hoses are not real bad,
but I can smell it from time to time. I mostly can smell it when I open the
cabinets in and around the head
I am really enjoying the boat condo, and have fellow sailors who will take it
out with me…I need to bolt the college refrigerator. All of the decor and
microwave will go in plastic keepers and put in the berths. Having driven in
RV’s for 15 years, I know the meaning of buttoning down the hatches.
Thank you all for advice and comments. What a wealth of information on this
site.
Lola …another beautiful F30
\
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtD\
ypao8Wcj9tAcJ >
Posted by Bob (rweeks6508@…>)
Not sure how long the plastic wrap will work either…that is a stop gap measure
but I have read about elsewhere. The real value here is converting to PVC
piping with short pieces of hose sections for vibration issues. As in our homes
the plastic pipes dont leach the smell but you still have to contend with proper
care for the holding tank and pump area of the head. As Al mentioned earlier
you also need to provide a locking method to satisfy the USCG rules, mine has a
lock hasp on the overboard value (I have one also on the Y value) so I am good
in that area.
Bob
Posted by Al Lorman (ajl@…>)
If you are looking for a stop gap, try either adhesive aluminum or stainless
steel tape. They are impervious to odor permeation.
Al
.
Law Office of
Alvin J. Lorman
1629 K Street, NW, Suite 300
Washington, DC 20006
Tel/Fax: 202.263.1100
Cell: 202.236.2359
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob <rweeks6508@…>
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 15:52:06
To:FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Re: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Head Hoses in plastic wrap
Not sure how long the plastic wrap will work either…that is a stop gap measure
but I have read about elsewhere. The real value here is converting to PVC piping
with short pieces of hose sections for vibration issues. As in our homes the
plastic pipes dont leach the smell but you still have to contend with proper
care for the holding tank and pump area of the head. As Al mentioned earlier you
also need to provide a locking method to satisfy the USCG rules, mine has a lock
hasp on the overboard value (I have one also on the Y value) so I am good in
that area.
Bob
Posted by amarsib@… (amarsib@…)
Thanks
-----Original Message-----
From: “Al Lorman” <ajl@…>
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:52:29
To:FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Re: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Head Hoses in plastic wrap
If you are looking for a stop gap, try either adhesive aluminum or stainless
steel tape. They are impervious to odor permeation.
Al
.
Law Office of
Alvin J. Lorman
1629 K Street, NW, Suite 300
Washington, DC 20006
Tel/Fax: 202.263.1100
Cell: 202.236.2359
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob <rweeks6508@verizon. mailto:rweeks6508%40verizon.net net>
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 15:52:06
To:FreedomOwnersGroup@ mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup%40yahoogroups.com
yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Re: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Head Hoses in plastic wrap
Not sure how long the plastic wrap will work either…that is a stop gap
measure but I have read about elsewhere. The real value here is converting to
PVC piping with short pieces of hose sections for vibration issues. As in our
homes the plastic pipes dont leach the smell but you still have to contend with
proper care for the holding tank and pump area of the head. As Al mentioned
earlier you also need to provide a locking method to satisfy the USCG rules,
mine has a lock hasp on the overboard value (I have one also on the Y value) so
I am good in that area.
Bob
Posted by lance_ryley (lance_ryley@…>)
I’d recommend against a stopgap like wrapping the hoses. If you wipe
a hose with a wet rag and it comes away smelling like sewage, even a
little, the hose needs to be replaced. I know of boats that have used
solid pvc, but most experts recommend against this unless you have a
long straight run and you use flexible hose at the bends (as opposed
to gluing elbows - apparently, the vibration of boats can cause glued
joints to fail, not something you want happening in this particular
system). Also, based on my experiences with Bright Star, I would
ditch any black ‘sanitation’ hose you have at your earliest
opportunity. for the most part, this is wire-reinforced hose, it
permeates pretty easily, and the wire will eventually rust through
the hose.
I’m not a big fan of the company Dometic for personal reasons;
however, they do make the best sanitation hose in the business. It’s
not cheap - last time I bought it it was around $8/ft (sold as
Sealand OdorSafe) - but it is without a doubt the best hose you can
buy for sanitation systems. You can cut it with a razorblade, and the
key is to soak the end in the hottest water you can stand for about
30 seconds before slipping it on to a fitting, and double-clamp every
ending.
Peggy Hall (the Head Mistress) also recommends figuring out where
your low spots in the hoses are and whenever possible making sure you
eliminate ‘traps’ in the hoses.
Lastly, I’ve mentioned the product before, but KO from Raritan is an
excellent odor control product, is environmentally safe, contains no
formaldehyde, and smells faintly like cherries.
Lance
Glory
— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, Lola Jackson <lolaltd@…>
wrote:
Hey Bob, Have you tried this plastic wrap on the head hoses? It
seems something even I can do. How long will it last before the
smells come back? Will I also wrap my black hoses too? My smell in
the hoses are not real bad, but I can smell it from time to time. I
mostly can smell it when I open the cabinets in and around the headI am really enjoying the boat condo, and have fellow sailors who
will take it out with me…I need to bolt the college refrigerator.
All of the decor and microwave will go in plastic keepers and put in
the berths. Having driven in RV’s for 15 years, I know the meaning of
buttoning down the hatches.Thank you all for advice and comments. What a wealth of
information on this site.
Lola …another beautiful F30
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.
Try it now.
Posted by george huffman (thatboatguy2@…>)
A very good summing up Lance. Georgelance_ryley <lance_ryley@…> wrote: I’d recommend against a stopgap like wrapping the hoses. If you wipe a hose with a wet rag and it comes away smelling like sewage, even a little, the hose needs to be replaced. I know of boats that have used solid pvc, but most experts recommend against this unless you have a long straight run and you use flexible hose at the bends (as opposed to gluing elbows - apparently, the vibration of boats can cause glued joints to fail,
not something you want happening in this particular system). Also, based on my experiences with Bright Star, I would ditch any black ‘sanitation’ hose you have at your earliest opportunity. for the most part, this is wire-reinforced hose, it permeates pretty easily, and the wire will eventually rust through the hose. I’m not a big fan of the company Dometic for personal reasons; however, they do make the best sanitation hose in the business. It’s not cheap - last time I bought it it was around $8/ft (sold as Sealand OdorSafe) - but it is without a doubt the best hose you can buy for sanitation systems. You can cut it with a razorblade, and the key is to soak the end in the hottest water you can stand for about 30 seconds before slipping it on to a fitting, and double-clamp every ending. Peggy Hall (the Head Mistress) also recommends figuring out where your low spots in the hoses are and
whenever possible making sure you eliminate ‘traps’ in the hoses. Lastly, I’ve mentioned the product before, but KO from Raritan is an excellent odor control product, is environmentally safe, contains no formaldehyde, and smells faintly like cherries. Lance Glory — In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, Lola Jackson <lolaltd@…> wrote: > > Hey Bob, Have you tried this plastic wrap on the head hoses? It seems something even I can do. How long will it last before the smells come back? Will I also wrap my black hoses too? My smell in the hoses are not real bad, but I can smell it from time to time. I mostly can smell it when I open the cabinets in and around the head > > I am really enjoying the boat condo, and have fellow sailors who will take it out with me…I need to bolt the college
refrigerator. All of the decor and microwave will go in plastic keepers and put in the berths. Having driven in RV’s for 15 years, I know the meaning of buttoning down the hatches. > > Thank you all for advice and comments. What a wealth of information on this site. > Lola …another beautiful F30 > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. >
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
Posted by Bob Weeks (rweeks6508@…>)
There must be a way to over come the vibrations (sounds like you guys have your motor on all the time I thought we were sailors only motorboaters should have vibration problems) problem if the ABYC has approved this for their standards. I thought I read the the PVC has to be anchored to the hull (?) inconjunction with the hose pieces to prevent vibrations from doing any great damage. I think its a workable solution at 1/3 of the cost. It cost me over $150 just in hose (@$8.xx/ft) to reinstall the system in my F30 plus the $75 y value. And I would bet the PVC would outlast the hose by two fold. Only an opinion!
Bob
From: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of lance_ryleySent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 1:29 PMTo: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.comSubject: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Re: Head Hoses in plastic wrap
I’d recommend against a stopgap like wrapping the hoses. If you wipe a hose with a wet rag and it comes away smelling like sewage, even a little, the hose needs to be replaced. I know of boats that have used solid pvc, but most experts recommend against this unless you have a long straight run and you use flexible hose at the bends (as opposed to gluing elbows - apparently, the vibration of boats can cause glued joints to fail, not something you want happening in this particular system). Also, based on my experiences with Bright Star, I would ditch any black ‘sanitation’ hose you have at your earliest opportunity. for the most part, this is wire-reinforced hose, it permeates pretty easily, and the wire will eventually rust through the hose.I’m not a big fan of the company Dometic for personal reasons; however, they do make the best sanitation hose in the business. It’s not cheap - last time I bought it it was around $8/ft (sold as Sealand OdorSafe) - but it is without a doubt the best hose you can buy for sanitation systems. You can cut it with a razorblade, and the key is to soak the end in the hottest water you can stand for about 30 seconds before slipping it on to a fitting, and double-clamp every ending. Peggy Hall (the Head Mistress) also recommends figuring out where your low spots in the hoses are and whenever possible making sure you eliminate ‘traps’ in the hoses.Lastly, I’ve mentioned the product before, but KO from Raritan is an excellent odor control product, is environmentally safe, contains no formaldehyde, and smells faintly like cherries.LanceGlory— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, Lola Jackson <lolaltd@…> wrote:>> Hey Bob, Have you tried this plastic wrap on the head hoses? It seems something even I can do. How long will it last before the smells come back? Will I also wrap my black hoses too? My smell in the hoses are not real bad, but I can smell it from time to time. I mostly can smell it when I open the cabinets in and around the head> > I am really enjoying the boat condo, and have fellow sailors who will take it out with me…I need to bolt the college refrigerator. All of the decor and microwave will go in plastic keepers and put in the berths. Having driven in RV’s for 15 years, I know the meaning of buttoning down the hatches.> > Thank you all for advice and comments. What a wealth of information on this site.> Lola …another beautiful F30> > > ---------------------------------> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.>
Posted by lance_ryley (lance_ryley@…>)
Sorry Bob, I should have been more specific. Any pounding,
shuddering, vibration, whether it comes from the rhythmic thrum of
the engine or a constant pounding into heavy seas could be a source
of joint failure, if you build the system with PVC joints. I suspect
that with careful attention to the joints, mounting points, etc, that
a PVC system could be workable, although repairs mean carrying yet
another pair of volatile chemicals on board.
Lance
— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “Bob Weeks”
<rweeks6508@…> wrote:
There must be a way to over come the vibrations (sounds like you
guys have
your motor on all the time I thought we were sailors only
motorboaters
should have vibration problems) problem if the ABYC has approved
this for
their standards. I thought I read the the PVC has to be anchored
to the
hull (?) inconjunction with the hose pieces to prevent vibrations
from doing
any great damage. I think its a workable solution at 1/3 of the
cost. It
cost me over $150 just in hose (@$8.xx/ft) to reinstall the system
in my F30
plus the $75 y value. And I would bet the PVC would outlast the
hose by two
fold. Only an opinion!Bob
Posted by Herman and Gail Schiller (hschiller2@…>)
All this discussion sure makes a composting toilet look appealing. Herm
At 04:47 PM 4/30/2008, you wrote:
Sorry Bob, I should have been more specific. Any pounding,
shuddering, vibration, whether it comes from the rhythmic thrum of
the engine or a constant pounding into heavy seas could be a source
of joint failure, if you build the system with PVC joints. I suspect
that with careful attention to the joints, mounting points, etc, that
a PVC system could be workable, although repairs mean carrying yet
another pair of volatile chemicals on board.Lance
— In
mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup%40yahoogroups.comFreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
,
“Bob Weeks”
<rweeks6508@…> wrote:There must be a way to over come the vibrations (sounds like you
guys have
your motor on all the time I thought we were sailors only
motorboaters
should have vibration problems) problem if the ABYC has approved
this for
their standards. I thought I read the the PVC has to be anchored
to the
hull (?) inconjunction with the hose pieces to prevent vibrations
from doing
any great damage. I think its a workable solution at 1/3 of the
cost. It
cost me over $150 just in hose (@$8.xx/ft) to reinstall the system
in my F30
plus the $75 y value. And I would bet the PVC would outlast the
hose by two
fold. Only an opinion!Bob
Posted by sgaber@…> (sgaber@…>)
And probably cheaper in the long run.
Also better for the environment.
Steve Gaber
Sanderling, 1967 C-31 #77
Oldsmar, FL
---- Herman and Gail Schiller <hschiller2@…> wrote:
All this discussion sure makes a composting toilet look appealing. Herm
At 04:47 PM 4/30/2008, you wrote:
Sorry Bob, I should have been more specific. Any pounding,
shuddering, vibration, whether it comes from the rhythmic thrum of
the engine or a constant pounding into heavy seas could be a source
of joint failure, if you build the system with PVC joints. I suspect
that with careful attention to the joints, mounting points, etc, that
a PVC system could be workable, although repairs mean carrying yet
another pair of volatile chemicals on board.Lance
— In
mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup%40yahoogroups.comFreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
,“Bob Weeks”
<rweeks6508@…> wrote:There must be a way to over come the vibrations (sounds like you
guys have
your motor on all the time I thought we were sailors only
motorboaters
should have vibration problems) problem if the ABYC has approved
this for
their standards. I thought I read the the PVC has to be anchored
to the
hull (?) inconjunction with the hose pieces to prevent vibrations
from doing
any great damage. I think its a workable solution at 1/3 of the
cost. It
cost me over $150 just in hose (@$8.xx/ft) to reinstall the system
in my F30
plus the $75 y value. And I would bet the PVC would outlast the
hose by two
fold. Only an opinion!Bob
–
Posted by sgaber@…> (sgaber@…>)
And probably cheaper in the long run.
Also better for the environment.
Steve Gaber
Sanderling, 1967 C-31 #77
Oldsmar, FL
---- Herman and Gail Schiller <hschiller2@…> wrote:
All this discussion sure makes a composting toilet look appealing. Herm
At 04:47 PM 4/30/2008, you wrote:
Sorry Bob, I should have been more specific. Any pounding,
shuddering, vibration, whether it comes from the rhythmic thrum of
the engine or a constant pounding into heavy seas could be a source
of joint failure, if you build the system with PVC joints. I suspect
that with careful attention to the joints, mounting points, etc, that
a PVC system could be workable, although repairs mean carrying yet
another pair of volatile chemicals on board.Lance
— In
mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup%40yahoogroups.comFreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
,“Bob Weeks”
<rweeks6508@…> wrote:There must be a way to over come the vibrations (sounds like you
guys have
your motor on all the time I thought we were sailors only
motorboaters
should have vibration problems) problem if the ABYC has approved
this for
their standards. I thought I read the the PVC has to be anchored
to the
hull (?) inconjunction with the hose pieces to prevent vibrations
from doing
any great damage. I think its a workable solution at 1/3 of the
cost. It
cost me over $150 just in hose (@$8.xx/ft) to reinstall the system
in my F30
plus the $75 y value. And I would bet the PVC would outlast the
hose by two
fold. Only an opinion!Bob
–
Posted by Bob Weeks (rweeks6508@…>)
Not sure of you choice here and what is cheaper and more friendly to the environment. Both are petroleum products so I dont think neither are environment friendly in the long run. $8 per foot versus $8 for 3 eight foot length of PVC pipe…
Bob
From: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sgaber@…Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 11:14 PMTo: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.comCc: Herman and Gail SchillerSubject: Re: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Re: Head Hoses in plastic wrap
And probably cheaper in the long run.Also better for the environment.Steve GaberSanderling, 1967 C-31 #77Oldsmar, FL---- Herman and Gail Schiller <hschiller2@suddenlink.net> wrote: > All this discussion sure makes a composting toilet look appealing. Herm> > At 04:47 PM 4/30/2008, you wrote:> > >Sorry Bob, I should have been more specific. Any pounding,> >shuddering, vibration, whether it comes from the rhythmic thrum of> >the engine or a constant pounding into heavy seas could be a source> >of joint failure, if you build the system with PVC joints. I suspect> >that with careful attention to the joints, mounting points, etc, that> >a PVC system could be workable, although repairs mean carrying yet> >another pair of volatile chemicals on board.> >> >Lance> >> >— In > >mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup%40yahoogroups.comFreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, > >“Bob Weeks”> ><rweeks6508@…> wrote:> > >> > > There must be a way to over come the vibrations (sounds like you> >guys have> > > your motor on all the time I thought we were sailors only> >motorboaters> > > should have vibration problems) problem if the ABYC has approved> >this for> > > their standards. I thought I read the the PVC has to be anchored> >to the> > > hull (?) inconjunction with the hose pieces to prevent vibrations> >from doing> > > any great damage. I think its a workable solution at 1/3 of the> >cost. It> > > cost me over $150 just in hose (@$8.xx/ft) to reinstall the system> >in my F30> > > plus the $75 y value. And I would bet the PVC would outlast the> >hose by two> > > fold. Only an opinion!> > >> > > Bob> >> >> –
Posted by Lola Jackson (lolaltd@…>)
Hi Folks…for starters I’m going to try the plastic wrap…if you can wrap an onion and not smell up the refrigerator…it makes sense…I’d love the compost toilet…but I’m running out of funds.Lola F30Bob Weeks <rweeks6508@…> wrote: Not sure of you choice here and what is cheaper and more friendly to the environment. Both are petroleum products so I dont think neither are environment friendly in the long
run. $8 per foot versus $8 for 3 eight foot length of PVC pipe… Bob From: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sgaber@tampabay.rr.comSent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 11:14 PMTo: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.comCc: Herman and Gail SchillerSubject: Re: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Re: Head
Hoses in plastic wrap And probably cheaper in the long run.Also better for the environment.Steve GaberSanderling, 1967 C-31 #77Oldsmar, FL---- Herman and Gail Schiller <hschiller2@suddenlink.net> wrote: > All this discussion sure makes a composting toilet look appealing. Herm> > At 04:47 PM 4/30/2008, you wrote:> > >Sorry Bob, I should have been more specific. Any pounding,> >shuddering, vibration, whether it comes from the rhythmic thrum of> >the engine or a constant pounding into heavy seas could be a source> >of joint failure, if you build the system with PVC joints. I suspect> >that with careful attention to the joints, mounting points, etc, that> >a PVC system could be workable, although repairs mean carrying yet>
another pair of volatile chemicals on board.> >> >Lance> >> >— In > >mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup%40yahoogroups.comFreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, > >“Bob Weeks”> ><rweeks6508@…> wrote:> > >> > > There must be a way to over come the vibrations (sounds like you> >guys have> > > your motor on all the time I thought we were sailors only> >motorboaters> > > should have vibration problems) problem if the ABYC has approved> >this for> > > their standards. I thought I read the the PVC has to be anchored> >to the> > > hull (?) inconjunction with the hose pieces to prevent vibrations> >from doing> > > any great damage. I think its a workable solution at
1/3 of the> >cost. It> > > cost me over $150 just in hose (@$8.xx/ft) to reinstall the system> >in my F30> > > plus the $75 y value. And I would bet the PVC would outlast the> >hose by two> > > fold. Only an opinion!> > >> > > Bob> >> >> –
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
Posted by William A Cormack (wacormack@…>)
Been watching the thread about head hoses and have to put in my
two cents.
My 1986 F36 was very smelly when I purchased it in 2003.
First thing I did was to change the hoses to the white $8+/ft kind and Y valves.
Result – limited improvement. Last year I removed the old 12 gallon
holding tank and installed a new 23 gallon one (under the port seat) along with
new hoses, no Y valves or pumps. My current system receives effluent from
the head into the tank and is pumped out via the deck fitting. This works
well until I get the time to do more extensive cruising when I will have to
have more alternatives for disposing of the effluent.
In addition to the effluent hoses I replaced all of the other
hoses in the boat. Don’t omit this if you want a sweet smelling
boat because the sea water has a multitude of organisms in it that decay inside
the hoses and smell just as bad as the effluent. Particularly bad was the
hose from the galley sink to the seacock. It had dip in the middle that
meant that whatever went down the sink remained in the hose for an extended
period if you did not run a lot of water through it. I replaced this with
PVC pipe connected at both ends with flexible hose to avoid vibrations
problems.
The end result has been gratifying - no more smells from the
hoses. Now all that is left is diesel smell from the Yanmar.
A particularly helpful resource in this process was Scott at Worldwide
Enterprises http://www.worldwideent.net/
in Falmouth Mass. He supplied the sanitation hose, fittings and the
holding tank and several tips on the installation. They have been doing
installations like this for a long time. The tips:
-
Plumb the
discharge from the tank off the bottom of the tank for a complete emptying.
He helped design this.
2. Use
ordinary dish soap to seal the connections. Any brand will do. This
stuff helps lubricate the hose while you are attaching it and then hardens to
seal it. No leaks after a year.
3. Use a
heat gun to soften the hose during installation, nearly impossible without
this. When doing this only heat one side of the hose, if you heat the
whole end of the hose it will become too flexible to push onto the fitting.
As for wrapping the hose to help the problem, I think this must
be a waste of time and effort. There is no way to get a 100% seal all
around the hose and for its entire length and odor will find its way out.
Further, the thick hose smells because the odor permeated it, in my opinion the
thin tape or plastic covering will soon also permeate and you will be back to
the original problem.
Bill Cormack
Sailing “Hard Earned”
New Bedford Yacht Club
From:
FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Bob Weeks
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 7:16 AM
To: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
Cc: ‘Herman and Gail Schiller’
Subject: RE: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Re: Head Hoses in plastic wrap
\
Not sure of you choice here and what is cheaper and more friendly
to the environment. Both are petroleum products so I dont think neither
are environment friendly in the long run. $8 per foot versus $8 for 3
eight foot length of PVC pipe…
Bob
From: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sgaber@…
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 11:14 PM
To: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Herman and Gail Schiller
Subject: Re: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Re: Head Hoses in plastic wrap
And probably cheaper in the long run.
Also better for the environment.
Steve Gaber
Sanderling, 1967 C-31 #77
Oldsmar, FL
---- Herman and Gail Schiller <hschiller2@…>
wrote:
All this discussion sure makes a composting toilet look appealing. Herm
At 04:47 PM 4/30/2008, you wrote:
Sorry Bob, I should have been more specific. Any pounding,
shuddering, vibration, whether it comes from the rhythmic thrum of
the engine or a constant pounding into heavy seas could be a source
of joint failure, if you build the system with PVC joints. I suspect
that with careful attention to the joints, mounting points, etc, that
a PVC system could be workable, although repairs mean carrying yet
another pair of volatile chemicals on board.Lance
— In
mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup%40yahoogroups.comFreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com,
“Bob Weeks”
<rweeks6508@…> wrote:There must be a way to over come the vibrations (sounds like you
guys have
your motor on all the time I thought we were sailors only
motorboaters
should have vibration problems) problem if the ABYC has approved
this for
their standards. I thought I read the the PVC has to be anchored
to the
hull (?) inconjunction with the hose pieces to prevent
vibrations
from doing
any great damage. I think its a workable solution at 1/3 of the
cost. It
cost me over $150 just in hose (@$8.xx/ft) to reinstall the
system
in my F30
plus the $75 y value. And I would bet the PVC would outlast the
hose by two
fold. Only an opinion!Bob
–
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Posted by lance_ryley (lance_ryley@…>)
As usual, Bill, an excellent post. Your setup and mine are similar if
I’m reading you right - no Y valves. On Glory, we use an Electroscan
to minimize the amount of pumping out we do. Our holding tank has two
outlets, one to the deck and one to the electroscan. the one
difference is that our holding tank uses dip tubes coming from the
top. There are two advantages as I see it. The first is that when you
empty the tank, whatever is in the hose is either discharged or runs
back into the bottom of the tank (we can get it down to about 1/2",
whereas with a bottom exit (which the old tank on Bright Star had),
as you fill the tank, waste necessarily fills the hose as well, which
can lead to premature permeation. The other advantage is that the
hoses coming from the tank start off above the liquid level of the
tank no matter what, so if there is a failure in a hose joint, you
are less likely to end up with a huge hairy mess.
The heat gun trick works pretty well, as does a hair dryer, but I’ve
found that with certain types of sanitation hose (I think
the ‘cheaper’ stuff from West Marine, heat can actually cause a
restriction of the diameter - think heat-shrink tubing - rather than
opening it up. That’s when i discovered the hot water trick. I had
forgotten about the dish soap, but that definitely works well and is
a lot cheaper than the ‘hose lube’ they sell in the marine stores.
lance
— In FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com, “William A Cormack”
<wacormack@…> wrote:
Been watching the thread about head hoses and have to put in my two
cents.My 1986 F36 was very smelly when I purchased it in 2003. First
thing I
did was to change the hoses to the white $8+/ft kind and Y valves.
Result - limited improvement. Last year I removed the old 12 gallon
holding tank and installed a new 23 gallon one (under the port seat)
along with new hoses, no Y valves or pumps. My current system
receives
effluent from the head into the tank and is pumped out via the deck
fitting. This works well until I get the time to do more extensive
cruising when I will have to have more alternatives for disposing
of the
effluent.In addition to the effluent hoses I replaced all of the other hoses
in
the boat. Don’t omit this if you want a sweet smelling boat
because the
sea water has a multitude of organisms in it that decay inside the
hoses
and smell just as bad as the effluent. Particularly bad was the
hose
from the galley sink to the seacock. It had dip in the middle that
meant that whatever went down the sink remained in the hose for an
extended period if you did not run a lot of water through it. I
replaced this with PVC pipe connected at both ends with flexible
hose to
avoid vibrations problems.The end result has been gratifying - no more smells from the
hoses. Now
all that is left is diesel smell from the Yanmar.A particularly helpful resource in this process was Scott at
Worldwide
Enterprises http://www.worldwideent.net/ in Falmouth Mass. He
supplied
the sanitation hose, fittings and the holding tank and several tips
on
the installation. They have been doing installations like this for
a
long time. The tips:
Plumb the discharge from the tank off the bottom of the tank
for
a complete emptying. He helped design this.
Use ordinary dish soap to seal the connections. Any brand
will
do. This stuff helps lubricate the hose while you are attaching it
and
then hardens to seal it. No leaks after a year.
Use a heat gun to soften the hose during installation, nearlyimpossible without this. When doing this only heat one side of the
hose, if you heat the whole end of the hose it will become too
flexible
to push onto the fitting.As for wrapping the hose to help the problem, I think this must be a
waste of time and effort. There is no way to get a 100% seal all
around
the hose and for its entire length and odor will find its way out.
Further, the thick hose smells because the odor permeated it, in my
opinion the thin tape or plastic covering will soon also permeate
and
you will be back to the original problem.Bill Cormack
Sailing “Hard Earned”
New Bedford Yacht Club
Posted by sgaber@…> (sgaber@…>)
I meant the composting toilet was cheaper and more environmentally friendly than
a system that requires hoses, clamps, pipes, valves, holding tanks, macerators,
chemicals and, eventually, pumpout somewhere.
–
Steve Gaber
Sanderling, 1967 C-31 #77
Oldsmar, FL
---- Bob Weeks <rweeks6508@…> wrote:
Not sure of you choice here and what is cheaper and more friendly to the
environment. Both are petroleum products so I dont think neither are
environment friendly in the long run. $8 per foot versus $8 for 3 eight
foot length of PVC pipe…Bob
From: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
sgaber@…
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 11:14 PM
To: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Herman and Gail Schiller
Subject: Re: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Re: Head Hoses in plastic wrapAnd probably cheaper in the long run.
Also better for the environment.
Steve Gaber
Sanderling, 1967 C-31 #77
Oldsmar, FL---- Herman and Gail Schiller <hschiller2@suddenli
mailto:hschiller2%40suddenlink.net nk.net> wrote:All this discussion sure makes a composting toilet look appealing. Herm
At 04:47 PM 4/30/2008, you wrote:
Sorry Bob, I should have been more specific. Any pounding,
shuddering, vibration, whether it comes from the rhythmic thrum of
the engine or a constant pounding into heavy seas could be a source
of joint failure, if you build the system with PVC joints. I suspect
that with careful attention to the joints, mounting points, etc, that
a PVC system could be workable, although repairs mean carrying yet
another pair of volatile chemicals on board.Lance
— In
mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup%40yahoogroups.comFreedomOwnersGroup@
mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com,
“Bob Weeks”
<rweeks6508@…> wrote:There must be a way to over come the vibrations (sounds like you
guys have
your motor on all the time I thought we were sailors only
motorboaters
should have vibration problems) problem if the ABYC has approved
this for
their standards. I thought I read the the PVC has to be anchored
to the
hull (?) inconjunction with the hose pieces to prevent vibrations
from doing
any great damage. I think its a workable solution at 1/3 of the
cost. It
cost me over $150 just in hose (@$8.xx/ft) to reinstall the system
in my F30
plus the $75 y value. And I would bet the PVC would outlast the
hose by two
fold. Only an opinion!Bob
–
Posted by Bob Weeks (rweeks6508@…>)
Sorry about that I did not mention composting so I naturally thought you
were responding to me about PVC piping.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: sgaber@… [mailto:sgaber@…]
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 1:47 AM
To: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Bob Weeks
Subject: RE: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Re: Head Hoses in plastic wrap
I meant the composting toilet was cheaper and more environmentally friendly
than a system that requires hoses, clamps, pipes, valves, holding tanks,
macerators, chemicals and, eventually, pumpout somewhere.
–
Steve Gaber
Sanderling, 1967 C-31 #77
Oldsmar, FL
---- Bob Weeks <rweeks6508@…> wrote:
Not sure of you choice here and what is cheaper and more friendly to
the environment. Both are petroleum products so I dont think neither
are environment friendly in the long run. $8 per foot versus $8 for 3
eight foot length of PVC pipe…Bob
From: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
sgaber@…
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 11:14 PM
To: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Herman and Gail Schiller
Subject: Re: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Re: Head Hoses in plastic wrapAnd probably cheaper in the long run.
Also better for the environment.
Steve Gaber
Sanderling, 1967 C-31 #77
Oldsmar, FL---- Herman and Gail Schiller <hschiller2@suddenli
mailto:hschiller2%40suddenlink.net nk.net> wrote:All this discussion sure makes a composting toilet look appealing.
HermAt 04:47 PM 4/30/2008, you wrote:
Sorry Bob, I should have been more specific. Any pounding,
shuddering, vibration, whether it comes from the rhythmic thrum of
the engine or a constant pounding into heavy seas could be a source
of joint failure, if you build the system with PVC joints. I
suspect that with careful attention to the joints, mounting points,
etc, that a PVC system could be workable, although repairs mean
carrying yet another pair of volatile chemicals on board.Lance
— In
mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup%40yahoogroups.comFreedomOwnersGroup@
mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com,
“Bob Weeks”
<rweeks6508@…> wrote:There must be a way to over come the vibrations (sounds like you
guys have
your motor on all the time I thought we were sailors only
motorboaters
should have vibration problems) problem if the ABYC has approved
this for
their standards. I thought I read the the PVC has to be anchored
to the
hull (?) inconjunction with the hose pieces to prevent
vibrations
from doing
any great damage. I think its a workable solution at 1/3 of the
cost. It
cost me over $150 just in hose (@$8.xx/ft) to reinstall the
system
in my F30
plus the $75 y value. And I would bet the PVC would outlast the
hose by two
fold. Only an opinion!Bob
–
\
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.7/1410 - Release Date: 5/1/2008
5:30 PM
Posted by Bob Weeks (rweeks6508@…>)
Steve
FYI…I dont know if I am the only one but I get two of every one of your emails…
Bob
From: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sgaber@…Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 1:47 AMTo: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.comCc: Bob WeeksSubject: RE: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Re: Head Hoses in plastic wrap
I meant the composting toilet was cheaper and more environmentally friendly than a system that requires hoses, clamps, pipes, valves, holding tanks, macerators, chemicals and, eventually, pumpout somewhere.–Steve GaberSanderling, 1967 C-31 #77Oldsmar, FL---- Bob Weeks <rweeks6508@verizon.net> wrote: > Not sure of you choice here and what is cheaper and more friendly to the> environment. Both are petroleum products so I dont think neither are> environment friendly in the long run. $8 per foot versus $8 for 3 eight> foot length of PVC pipe…> > > Bob> > _____ > > From: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com> [mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of> sgaber@tampabay.rr.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 11:14 PM> To: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com> Cc: Herman and Gail Schiller> Subject: Re: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Re: Head Hoses in plastic wrap> > > > And probably cheaper in the long run.> > Also better for the environment.> > Steve Gaber> Sanderling, 1967 C-31 #77> Oldsmar, FL> > ---- Herman and Gail Schiller hschiller2@suddenli mailto:hschiller2%40suddenlink.net nk.net> wrote: > > All this discussion sure makes a composting toilet look appealing. Herm> > > > At 04:47 PM 4/30/2008, you wrote:> > > > >Sorry Bob, I should have been more specific. Any pounding,> > >shuddering, vibration, whether it comes from the rhythmic thrum of> > >the engine or a constant pounding into heavy seas could be a source> > >of joint failure, if you build the system with PVC joints. I suspect> > >that with careful attention to the joints, mounting points, etc, that> > >a PVC system could be workable, although repairs mean carrying yet> > >another pair of volatile chemicals on board.> > >> > >Lance> > >> > >— In > > >mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup%40yahoogroups.comFreedomOwnersGroup@> mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com, > > >“Bob Weeks”> > ><rweeks6508@…> wrote:> > > >> > > > There must be a way to over come the vibrations (sounds like you> > >guys have> > > > your motor on all the time I thought we were sailors only> > >motorboaters> > > > should have vibration problems) problem if the ABYC has approved> > >this for> > > > their standards. I thought I read the the PVC has to be anchored> > >to the> > > > hull (?) inconjunction with the hose pieces to prevent vibrations> > >from doing> > > > any great damage. I think its a workable solution at 1/3 of the> > >cost. It> > > > cost me over $150 just in hose (@$8.xx/ft) to reinstall the system> > >in my F30> > > > plus the $75 y value. And I would bet the PVC would outlast the> > >hose by two> > > > fold. Only an opinion!> > > >> > > > Bob> > >> > >> > > > → > > >
Posted by sgaber@…> (sgaber@…>)
Sorry. I will contnact Road Runner and try to sort it out.
Let me know if you get two copoies of this too.
Steve Gaber
Sanderling, 1967 C-31 #77
Oldsmar, FL
---- Bob Weeks <rweeks6508@…> wrote:
Steve
FYI…I dont know if I am the only one but I get two of every one of your
emails…Bob
From: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
sgaber@…
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 1:47 AM
To: FreedomOwnersGroup@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Bob Weeks
Subject: RE: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Re: Head Hoses in plastic wrapI meant the composting toilet was cheaper and more environmentally friendly
than a system that requires hoses, clamps, pipes, valves, holding tanks,
macerators, chemicals and, eventually, pumpout somewhere.–
Steve Gaber
Sanderling, 1967 C-31 #77
Oldsmar, FL---- Bob Weeks <rweeks6508@verizon. mailto:rweeks6508%40verizon.net net>
wrote:Not sure of you choice here and what is cheaper and more friendly to the
environment. Both are petroleum products so I dont think neither are
environment friendly in the long run. $8 per foot versus $8 for 3 eight
foot length of PVC pipe…Bob
From: FreedomOwnersGroup@ mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup%40yahoogroups.com
yahoogroups.com
[mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup@ mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup%40yahoogroups.com
yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
sgaber@tampabay. mailto:sgaber%40tampabay.rr.com rr.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 11:14 PM
To: FreedomOwnersGroup@ mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup%40yahoogroups.com
yahoogroups.com
Cc: Herman and Gail Schiller
Subject: Re: [FreedomOwnersGroup] Re: Head Hoses in plastic wrapAnd probably cheaper in the long run.
Also better for the environment.
Steve Gaber
Sanderling, 1967 C-31 #77
Oldsmar, FL---- Herman and Gail Schiller <hschiller2@suddenli
mailto:hschiller2%40suddenlink.net nk.net> wrote:All this discussion sure makes a composting toilet look appealing. Herm
At 04:47 PM 4/30/2008, you wrote:
Sorry Bob, I should have been more specific. Any pounding,
shuddering, vibration, whether it comes from the rhythmic thrum of
the engine or a constant pounding into heavy seas could be a source
of joint failure, if you build the system with PVC joints. I suspect
that with careful attention to the joints, mounting points, etc, that
a PVC system could be workable, although repairs mean carrying yet
another pair of volatile chemicals on board.Lance
— In
mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup%40yahoogroups.comFreedomOwnersGroup@
mailto:FreedomOwnersGroup%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com,
“Bob Weeks”
<rweeks6508@…> wrote:There must be a way to over come the vibrations (sounds like you
guys have
your motor on all the time I thought we were sailors only
motorboaters
should have vibration problems) problem if the ABYC has approved
this for
their standards. I thought I read the the PVC has to be anchored
to the
hull (?) inconjunction with the hose pieces to prevent vibrations
from doing
any great damage. I think its a workable solution at 1/3 of the
cost. It
cost me over $150 just in hose (@$8.xx/ft) to reinstall the system
in my F30
plus the $75 y value. And I would bet the PVC would outlast the
hose by two
fold. Only an opinion!Bob
–
–