Hi,
Is this the typical port window setup, '84 F32? Simply, plexiglass attached with butlyl tape and 6-7 screws? The tape is completely hardened. Looking for tips on replacement strategy. I pulled 2 windows for size and will replace all once I have replacements. One window had a small leak (leading corner in photo, I assume) and half of them were too hazed to see out of.
Tips, or links, on plexiglass type and source and butlyl tape appreciated.
Thanks. Tom
That looks like a bit of a mess. But you have a perfect opportunity for a beautiful replacement job. Can you show us a pic of what this looks like on the inside of the boat? There seems to be quite a bit of open space between screws so that might be something to think about. Hopefully this area is not cored. It is not on the Freedom 30 (mull).
In my personal opinion you should not even consider silicone or 5200 for this job. You have mechanical fasteners to hold the port to the boat. That is a butyl job if there ever was one. Think really hard about how to protect from water ingress around the screws, you really have to be methodical. PM me if you want some ideas.
The one thing that is priceless about butyl is that if you screw up, you can disassemble and try again. It sucks but it is not utter torture like it would be if you used silicone or 5200.
edit: if you use butyl you will get some squeeze out. Deal with this by razoring it off with something like this:
The other nice thing about bed it butyl is that you can clean up with mineral spirit. Nothing fancy needed.
Mike,
I appreciate the reply. Here’s the view from the inside, same port. There is no frame or anything on the inside, just plexi attached on the outside as shown. I have seen other posts mentioning a frame which got me wondering about these. This setup appeared to work, and only leaked at the one window, so I am assuming that cleaned up with new seals it will be fine. But I’d love to hear from others on this.
This was the worse port window of course. The others are neat with no leaking but they are all aged so there’s no sense in redoing just one.
Thanks. Tom
ps. thanks for the additional info on your recent post. Very helpful!
Tom, on my 30 and I think this is common, there is an aluminum trim ring around the interior of the fixed portlights. Machine screws are inserted into this ring and screw into an exterior frame which bears down on the window as the interior screws are tightened. In our case the frame is a somewhat complex profile so a nice clean exterior moulding is presented to the outside world.
Having said this, I kind of like the exterior screws and bare bones appearance of your ports because you can see everything. If there is a leak, it is relatively easy to troubleshoot. I have had leaks that present themselves at the end of a long piece of trim in the main cabin…“where the hell is that coming from?” is my usual refrain. The answer has been either from a fixed portlight or a leaking through bolt in the cabin top. I kid you not. Water leaks can drip behind our interior teak cladding and go every which where. So consider yourself lucky.
How are the exterior screws seated? Are threaded holes tapped in the FG or are there some sort of tapped inserts? I assume whatever method is used it is pretty secure? Assuming no through bolting, good screw security and no exposed core, this is really good and simple IMO. The only way water can get in is through the window to cabin seal or a broken window. If you do a nice clean job, I have found you can actually inspect the seal through even tinted windows using a strong LED flashlight. This allows you to do a spray test with the hose (using a strong spray handle directed at the seals) and then wipe the window down and inspect for any areas where water may have gotten into the gap between window and boat. Most times this can be fixed by simply scootching up the screws a bit esp. if you are using butyl which will compress as you apply additional squeezing. If you trim the squeeze out and don’t use any goop like silicone, etc. your ports are going to look really sweet. Don’t go crazy with the tightening.
In summary, I would not consider frames unless the screw security is questionable.
Freedom I’ve been using the last couple years had windows that were leaking. I watched the yard tech reseal them using tape and silicone. I can’t recall the exact brand names or make. They were different than what you have. There was basically a lip the window sat in recessed and flush with the cabin exterior. No screws at all. Didn’t leak the rest of the season. Been looking at how to replace the glass myself and how to add a metal trim on the exterior to give it a cleaner look.
Looking forward to tracking your progress.
I think the tape that’s used is 3M VHB, which stands for “very high bond.” Then silicone fills in the gap around the glass on the outside.
Zepher yes I’m wondering if it needs a bonding tape as you mention. I can’t tell what the original was because it is now hardened but it is obviously stuck on. With the plexiglas and no frame I can’t tighten down on those screws much at all, the plexi will crack. The screws were certainly not in tight. Decisions…
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Zepher yes I’m wondering if it needs a bonding tape as you mention. I can’t tell what the original was because it is now hardened but it is obviously stuck on. With the plexiglas and no frame I can’t tighten down on those screws much at all, the plexi will crack. The screws were certainly not in tight. Decisions…
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That may be why Freedom went to the frame approach. On my portlights the glass and the cabin side are securely compressed together between the external and internal frames.
I had a similar situation on my F25. I used Dow Corning 795 structural silicone, and screws with oversized holes and washers at either end of the unframed Plexiglas windows to hold the curve until the silicone had cured. Acrylic expands and contracts a lot, so it’s important for the screw holes to be oversized. The DC795 held well for all the years I owned the boat. It’s inexpensive, and while messy, easy to use. Oh, and I placed a few small plastic washers between the acrylic and the window recess so I didn’t squish out all the bedding. Hope that helps.
Tom, I had wondered the same thing about my '84 32 as it has the same mounting as yours, no framing at all and only screws holding the windows. I too have replacing windows on my to do list and mine were supposedly replaced not too long prior to my purchase except almost all of them leak to due stress cracks which formed shortly prior to me obtaining her. I had considered making a recess for the windows but without knowing the internal structure around them I would hesitate to remove material. If you would be so kind as to let me know if you are able to confirm if this area is cored or all fiberglass, I would appreciate it. Good luck, would love to see pictures when completed.
John,
I guess it’s a little reassuring to me that my setup is normal, as yours is the same. I’ll follow up with how it is turning out so stay tuned. I have the replacement plexiglass cut and ready on hand ($330 at a local glass shop). I’m waiting for a warmer day to fill some spots where fiberglass surface chunks pulled out with the plexi that I removed. Mine has 2 different era plexi, one side had hardened VHB tape that I had to ship off, the other side has newer (I assume) VHB tape that I have to slowly peal away by fingers.
Regarding your question, I think this is cored from the look of the screw holes. I am not an authority on this but making a recess sounds like an undertaking to me.
Installing the new plexi, Trisha above mentioned making oversized screw holes in the plexi. That makes a lot of sense to me. I think the plexi is mostly held by VHB tape and the screws bend it to the cabin. If the plexi naturally expands and contracts significantly, as some have mentioned, I think it may need to be allowed to shift, or flex, by having oversized screw holes. The tape and caulk will also allow for flex. Just my opinion on this but that’s where I’m headed.
Regarding you last paragraph, the lack of expansion room is what I believe to be the root cause of the plexi on mine to crack. I won’t know for certain until disassembly, but most radiate from screw holes. So yes, I agree that is absolutely necessary.
What thickness plexi are you using? Did you decide to go clear or tinted? I’m most likely going for a light tint.
As for recessing the plexi, if that section is cored then I will not even consider attempting it. One thing I don’t have the patience for is finish work with fiberglass. I’m fine with everything short of finishing, my patience runs out long before I achieve the picture in my head. 
I look forward to seeing the final product, good luck.
Still at this, I am not quick. I got all the plexi off a few days ago. Since then I’ve been removing the old VHB tape and filling in some cracks in the fiberglass underneath. I hope to start putting some of my new ones back in tomorrow.
John the plexi is 1/4 inch thick and I got nearly the same tint (the glass shop called it bronze). The plexi holes on the previous pieces were tight, threaded the plexi some. I’m surprised more areas of the plexi were not cracked. I am making oversized holes.
Hoping to wrap this up by mid week. I need to move on to cleaning up the bottom and painting. The put in date will come up fast I’m sure!
I replaced mine with solid tempered glass, tinted. The original ones were cracked, old and leaky.
They used tape and caulked afterwards, very sleek, one long window. Zero screws. Looking for a picture that isnt too large to upload.
Glass gives way more light, less distortion and very difficult to break (hopefully).
sforgey2 that sounds interesting. I’d love to see how that looks. The picture in my imagination looks great but you know how those go lol.
Here’s a few pics of the completed project. Very happy to get this done. Wish I had taken some pics from the inside because on one side of the boat we could not see out of the plexi at all. Some water on the windows after cleaning the deck.
Oversized screw holes (wish I had ordered the plexi 1/2 larger all around so as not to drill too close to the edge)
VHB tape
Dow Corning 795 structural silicone - used a dab here and there particularly if there was a gap in tape ends
White marine silicone on the outside, a little clear silicone on the inside (to fill some pockets left on inside between plexi and cabin)
Note pulled, cleaned, varnished the hand rail had rust coming out of one bolt.
These windows look great! Great job.
I couldn’t help notice the handrail removal. That’s ok my list of “to do”. It looks like it is secured using bolts and not screws? Did you just remove the wood plugs and was there nuts you backed off to remove? The bolts are embedded and anchored in the cabin top or so they go all the way through the cabin top?
i will post some pics of the windows when I am back in Florida on my boat in the next few weeks. I don’t have anything but high def photos…so I will have to take a few new ones.
Weirdo, I’m going to start a new thread for this under “Everything Else” because I don’t have a good answer and I’d like to get input on that also. Watch for the post “Handrail” or Handrail attachment. Thanks. Tom
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These windows look great! Great job.
I couldn’t help notice the handrail removal. That’s ok my list of “to do”. It looks like it is secured using bolts and not screws? Did you just remove the wood plugs and was there nuts you backed off to remove? The bolts are embedded and anchored in the cabin top or so they go all the way through the cabin top?
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ps. Sforgey2 I would like to see those windows also! You may be able to save the pics you have with a reduced size, save as, or export with a reduced size (less than 125kb I think).
TMack, those have a great look to them and I’m sure add to the attraction of the boat. Nice job.