Shakedown cruise - F-40 Cat-Ketch

[Jay_Glen]

Posted by Jay Glen (svfantasy@…>)

Hello All,

After almost two years living aboard “Fantasy”, a 1981 F-40 CK hull

60, and upgrading almost all systems aboard, I finally got things

to a point that I felt a first sea trial was in order. Although I
had sailed her many times in the California Delta and San Francisco
Bay this would be Fantasy’s" first offshore cruise.

I had sailed my previous boats (Bristol 30 & Pacific Seacraft 31)
many times out the Golden Gate to Half Moon Bay, Santa Cruz,
Montery, Drakes Bay and the Farralon Islands. And now,I was anxious
to see how well Fantasy would do in the waters off the California
coast.

My friend Bob and I left Glen Cove Marina on the Carquinez Straights
last Friday morning at 1030 hrs. We had the wind on the nose (15
kts) all the way accross San Pablo Bay into San Francisco Bay. The
wind then picked up to 30 kts gusting to 35 kts as we approached
Sausalito, Ca where we would anchor for the night. The following
morning we found the winds very light as we ghosted out the Golden
Gate on a strong ebb. As usual, ten foot rollers were coming through
the gate, though spaced enough to not be of much concern. After sail
out approximately 3 miles we headed South with 12 kts on our
starboard beam. The seas were now also on our starboard beam at
approximately 10 ft. We raced along at 5.5 kts making Half Moon Bay
in about 4 hours. Off Hal Moon Bay the winds picked up to 25 kts
gusting to 30 kts. with the seas now running 12 feet and fairly
close. Even with the confused sea and strong winds Fantasy performed
better than I could have ever imagined. Very little rolling and a
very comfortable ride. Even at the start with 7 kts of wind she foot
right along effortlessly.

After a couple of days anchored in the outer harbor, we left with no
wind, however the seas were still running about 10 ft every 8
seconds. We were forced to motor back to the Gate where we finally
found 15 Kts of wind to enter San Francisco Bay. We were happy to
have this wind all the way back to Glen Cove.

I just wanted to share my excitement with all of you Freedom owners.
Once you get past the exertion of raising these heavy sails on the
Cat-Ketch, then sorting out and organizing all of the lines, the
Freedom 40 FLIES! Light air or heavy air, the ride is comfortable
and safe. I love this boat!

By the way, my rig is aluminum wishbones with full batten sails on
Harken Batt-Cars. I am preparing for a cruise to Mexico next Fall
(07). Now I know Fantasy is ready.

Sorry for being so winded - pun intended!

Jay Glen
s/v Fantasy

[michel.capel]

Posted by michel.capel (michel.capel@…>)

Jay,

Nice to hear that you like the boat so much. It would be quite a
disappointment after two years of work if you didn’t.

I have a few questions about your rig because i’m trying to rerig my
wishbones and fully battened sails on track to a more efficient
setup with as few lines as possible:

1. how is your wishbone attached to the mast; do you have pennants
   or just the choker/outhaul?
2. how is your outhaul or choker arrangement?
3. how did you lead your reefing lines?

Thanks, and perhaps you have some photos?

michel


— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Jay Glen” <svfantasy@…>
wrote:

Hello All,

After almost two years living aboard “Fantasy”, a 1981 F-40 CK
hull

60, and upgrading almost all systems aboard, I finally got

things

to a point that I felt a first sea trial was in order. Although I
had sailed her many times in the California Delta and San
Francisco
Bay this would be Fantasy’s" first offshore cruise.

I had sailed my previous boats (Bristol 30 & Pacific Seacraft 31)
many times out the Golden Gate to Half Moon Bay, Santa Cruz,
Montery, Drakes Bay and the Farralon Islands. And now,I was
anxious
to see how well Fantasy would do in the waters off the California
coast.

My friend Bob and I left Glen Cove Marina on the Carquinez
Straights
last Friday morning at 1030 hrs. We had the wind on the nose (15
kts) all the way accross San Pablo Bay into San Francisco Bay. The
wind then picked up to 30 kts gusting to 35 kts as we approached
Sausalito, Ca where we would anchor for the night. The following
morning we found the winds very light as we ghosted out the Golden
Gate on a strong ebb. As usual, ten foot rollers were coming
through
the gate, though spaced enough to not be of much concern. After
sail
out approximately 3 miles we headed South with 12 kts on our
starboard beam. The seas were now also on our starboard beam at
approximately 10 ft. We raced along at 5.5 kts making Half Moon
Bay
in about 4 hours. Off Hal Moon Bay the winds picked up to 25 kts
gusting to 30 kts. with the seas now running 12 feet and fairly
close. Even with the confused sea and strong winds Fantasy
performed
better than I could have ever imagined. Very little rolling and a
very comfortable ride. Even at the start with 7 kts of wind she
foot
right along effortlessly.

After a couple of days anchored in the outer harbor, we left with
no
wind, however the seas were still running about 10 ft every 8
seconds. We were forced to motor back to the Gate where we finally
found 15 Kts of wind to enter San Francisco Bay. We were happy to
have this wind all the way back to Glen Cove.

I just wanted to share my excitement with all of you Freedom
owners.
Once you get past the exertion of raising these heavy sails on the
Cat-Ketch, then sorting out and organizing all of the lines, the
Freedom 40 FLIES! Light air or heavy air, the ride is comfortable
and safe. I love this boat!

By the way, my rig is aluminum wishbones with full batten sails on
Harken Batt-Cars. I am preparing for a cruise to Mexico next Fall
(07). Now I know Fantasy is ready.

Sorry for being so winded - pun intended!

Jay Glen
s/v Fantasy

[lance_ryley]

Posted by lance_ryley (lance_ryley@…>)

Jay,
congrats on your shakedown - the F-40 CK is one of the most forgiving
motions I’ve ever experienced on a boat. Sounds like you had a blast -
here’s to many more great experiences in her in the coming years.

Lance
Bright Star (Hull 49)

[tom1]

Posted by tom (ketch_22@…>)

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Jay Glen” <svfantasy@…>
wrote:

Hello All,

After almost two years living aboard “Fantasy”, a 1981 F-40 CK hull

60, and upgrading almost all systems aboard, I finally got things

to a point that I felt a first sea trial was in order. Although I
had sailed her many times in the California Delta and San Francisco
Bay this would be Fantasy’s" first offshore cruise.

… <snip, snip>

By the way, my rig is aluminum wishbones with full batten sails on
Harken Batt-Cars. I am preparing for a cruise to Mexico next Fall
(07). Now I know Fantasy is ready.

Jay Glen
s/v Fantasy

Hello Jay,

I’ll be looking for you in Mexico. Ketch 22 is in Monterey right now
on her way South. I’m headin to Cabo with the Ha Ha. I expect to be
there a while, so we may run into each other.

Regards,

Tom
Ketch 22

[svfantasy1]

Posted by svfantasy@… (svfantasy@…)
Tom,
I wish you a great trip South with the Ha Ha. I was trying to also go this year but other obligations will keep here another season. Hope to see you South next year.
Jay
----- Original Message -----From: tom To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.comSubject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Shakedown cruise - F-40 Cat-KetchDate: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 16:20:47 -0000

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Jay Glen” <svfantasy@…>wrote:>> Hello All,> > After almost two years living aboard “Fantasy”, a 1981 F-40 CK hull > # 60, and upgrading almost all systems aboard, I finally got things > to a point that I felt a first sea trial was in order. Although I > had sailed her many times in the California Delta and San Francisco > Bay this would be Fantasy’s" first offshore cruise… <snip, snip>> > By the way, my rig is aluminum wishbones with full batten sails on > Harken Batt-Cars. I am preparing for a cruise to Mexico next Fall > (07). Now I know Fantasy is ready.> > > Jay Glen> s/v Fantasy>Hello Jay,I’ll be looking for you in Mexico. Ketch 22 is in Monterey right nowon her way South. I’m headin to Cabo with the Ha Ha. I expect to bethere a while, so we may run into each other.Regards,TomKetch 22

[svfantasy1]

Posted by svfantasy@… (svfantasy@…)
Thanks Lance, I’m sure there will be many more great trips to follow. She is a very forgiving boat, even when the wind pipes-up you always feel safe.
Jay
----- Original Message -----From: lance_ryley To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.comSubject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Shakedown cruise - F-40 Cat-KetchDate: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 11:46:05 -0000

Jay,congrats on your shakedown - the F-40 CK is one of the most forgiving motions I’ve ever experienced on a boat. Sounds like you had a blast - here’s to many more great experiences in her in the coming years.LanceBright Star (Hull 49)

[svfantasy1]

Posted by svfantasy@… (svfantasy@…)
Michel,
Fantasy is rigged exactly like a Nonsuch. The wishbones are suspended by pendants port and starboard in a fixed position. The choker runs from forward end of the wishbone, back to a turning block on the mast, to a two part tackle arangment fixed to a turning block at the mast base and then to the cockpit sheet-stoppers. Reefing is single-line with turning blocks at the leech reef cringle. I only have the first reef rigged at present. I will send some photos to you as soon as I take a few shots. Have a great day!
Jay
----- Original Message -----From: “michel.capel” To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.comSubject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Shakedown cruise - F-40 Cat-KetchDate: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 07:18:26 -0000

Jay,Nice to hear that you like the boat so much. It would be quite a disappointment after two years of work if you didn’t.I have a few questions about your rig because i’m trying to rerig my wishbones and fully battened sails on track to a more efficient setup with as few lines as possible: 1) how is your wishbone attached to the mast; do you have pennants or just the choker/outhaul?2) how is your outhaul or choker arrangement?3) how did you lead your reefing lines? Thanks, and perhaps you have some photos?michel— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Jay Glen” <svfantasy@…> wrote:>> Hello All,> > After almost two years living aboard “Fantasy”, a 1981 F-40 CK hull > # 60, and upgrading almost all systems aboard, I finally got things > to a point that I felt a first sea trial was in order. Although I > had sailed her many times in the California Delta and San Francisco > Bay this would be Fantasy’s" first offshore cruise.> > I had sailed my previous boats (Bristol 30 & Pacific Seacraft 31) > many times out the Golden Gate to Half Moon Bay, Santa Cruz, > Montery, Drakes Bay and the Farralon Islands. And now,I was anxious > to see how well Fantasy would do in the waters off the California > coast.> > My friend Bob and I left Glen Cove Marina on the Carquinez Straights > last Friday morning at 1030 hrs. We had the wind on the nose (15 > kts) all the way accross San Pablo Bay into San Francisco Bay. The > wind then picked up to 30 kts gusting to 35 kts as we approached > Sausalito, Ca where we would anchor for the night. The following > morning we found the winds very light as we ghosted out the Golden > Gate on a strong ebb. As usual, ten foot rollers were coming through > the gate, though spaced enough to not be of much concern. After sail > out approximately 3 miles we headed South with 12 kts on our > starboard beam. The seas were now also on our starboard beam at > approximately 10 ft. We raced along at 5.5 kts making Half Moon Bay > in about 4 hours. Off Hal Moon Bay the winds picked up to 25 kts > gusting to 30 kts. with the seas now running 12 feet and fairly > close. Even with the confused sea and strong winds Fantasy performed > better than I could have ever imagined. Very little rolling and a > very comfortable ride. Even at the start with 7 kts of wind she foot > right along effortlessly.> > After a couple of days anchored in the outer harbor, we left with no > wind, however the seas were still running about 10 ft every 8 > seconds. We were forced to motor back to the Gate where we finally > found 15 Kts of wind to enter San Francisco Bay. We were happy to > have this wind all the way back to Glen Cove.> > I just wanted to share my excitement with all of you Freedom owners. > Once you get past the exertion of raising these heavy sails on the > Cat-Ketch, then sorting out and organizing all of the lines, the > Freedom 40 FLIES! Light air or heavy air, the ride is comfortable > and safe. I love this boat!> > By the way, my rig is aluminum wishbones with full batten sails on > Harken Batt-Cars. I am preparing for a cruise to Mexico next Fall > (07). Now I know Fantasy is ready.> > Sorry for being so winded - pun intended!> > Jay Glen> s/v Fantasy>

[michel.capel]

Posted by michel.capel (michel.capel@…>)

Jay,

Does your choker arrangement limit the angle to which you can wing
out the main? Or are the batcars the limit to how far the main can
go forward?

thanks,
michel

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, svfantasy@… wrote:

Michel,

Fantasy is rigged exactly like a Nonsuch. The wishbones are
suspended by
pendants port and starboard in a fixed position. The choker runs
from
forward end of the wishbone, back to a turning block on the mast,
to a
two part tackle arangment fixed to a turning block at the mast
base and
then to the cockpit sheet-stoppers. Reefing is single-line with
turning
blocks at the leech reef cringle. I only have the first reef
rigged at
present. I will send some photos to you as soon as I take a few
shots.
Have a great day!

Jay

----- Original Message -----
From: “michel.capel”
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Shakedown cruise - F-40 Cat-
Ketch
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 07:18:26 -0000

Jay,

Nice to hear that you like the boat so much. It would be quite a
disappointment after two years of work if you didn’t.

I have a few questions about your rig because i’m trying to
rerig my
wishbones and fully battened sails on track to a more efficient
setup with as few lines as possible:

1. how is your wishbone attached to the mast; do you have
   pennants
   or just the choker/outhaul?
2. how is your outhaul or choker arrangement?
3. how did you lead your reefing lines?

Thanks, and perhaps you have some photos?

michel

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Jay Glen” <svfantasy@>
wrote:

Hello All,

After almost two years living aboard “Fantasy”, a 1981 F-40 CK
hull

60, and upgrading almost all systems aboard, I finally got

things

to a point that I felt a first sea trial was in order.
Although I
had sailed her many times in the California Delta and San
Francisco
Bay this would be Fantasy’s" first offshore cruise.

I had sailed my previous boats (Bristol 30 & Pacific Seacraft

many times out the Golden Gate to Half Moon Bay, Santa Cruz,
Montery, Drakes Bay and the Farralon Islands. And now,I was
anxious
to see how well Fantasy would do in the waters off the
California
coast.

My friend Bob and I left Glen Cove Marina on the Carquinez
Straights
last Friday morning at 1030 hrs. We had the wind on the nose
(15
kts) all the way accross San Pablo Bay into San Francisco Bay.
The
wind then picked up to 30 kts gusting to 35 kts as we
approached
Sausalito, Ca where we would anchor for the night. The
following
morning we found the winds very light as we ghosted out the
Golden
Gate on a strong ebb. As usual, ten foot rollers were coming
through
the gate, though spaced enough to not be of much concern. After
sail
out approximately 3 miles we headed South with 12 kts on our
starboard beam. The seas were now also on our starboard beam at
approximately 10 ft. We raced along at 5.5 kts making Half Moon
Bay
in about 4 hours. Off Hal Moon Bay the winds picked up to 25
kts
gusting to 30 kts. with the seas now running 12 feet and fairly
close. Even with the confused sea and strong winds Fantasy
performed
better than I could have ever imagined. Very little rolling
and a
very comfortable ride. Even at the start with 7 kts of wind she
foot
right along effortlessly.

After a couple of days anchored in the outer harbor, we left
with
no
wind, however the seas were still running about 10 ft every 8
seconds. We were forced to motor back to the Gate where we
finally
found 15 Kts of wind to enter San Francisco Bay. We were happy
to
have this wind all the way back to Glen Cove.

I just wanted to share my excitement with all of you Freedom
owners.
Once you get past the exertion of raising these heavy sails on
the
Cat-Ketch, then sorting out and organizing all of the lines,
the
Freedom 40 FLIES! Light air or heavy air, the ride is
comfortable
and safe. I love this boat!

By the way, my rig is aluminum wishbones with full batten
sails on
Harken Batt-Cars. I am preparing for a cruise to Mexico next
Fall
(07). Now I know Fantasy is ready.

Sorry for being so winded - pun intended!

Jay Glen
s/v Fantasy

[svfantasy1]

Posted by svfantasy@… (svfantasy@…)
Michel,
The Batt-Cars allow the sail to pivot on the cars, therefore, you can square the wishbone. The limiting factor can be the pendants that suspend the wishbone. If they are not long enough to allow them to twist around the mast (of course the wishbone will raise slightly) I fear they can place extreme loads on the mast shell when trying to over-square the wishbone. So, you will have to experiment with your particular set-up to get the length of the pendants correct. I rarely over square the wishbone on my rig.
Jay
----- Original Message -----From: “michel.capel” To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.comSubject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Shakedown cruise - F-40 Cat-KetchDate: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 07:00:22 -0000

Jay,Does your choker arrangement limit the angle to which you can wing out the main? Or are the batcars the limit to how far the main can go forward?thanks,michel— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, svfantasy@… wrote:>> Michel,> > Fantasy is rigged exactly like a Nonsuch. The wishbones are suspended by> pendants port and starboard in a fixed position. The choker runs from> forward end of the wishbone, back to a turning block on the mast, to a> two part tackle arangment fixed to a turning block at the mast base and> then to the cockpit sheet-stoppers. Reefing is single-line with turning> blocks at the leech reef cringle. I only have the first reef rigged at> present. I will send some photos to you as soon as I take a few shots.> Have a great day!> > Jay> > ----- Original Message -----> From: “michel.capel”> To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Shakedown cruise - F-40 Cat-Ketch> Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 07:18:26 -0000> > Jay,> > Nice to hear that you like the boat so much. It would be quite a> disappointment after two years of work if you didn’t.> > I have a few questions about your rig because i’m trying to rerig my> wishbones and fully battened sails on track to a more efficient> setup with as few lines as possible:> > 1) how is your wishbone attached to the mast; do you have pennants> or just the choker/outhaul?> 2) how is your outhaul or choker arrangement?> 3) how did you lead your reefing lines?> > Thanks, and perhaps you have some photos?> > michel> > — In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Jay Glen” <svfantasy@>> wrote:> >> > Hello All,> >> > After almost two years living aboard “Fantasy”, a 1981 F-40 CK> hull> > # 60, and upgrading almost all systems aboard, I finally got> things> > to a point that I felt a first sea trial was in order. Although I> > had sailed her many times in the California Delta and San> Francisco> > Bay this would be Fantasy’s" first offshore cruise.> >> > I had sailed my previous boats (Bristol 30 & Pacific Seacraft 31)> > many times out the Golden Gate to Half Moon Bay, Santa Cruz,> > Montery, Drakes Bay and the Farralon Islands. And now,I was> anxious> > to see how well Fantasy would do in the waters off the California> > coast.> >> > My friend Bob and I left Glen Cove Marina on the Carquinez> Straights> > last Friday morning at 1030 hrs. We had the wind on the nose (15> > kts) all the way accross San Pablo Bay into San Francisco Bay. The> > wind then picked up to 30 kts gusting to 35 kts as we approached> > Sausalito, Ca where we would anchor for the night. The following> > morning we found the winds very light as we ghosted out the Golden> > Gate on a strong ebb. As usual, ten foot rollers were coming> through> > the gate, though spaced enough to not be of much concern. After> sail> > out approximately 3 miles we headed South with 12 kts on our> > starboard beam. The seas were now also on our starboard beam at> > approximately 10 ft. We raced along at 5.5 kts making Half Moon> Bay> > in about 4 hours. Off Hal Moon Bay the winds picked up to 25 kts> > gusting to 30 kts. with the seas now running 12 feet and fairly> > close. Even with the confused sea and strong winds Fantasy> performed> > better than I could have ever imagined. Very little rolling and a> > very comfortable ride. Even at the start with 7 kts of wind she> foot> > right along effortlessly.> >> > After a couple of days anchored in the outer harbor, we left with> no> > wind, however the seas were still running about 10 ft every 8> > seconds. We were forced to motor back to the Gate where we finally> > found 15 Kts of wind to enter San Francisco Bay. We were happy to> > have this wind all the way back to Glen Cove.> >> > I just wanted to share my excitement with all of you Freedom> owners.> > Once you get past the exertion of raising these heavy sails on the> > Cat-Ketch, then sorting out and organizing all of the lines, the> > Freedom 40 FLIES! Light air or heavy air, the ride is comfortable> > and safe. I love this boat!> >> > By the way, my rig is aluminum wishbones with full batten sails on> > Harken Batt-Cars. I am preparing for a cruise to Mexico next Fall> > (07). Now I know Fantasy is ready.> >> > Sorry for being so winded - pun intended!> >> > Jay Glen> > s/v Fantasy> >>

[michel.capel]

Posted by michel.capel (michel.capel@…>)

Jay, thanks.

On my F33/35, oversquaring the main in combination with a large
mizzen spinaker was my favorite trick to get the boat almost
airborne and outsail 40+ foot sloops in race outfit. This worked
best on broad reaches of 150* app. wind. I had the two ply sail on
the F33/35, and I’m curious if oversquaring works as well with track
and slides. We’ll have to see how far it goes. I have put only one
wishbone pendant eyebolt on the front of the mast 5’ above the
wishbone, and I’ll put a block on it through which the (single line)
pendant goes. I hope the twisting load will be limited that way.
Also, the wishbones can find their own position.

regards,
michel

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, svfantasy@… wrote:

Michel,

The Batt-Cars allow the sail to pivot on the cars, therefore, you
can
square the wishbone. The limiting factor can be the pendants that
suspend
the wishbone. If they are not long enough to allow them to twist
around
the mast (of course the wishbone will raise slightly) I fear they
can
place extreme loads on the mast shell when trying to over-square
the
wishbone. So, you will have to experiment with your particular set-
up to
get the length of the pendants correct. I rarely over square the
wishbone
on my rig.

Jay

----- Original Message -----
From: “michel.capel”
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Shakedown cruise - F-40 Cat-
Ketch
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 07:00:22 -0000

Jay,

Does your choker arrangement limit the angle to which you can
wing
out the main? Or are the batcars the limit to how far the main
can
go forward?

thanks,
michel

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, svfantasy@ wrote:

Michel,

Fantasy is rigged exactly like a Nonsuch. The wishbones are
suspended by
pendants port and starboard in a fixed position. The choker
runs
from
forward end of the wishbone, back to a turning block on the
mast,
to a
two part tackle arangment fixed to a turning block at the mast
base and
then to the cockpit sheet-stoppers. Reefing is single-line with
turning
blocks at the leech reef cringle. I only have the first reef
rigged at
present. I will send some photos to you as soon as I take a few
shots.
Have a great day!

Jay

----- Original Message -----
From: “michel.capel”
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Shakedown cruise - F-40 Cat-
Ketch
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 07:18:26 -0000

Jay,

Nice to hear that you like the boat so much. It would be quite
a
disappointment after two years of work if you didn’t.

I have a few questions about your rig because i’m trying to
rerig my
wishbones and fully battened sails on track to a more efficient
setup with as few lines as possible:

1. how is your wishbone attached to the mast; do you have
   pennants
   or just the choker/outhaul?
2. how is your outhaul or choker arrangement?
3. how did you lead your reefing lines?

Thanks, and perhaps you have some photos?

michel

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Jay Glen”
<svfantasy@>
wrote:

Hello All,

After almost two years living aboard “Fantasy”, a 1981 F-40
CK
hull

60, and upgrading almost all systems aboard, I finally got

things

to a point that I felt a first sea trial was in order.
Although I
had sailed her many times in the California Delta and San
Francisco
Bay this would be Fantasy’s" first offshore cruise.

I had sailed my previous boats (Bristol 30 & Pacific Seacraft

many times out the Golden Gate to Half Moon Bay, Santa Cruz,
Montery, Drakes Bay and the Farralon Islands. And now,I was
anxious
to see how well Fantasy would do in the waters off the
California
coast.

My friend Bob and I left Glen Cove Marina on the Carquinez
Straights
last Friday morning at 1030 hrs. We had the wind on the nose
(15
kts) all the way accross San Pablo Bay into San Francisco
Bay.
The
wind then picked up to 30 kts gusting to 35 kts as we
approached
Sausalito, Ca where we would anchor for the night. The
following
morning we found the winds very light as we ghosted out the
Golden
Gate on a strong ebb. As usual, ten foot rollers were coming
through
the gate, though spaced enough to not be of much concern.
After
sail
out approximately 3 miles we headed South with 12 kts on our
starboard beam. The seas were now also on our starboard beam
at
approximately 10 ft. We raced along at 5.5 kts making Half
Moon
Bay
in about 4 hours. Off Hal Moon Bay the winds picked up to 25
kts
gusting to 30 kts. with the seas now running 12 feet and
fairly
close. Even with the confused sea and strong winds Fantasy
performed
better than I could have ever imagined. Very little rolling
and a
very comfortable ride. Even at the start with 7 kts of wind
she
foot
right along effortlessly.

After a couple of days anchored in the outer harbor, we left
with
no
wind, however the seas were still running about 10 ft every 8
seconds. We were forced to motor back to the Gate where we
finally
found 15 Kts of wind to enter San Francisco Bay. We were
happy
to
have this wind all the way back to Glen Cove.

I just wanted to share my excitement with all of you Freedom
owners.
Once you get past the exertion of raising these heavy sails
on
the
Cat-Ketch, then sorting out and organizing all of the lines,
the
Freedom 40 FLIES! Light air or heavy air, the ride is
comfortable
and safe. I love this boat!

By the way, my rig is aluminum wishbones with full batten
sails on
Harken Batt-Cars. I am preparing for a cruise to Mexico next
Fall
(07). Now I know Fantasy is ready.

Sorry for being so winded - pun intended!

Jay Glen
s/v Fantasy

[andre_laviolette]

Posted by andre laviolette (andrelaviolette@…>)
Michel & Jay, I have tried oversquaring the main on my friends Nonsuch during a race and it did not seem to help, rather heading up a little was faster in relashionship to the other racers. One sail flown only. I do think that those rap-round sails that were used early on by Freedom were definitely fastest of all sails attached to a mast. To bad they were somewhat difficult or unpopular to raise , reef, and lower. I would love to see these come back with some solution to the friction upon setting and reducing sail. Any ideas ? Andre. “michel.capel” <michel.capel@…> wrote: Jay, thanks.On my F33/35, oversquaring the main in combination with a large mizzen spinaker was my favorite trick to get the boat almost airborne and outsail 40+ foot sloops in race outfit. This worked best on broad reaches of 150* app. wind. I had the two ply sail on the F33/35, and I’m curious if oversquaring works as well with track and slides. We’ll have to see how far it goes. I have put only one wishbone pendant eyebolt on the front of the mast 5’ above the wishbone, and I’ll put a block on it through which the (single line) pendant goes. I hope the twisting load will be limited that way. Also, the wishbones can find their own position.regards,michel— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, svfantasy@… wrote:>> Michel,> > The Batt-Cars allow the sail to pivot on the cars, therefore, you can> square the wishbone. The limiting factor can be the pendants that suspend> the wishbone. If they are not long enough to allow them to twist around> the mast (of course the wishbone will raise slightly) I fear they can> place extreme loads on the mast shell when trying to over-square the> wishbone. So, you will have to experiment with your particular set-up to> get the length of the pendants correct. I rarely over square the wishbone> on my rig.> > Jay> > ----- Original Message -----> From: “michel.capel”> To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Shakedown cruise - F-40 Cat-Ketch> Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 07:00:22 -0000> > Jay,> > Does your choker arrangement limit the angle to which you can wing> out the main? Or are the batcars the limit to how far the main can> go forward?> > thanks,> michel> > — In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, svfantasy@ wrote:> >> > Michel,> >> > Fantasy is rigged exactly like a Nonsuch. The wishbones are> suspended by> > pendants port and starboard in a fixed position. The choker runs> from> > forward end of the wishbone, back to a turning block on the mast,> to a> > two part tackle arangment fixed to a turning block at the mast> base and> > then to the cockpit sheet-stoppers.
Reefing is single-line with> turning> > blocks at the leech reef cringle. I only have the first reef> rigged at> > present. I will send some photos to you as soon as I take a few> shots.> > Have a great day!> >> > Jay> >> > ----- Original Message -----> > From: “michel.capel”> > To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Shakedown cruise - F-40 Cat-> Ketch> > Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 07:18:26 -0000> >> > Jay,> >> > Nice to hear that you like the boat so much. It would be quite a> > disappointment after two years of work if you didn’t.> >> > I have a few questions about your rig because i’m trying to> rerig my> > wishbones and fully battened sails on
track to a more efficient> > setup with as few lines as possible:> >> > 1) how is your wishbone attached to the mast; do you have> pennants> > or just the choker/outhaul?> > 2) how is your outhaul or choker arrangement?> > 3) how did you lead your reefing lines?> >> > Thanks, and perhaps you have some photos?> >> > michel> >> > — In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Jay Glen” <svfantasy@>> > wrote:> > >> > > Hello All,> > >> > > After almost two years living aboard “Fantasy”, a 1981 F-40 CK> > hull> > > # 60, and upgrading almost all systems aboard, I finally got> > things> > > to a point that I felt a first sea trial was in order.> Although I>

had sailed her many times in the California Delta and San> > Francisco> > > Bay this would be Fantasy’s" first offshore cruise.> > >> > > I had sailed my previous boats (Bristol 30 & Pacific Seacraft> 31)> > > many times out the Golden Gate to Half Moon Bay, Santa Cruz,> > > Montery, Drakes Bay and the Farralon Islands. And now,I was> > anxious> > > to see how well Fantasy would do in the waters off the> California> > > coast.> > >> > > My friend Bob and I left Glen Cove Marina on the Carquinez> > Straights> > > last Friday morning at 1030 hrs. We had the wind on the nose> (15> > > kts) all the way accross San Pablo Bay into San Francisco Bay.> The> > > wind then picked up to 30 kts gusting to 35 kts as we> approached> > >
Sausalito, Ca where we would anchor for the night. The> following> > > morning we found the winds very light as we ghosted out the> Golden> > > Gate on a strong ebb. As usual, ten foot rollers were coming> > through> > > the gate, though spaced enough to not be of much concern. After> > sail> > > out approximately 3 miles we headed South with 12 kts on our> > > starboard beam. The seas were now also on our starboard beam at> > > approximately 10 ft. We raced along at 5.5 kts making Half Moon> > Bay> > > in about 4 hours. Off Hal Moon Bay the winds picked up to 25> kts> > > gusting to 30 kts. with the seas now running 12 feet and fairly> > > close. Even with the confused sea and strong winds Fantasy> > performed> > > better than I could have ever imagined. Very little
rolling> and a> > > very comfortable ride. Even at the start with 7 kts of wind she> > foot> > > right along effortlessly.> > >> > > After a couple of days anchored in the outer harbor, we left> with> > no> > > wind, however the seas were still running about 10 ft every 8> > > seconds. We were forced to motor back to the Gate where we> finally> > > found 15 Kts of wind to enter San Francisco Bay. We were happy> to> > > have this wind all the way back to Glen Cove.> > >> > > I just wanted to share my excitement with all of you Freedom> > owners.> > > Once you get past the exertion of raising these heavy sails on> the> > > Cat-Ketch, then sorting out and organizing all of the lines,> the> > > Freedom 40 FLIES! Light air or
heavy air, the ride is> comfortable> > > and safe. I love this boat!> > >> > > By the way, my rig is aluminum wishbones with full batten> sails on> > > Harken Batt-Cars. I am preparing for a cruise to Mexico next> Fall> > > (07). Now I know Fantasy is ready.> > >> > > Sorry for being so winded - pun intended!> > >> > > Jay Glen> > > s/v Fantasy> > >> >>
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[Alan_Kusinitz]

Posted by Alan Kusinitz (akusinitz@…>)



On my 33 I have the converted to track
system. However this year I had new sails made with even more roach and
increased the sail area by about 100sq ft. overall. The main in particular has
increased twist. I can let the sails out a little past 90 degrees but with the
twist of the sail the angle is quite a bit more. The extra sail area really
gets me moving wing on wing even in light airs. I haven’t tried the
staysail approach but with the increased sail area in both sails I’ve had
great performance.

Alan F-33 Hull # 51 1982 SEAPR

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From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com [mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of andre laviolette
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006
8:58 AM
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [freedomyachts2003]
Re: Shakedown cruise - F-40 Cat-Ketch

Michel & Jay,

\

I have tried oversquaring the main on my friends Nonsuch during a race
and it did not seem to help, rather heading up a little was faster in
relashionship to the other racers. One sail flown only.


I do think that those rap-round sails that were used early on by
Freedom were definitely fastest of all sails attached to a mast.
To bad they were somewhat difficult or unpopular to raise , reef, and
lower.


I would love to see these come back with some solution to the friction
upon setting and reducing sail.


Any ideas ?

\

Andre.

\

“michel.capel”
<michel.capel@yahoo.com> wrote:




Jay, thanks.

On my F33/35, oversquaring the main in combination with a large
mizzen spinaker was my favorite trick to get the boat almost
airborne and outsail 40+ foot sloops in race outfit. This worked
best on broad reaches of 150* app. wind. I had the two ply sail on
the F33/35, and I’m curious if oversquaring works as well with track
and slides. We’ll have to see how far it goes. I have put only one
wishbone pendant eyebolt on the front of the mast 5’ above the
wishbone, and I’ll put a block on it through which the (single line)
pendant goes. I hope the twisting load will be limited that way.
Also, the wishbones can find their own position.

regards,
michel

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com,
svfantasy@… wrote:

Michel,

The Batt-Cars allow the sail to pivot on the cars, therefore, you
can
square the wishbone. The limiting factor can be the pendants that
suspend
the wishbone. If they are not long enough to allow them to twist
around
the mast (of course the wishbone will raise slightly) I fear they
can
place extreme loads on the mast shell when trying to over-square
the
wishbone. So, you will have to experiment with your particular set-
up to
get the length of the pendants correct. I rarely over square the
wishbone
on my rig.

Jay

----- Original Message -----
From: “michel.capel”
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Shakedown cruise - F-40 Cat-
Ketch
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 07:00:22 -0000

Jay,

Does your choker arrangement limit the angle to which you can
wing
out the main? Or are the batcars the limit to how far the main
can
go forward?

thanks,
michel

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com,
svfantasy@ wrote:

Michel,

Fantasy is rigged exactly like a Nonsuch. The wishbones are
suspended by
pendants port and starboard in a fixed position. The choker
runs
from
forward end of the wishbone, back to a turning block on the
mast,
to a
two part tackle arangment fixed to a turning block at the mast
base and
then to the cockpit sheet-stoppers. Reefing is single-line with
turning
blocks at the leech reef cringle. I only have the first reef
rigged at
present. I will send some photos to you as soon as I take a few
shots.
Have a great day!

Jay

----- Original Message -----
From: “michel.capel”
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Shakedown cruise - F-40 Cat-
Ketch
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 07:18:26 -0000

Jay,

Nice to hear that you like the boat so much. It would be quite
a
disappointment after two years of work if you didn’t.

I have a few questions about your rig because i’m trying to
rerig my
wishbones and fully battened sails on track to a more efficient
setup with as few lines as possible:

1. how is your wishbone attached to the mast; do you have
   pennants
   or just the choker/outhaul?
2. how is your outhaul or choker arrangement?
3. how did you lead your reefing lines?

Thanks, and perhaps you have some photos?

michel

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com,
“Jay Glen”
<svfantasy@>
wrote:

Hello All,

After almost two years living aboard “Fantasy”, a 1981
F-40
CK
hull

60, and upgrading almost all systems aboard, I finally got

things

to a point that I felt a first sea trial was in order.
Although I
had sailed her many times in the California Delta and San
Francisco
Bay this would be Fantasy’s" first offshore cruise.

I had sailed my previous boats (Bristol 30 & Pacific
Seacraft

many times out the Golden Gate to Half
Moon Bay,
Santa Cruz,
Montery, Drakes Bay and the Farralon Islands.
And now,I was
anxious
to see how well Fantasy would do in the waters off the
California
coast.

My friend Bob and I left Glen Cove Marina on the Carquinez
Straights
last Friday morning at 1030 hrs. We had the wind on the nose
(15
kts) all the way accross San Pablo
Bay into San Francisco
Bay.
The
wind then picked up to 30 kts gusting to 35 kts as we
approached
Sausalito,
Ca where we would anchor for the night. The
following
morning we found the winds very light as we ghosted out the
Golden
Gate on a strong ebb. As usual, ten foot rollers were coming
through
the gate, though spaced enough to not be of much concern.
After
sail
out approximately 3 miles we headed South with 12 kts on our
starboard beam. The seas were now also on our starboard beam
at
approximately 10 ft. We raced along at 5.5 kts making Half
Moon
Bay
in about 4 hours. Off Hal
Moon Bay
the winds picked up to 25
kts
gusting to 30 kts. with the seas now running 12 feet and
fairly
close. Even with the confused sea and strong winds Fantasy
performed
better than I could have ever imagined. Very little rolling
and a
very comfortable ride. Even at the start with 7 kts of wind
she
foot
right along effortlessly.

After a couple of days anchored in the outer harbor, we left
with
no
wind, however the seas were still running about 10 ft every 8
seconds. We were forced to motor back to the Gate where we
finally
found 15 Kts of wind to enter San Francisco Bay.
We were
happy
to
have this wind all the way back to Glen Cove.

I just wanted to share my excitement with all of you Freedom
owners.
Once you get past the exertion of raising these heavy sails
on
the
Cat-Ketch, then sorting out and organizing all of the lines,
the
Freedom 40 FLIES! Light air or heavy air, the ride is
comfortable
and safe. I love this boat!

By the way, my rig is aluminum wishbones with full batten
sails on
Harken Batt-Cars. I am preparing for a cruise to Mexico next
Fall
(07). Now I know Fantasy is ready.

Sorry for being so winded - pun intended!

Jay Glen
s/v Fantasy

\

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Get news delivered. Enjoy RSS feeds right on your Mail page.

\

[michel.capel]

Posted by michel.capel (michel.capel@…>)

I’ve worked with wrap-arounds for 8 years on my previous Freedom;
Reefing and dousing was okay, the only 3 drawbacks were
-the weight (1.5 times the weaight of single ply sail)
-the fact that you cannot attach anything to the mast (radar etc)
-the fact that you cannot have full battens and a nice roach.

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, andre laviolette
<andrelaviolette@…> wrote:

Michel & Jay,

I have tried oversquaring the main on my friends Nonsuch during
a race and it did not seem to help, rather heading up a little was
faster in relashionship to the other racers. One sail flown only.
I do think that those rap-round sails that were used early on by
Freedom were definitely fastest of all sails attached to a mast. To
bad they were somewhat difficult or unpopular to raise , reef, and
lower.
I would love to see these come back with some solution to the
friction upon setting and reducing sail.
Any ideas ?

Andre.

“michel.capel” <michel.capel@…> wrote:
Jay, thanks.

On my F33/35, oversquaring the main in combination with a large
mizzen spinaker was my favorite trick to get the boat almost
airborne and outsail 40+ foot sloops in race outfit. This worked
best on broad reaches of 150* app. wind. I had the two ply sail on
the F33/35, and I’m curious if oversquaring works as well with
track
and slides. We’ll have to see how far it goes. I have put only one
wishbone pendant eyebolt on the front of the mast 5’ above the
wishbone, and I’ll put a block on it through which the (single
line)
pendant goes. I hope the twisting load will be limited that way.
Also, the wishbones can find their own position.

regards,
michel

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, svfantasy@ wrote:

Michel,

The Batt-Cars allow the sail to pivot on the cars, therefore,
you
can
square the wishbone. The limiting factor can be the pendants
that
suspend
the wishbone. If they are not long enough to allow them to twist
around
the mast (of course the wishbone will raise slightly) I fear
they
can
place extreme loads on the mast shell when trying to over-square
the
wishbone. So, you will have to experiment with your particular
set-
up to
get the length of the pendants correct. I rarely over square the
wishbone
on my rig.

Jay

----- Original Message -----
From: “michel.capel”
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Shakedown cruise - F-40 Cat-
Ketch
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 07:00:22 -0000

Jay,

Does your choker arrangement limit the angle to which you can
wing
out the main? Or are the batcars the limit to how far the main
can
go forward?

thanks,
michel

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, svfantasy@ wrote:

Michel,

Fantasy is rigged exactly like a Nonsuch. The wishbones are
suspended by
pendants port and starboard in a fixed position. The choker
runs
from
forward end of the wishbone, back to a turning block on the
mast,
to a
two part tackle arangment fixed to a turning block at the mast
base and
then to the cockpit sheet-stoppers. Reefing is single-line with
turning
blocks at the leech reef cringle. I only have the first reef
rigged at
present. I will send some photos to you as soon as I take a few
shots.
Have a great day!

Jay

----- Original Message -----
From: “michel.capel”
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Shakedown cruise - F-40 Cat-
Ketch
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 07:18:26 -0000

Jay,

Nice to hear that you like the boat so much. It would be quite
a
disappointment after two years of work if you didn’t.

I have a few questions about your rig because i’m trying to
rerig my
wishbones and fully battened sails on track to a more efficient
setup with as few lines as possible:

1. how is your wishbone attached to the mast; do you have
   pennants
   or just the choker/outhaul?
2. how is your outhaul or choker arrangement?
3. how did you lead your reefing lines?

Thanks, and perhaps you have some photos?

michel

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Jay Glen”
<svfantasy@>
wrote:

Hello All,

After almost two years living aboard “Fantasy”, a 1981 F-40
CK
hull

60, and upgrading almost all systems aboard, I finally got

things

to a point that I felt a first sea trial was in order.
Although I
had sailed her many times in the California Delta and San
Francisco
Bay this would be Fantasy’s" first offshore cruise.

I had sailed my previous boats (Bristol 30 & Pacific Seacraft

many times out the Golden Gate to Half Moon Bay, Santa Cruz,
Montery, Drakes Bay and the Farralon Islands. And now,I was
anxious
to see how well Fantasy would do in the waters off the
California
coast.

My friend Bob and I left Glen Cove Marina on the Carquinez
Straights
last Friday morning at 1030 hrs. We had the wind on the nose
(15
kts) all the way accross San Pablo Bay into San Francisco
Bay.
The
wind then picked up to 30 kts gusting to 35 kts as we
approached
Sausalito, Ca where we would anchor for the night. The
following
morning we found the winds very light as we ghosted out the
Golden
Gate on a strong ebb. As usual, ten foot rollers were coming
through
the gate, though spaced enough to not be of much concern.
After
sail
out approximately 3 miles we headed South with 12 kts on our
starboard beam. The seas were now also on our starboard beam
at
approximately 10 ft. We raced along at 5.5 kts making Half
Moon
Bay
in about 4 hours. Off Hal Moon Bay the winds picked up to 25
kts
gusting to 30 kts. with the seas now running 12 feet and
fairly
close. Even with the confused sea and strong winds Fantasy
performed
better than I could have ever imagined. Very little rolling
and a
very comfortable ride. Even at the start with 7 kts of wind
she
foot
right along effortlessly.

After a couple of days anchored in the outer harbor, we left
with
no
wind, however the seas were still running about 10 ft every 8
seconds. We were forced to motor back to the Gate where we
finally
found 15 Kts of wind to enter San Francisco Bay. We were
happy
to
have this wind all the way back to Glen Cove.

I just wanted to share my excitement with all of you Freedom
owners.
Once you get past the exertion of raising these heavy sails
on
the
Cat-Ketch, then sorting out and organizing all of the lines,
the
Freedom 40 FLIES! Light air or heavy air, the ride is
comfortable
and safe. I love this boat!

By the way, my rig is aluminum wishbones with full batten
sails on
Harken Batt-Cars. I am preparing for a cruise to Mexico next
Fall
(07). Now I know Fantasy is ready.

Sorry for being so winded - pun intended!

Jay Glen
s/v Fantasy

---

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[Peter_Schaefer]

Posted by Peter Schaefer (petersch@…>)

Michel,

I have been thinking about this stuff (wrap-arounds vs. single ply) for
quite a while. The problem with the radar is not so severe, as you can
mount it on a post at the stern. The other two points you are mentioning
may be overcome by a combination of Gios solution on Samiel and a luff
pocket around the mast instaed of fixing the sail by way of a line.
Sails with luff pockets have been proven on Wharram catamarans as well
as Freedoms (see the picture in the Photos-section) for years.

Single ply sails on mast tracks impose lots of torsional forces on the
masts, even more so, if combined with conventional booms. In 1996 I met
a Freedom 38 CK with single ply sails on mast tracks in Horta /Azores,
whose main mast had been turned around by about 160 degrees with the
rags that once were the sails still flying from the mast.

The original wrap-around layout has but minimal mast torsion if any and
consequently the masts are only fixed with one screw at the base. I
wonder if all the Freedoms that have been converted have taken this
into account.

Peter


michel.capel wrote:

I’ve worked with wrap-arounds for 8 years on my previous Freedom;
Reefing and dousing was okay, the only 3 drawbacks were
-the weight (1.5 times the weaight of single ply sail)
-the fact that you cannot attach anything to the mast (radar etc)
-the fact that you cannot have full battens and a nice roach.

[andre_laviolette]

Posted by andre laviolette (andrelaviolette@…>)
Michel, How true ! My very roachy full battened main with a rigid ( Garhauer ) vang packs a surprising amount of power. Its nearly elliptical shape and all that extra sail area up high devellops a lot of power. Someone, maybe in the catamaran world as I recall, developed a wing mast with two parallel sail tracks several cm’s apart and a double luff sail going back a few feet. Don’t remember how well it worked in practice or even how it aproached the batten problem. Perhaps they were forked, i.e. split into two, one half to each side to a slide or car ? Interresting. Andre “michel.capel” <michel.capel@…> wrote: I’ve worked with wrap-arounds for 8 years on my previous Freedom; Reefing and dousing was okay, the only 3 drawbacks were -the weight (1.5 times the weaight of single ply sail) -the fact that you cannot attach anything to the mast (radar etc)-the fact that you cannot have full battens and a nice roach.— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, andre laviolette <andrelaviolette@…> wrote:>> Michel & Jay,> > I have tried oversquaring the main on my friends Nonsuch during a race and it did not seem
to help, rather heading up a little was faster in relashionship to the other racers. One sail flown only.> I do think that those rap-round sails that were used early on by Freedom were definitely fastest of all sails attached to a mast. To bad they were somewhat difficult or unpopular to raise , reef, and lower.> I would love to see these come back with some solution to the friction upon setting and reducing sail.> Any ideas ?> > Andre.> > > “michel.capel” <michel.capel@…> wrote:> Jay, thanks.> > On my F33/35, oversquaring the main in combination with a large > mizzen spinaker was my favorite trick to get the boat almost > airborne and outsail 40+ foot sloops in race outfit. This worked > best on broad reaches of 150* app. wind. I had the two ply sail on > the F33/35, and I’m curious if oversquaring works as well with track >
and slides. We’ll have to see how far it goes. I have put only one > wishbone pendant eyebolt on the front of the mast 5’ above the > wishbone, and I’ll put a block on it through which the (single line) > pendant goes. I hope the twisting load will be limited that way. > Also, the wishbones can find their own position.> > regards,> michel> > — In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, svfantasy@ wrote:> >> > Michel,> > > > The Batt-Cars allow the sail to pivot on the cars, therefore, you > can> > square the wishbone. The limiting factor can be the pendants that > suspend> > the wishbone. If they are not long enough to allow them to twist > around> > the mast (of course the wishbone will raise slightly) I fear they > can> >
place extreme loads on the mast shell when trying to over-square > the> > wishbone. So, you will have to experiment with your particular set-> up to> > get the length of the pendants correct. I rarely over square the > wishbone> > on my rig.> > > > Jay> > > > ----- Original Message -----> > From: “michel.capel”> > To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Shakedown cruise - F-40 Cat-> Ketch> > Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 07:00:22 -0000> > > > Jay,> > > > Does your choker arrangement limit the angle to which you can > wing> > out the main? Or are the batcars the limit to how far the main > can> > go forward?> > > > thanks,> > michel>

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, svfantasy@ wrote:> > >> > > Michel,> > >> > > Fantasy is rigged exactly like a Nonsuch. The wishbones are> > suspended by> > > pendants port and starboard in a fixed position. The choker > runs> > from> > > forward end of the wishbone, back to a turning block on the > mast,> > to a> > > two part tackle arangment fixed to a turning block at the mast> > base and> > > then to the cockpit sheet-stoppers. Reefing is single-line with> > turning> > > blocks at the leech reef cringle. I only have the first reef> > rigged at> > > present. I will send some photos to you as soon as I take a few> > shots.> > > Have a great day!>

Jay> > >> > > ----- Original Message -----> > > From: “michel.capel”> > > To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Shakedown cruise - F-40 Cat-> > Ketch> > > Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 07:18:26 -0000> > >> > > Jay,> > >> > > Nice to hear that you like the boat so much. It would be quite > a> > > disappointment after two years of work if you didn’t.> > >> > > I have a few questions about your rig because i’m trying to> > rerig my> > > wishbones and fully battened sails on track to a more efficient> > > setup with as few lines as possible:> > >> > > 1) how is your wishbone attached to the mast; do you
have> > pennants> > > or just the choker/outhaul?> > > 2) how is your outhaul or choker arrangement?> > > 3) how did you lead your reefing lines?> > >> > > Thanks, and perhaps you have some photos?> > >> > > michel> > >> > > — In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Jay Glen” > <svfantasy@>> > > wrote:> > > >> > > > Hello All,> > > >> > > > After almost two years living aboard “Fantasy”, a 1981 F-40 > CK> > > hull> > > > # 60, and upgrading almost all systems aboard, I finally got> > > things> > > > to a point that I felt a first sea trial was in order.> > Although I> > > > had sailed her many times in
the California Delta and San> > > Francisco> > > > Bay this would be Fantasy’s" first offshore cruise.> > > >> > > > I had sailed my previous boats (Bristol 30 & Pacific Seacraft> > 31)> > > > many times out the Golden Gate to Half Moon Bay, Santa Cruz,> > > > Montery, Drakes Bay and the Farralon Islands. And now,I was> > > anxious> > > > to see how well Fantasy would do in the waters off the> > California> > > > coast.> > > >> > > > My friend Bob and I left Glen Cove Marina on the Carquinez> > > Straights> > > > last Friday morning at 1030 hrs. We had the wind on the nose> > (15> > > > kts) all the way accross San Pablo Bay into San Francisco > Bay.> > The> > > > wind then picked up to 30 kts
gusting to 35 kts as we> > approached> > > > Sausalito, Ca where we would anchor for the night. The> > following> > > > morning we found the winds very light as we ghosted out the> > Golden> > > > Gate on a strong ebb. As usual, ten foot rollers were coming> > > through> > > > the gate, though spaced enough to not be of much concern. > After> > > sail> > > > out approximately 3 miles we headed South with 12 kts on our> > > > starboard beam. The seas were now also on our starboard beam > at> > > > approximately 10 ft. We raced along at 5.5 kts making Half > Moon> > > Bay> > > > in about 4 hours. Off Hal Moon Bay the winds picked up to 25> > kts> > > > gusting to 30 kts. with the seas now running 12 feet and > fairly>
close. Even with the confused sea and strong winds Fantasy> > > performed> > > > better than I could have ever imagined. Very little rolling> > and a> > > > very comfortable ride. Even at the start with 7 kts of wind > she> > > foot> > > > right along effortlessly.> > > >> > > > After a couple of days anchored in the outer harbor, we left> > with> > > no> > > > wind, however the seas were still running about 10 ft every 8> > > > seconds. We were forced to motor back to the Gate where we> > finally> > > > found 15 Kts of wind to enter San Francisco Bay. We were > happy> > to> > > > have this wind all the way back to Glen Cove.> > > >> > > > I just wanted to share my excitement with all of you
Freedom> > > owners.> > > > Once you get past the exertion of raising these heavy sails > on> > the> > > > Cat-Ketch, then sorting out and organizing all of the lines,> > the> > > > Freedom 40 FLIES! Light air or heavy air, the ride is> > comfortable> > > > and safe. I love this boat!> > > >> > > > By the way, my rig is aluminum wishbones with full batten> > sails on> > > > Harken Batt-Cars. I am preparing for a cruise to Mexico next> > Fall> > > > (07). Now I know Fantasy is ready.> > > >> > > > Sorry for being so winded - pun intended!> > > >> > > > Jay Glen> > > > s/v Fantasy> > > >> > >> >> > > > > > >
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[Alan_Kusinitz]

Posted by Alan Kusinitz (akusinitz@…>)



Peter,

And as you might expect the answer is no. My
F-33 was converted but still used the 1 pin/bolt at the base. This caused some
abrasion and I’ve worked out a different method now including reinforcing
the bases of the mast on the inside. I’m sure some folks don’t
realize until its too late if they don’t have their mast removed
occasionally and especially if they don’t have the masts well wedged.

I think the later freedoms had a different base arrangement.

Now I understand why they were designed
with just the one pin/bolt. I thought it was just a bad design but your comment
about the original rig really explains their rationale!

Thanks,
Alan F-33 Hull #51 SEAPR

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The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments
is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the recipient(s)
named above and may be subject to attorney client privilege if so marked. If
the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an agent
responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that you have received this document in error and that any review, dissemination,
distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have
received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail,
and delete the original message.

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From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com [mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter Schaefer
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006
2:33 PM
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [freedomyachts2003]
Shakedown cruise - F-40 Cat-Ketch

Michel,

I have been thinking about this stuff (wrap-arounds vs. single ply) for
quite a while. The problem with the radar is not so severe, as you can
mount it on a post at the stern. The other two points you are mentioning
may be overcome by a combination of Gios solution on Samiel and a luff
pocket around the mast instaed of fixing the sail by way of a line.
Sails with luff pockets have been proven on Wharram catamarans as well
as Freedoms (see the picture in the Photos-section) for years.

Single ply sails on mast tracks impose lots of torsional forces on the
masts, even more so, if combined with conventional booms. In 1996 I met
a Freedom 38 CK with single ply sails on mast tracks in Horta /Azores,
whose main mast had been turned around by about 160 degrees with the
rags that once were the sails still flying from the mast.

The original wrap-around layout has but minimal mast torsion if any and
consequently the masts are only fixed with one screw at the base. I
wonder if all the Freedoms that have been converted have taken this
into account.

Peter

michel.capel wrote:

I’ve worked with wrap-arounds for 8 years on my previous Freedom;
Reefing and dousing was okay, the only 3 drawbacks were
-the weight (1.5 times the weaight of single ply sail)
-the fact that you cannot attach anything to the mast (radar etc)
-the fact that you cannot have full battens and a nice roach.

\

[Herman_Schiller]

Posted by Herman Schiller (hschiller2@…>)

Given that the Mull designs never had wraparound sails or wishbone
booms, what explains the single bolt at the masts of these
boats? Herm SV Impulse

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Alan Kusinitz”
<akusinitz@…> wrote:

Peter,

And as you might expect the answer is no. My F-33 was converted
but still
used the 1 pin/bolt at the base. This caused some abrasion and
I’ve worked
out a different method now including reinforcing the bases of the
mast on
the inside. I’m sure some folks don’t realize until its too late
if they
don’t have their mast removed occasionally and especially if they
don’t have
the masts well wedged.

I think the later freedoms had a different base arrangement.

Now I understand why they were designed with just the one
pin/bolt. I
thought it was just a bad design but your comment about the
original rig
really explains their rationale!

Thanks,

Alan F-33 Hull #51 SEAPR

---

The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments is
intended
only for the personal and confidential use of the recipient(s)
named above
and may be subject to attorney client privilege if so marked. If
the reader
of this message is not the intended recipient or an agent
responsible for
delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified
that you
have received this document in error and that any review,
dissemination,
distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited.
If you have
received this communication in error, please notify us immediately
by
e-mail, and delete the original message.

---

---

From: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter
Schaefer
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 2:33 PM
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [freedomyachts2003] Shakedown cruise - F-40 Cat-Ketch

Michel,

I have been thinking about this stuff (wrap-arounds vs. single
ply) for
quite a while. The problem with the radar is not so severe, as you
can
mount it on a post at the stern. The other two points you are
mentioning
may be overcome by a combination of Gios solution on Samiel and a
luff
pocket around the mast instaed of fixing the sail by way of a
line.
Sails with luff pockets have been proven on Wharram catamarans as
well
as Freedoms (see the picture in the Photos-section) for years.

Single ply sails on mast tracks impose lots of torsional forces on
the
masts, even more so, if combined with conventional booms. In 1996
I met
a Freedom 38 CK with single ply sails on mast tracks in
Horta /Azores,
whose main mast had been turned around by about 160 degrees with
the
rags that once were the sails still flying from the mast.

The original wrap-around layout has but minimal mast torsion if
any and
consequently the masts are only fixed with one screw at the base.
I
wonder if all the Freedoms that have been converted have taken
this
into account.

Peter

michel.capel wrote:

I’ve worked with wrap-arounds for 8 years on my previous
Freedom;
Reefing and dousing was okay, the only 3 drawbacks were
-the weight (1.5 times the weaight of single ply sail)
-the fact that you cannot attach anything to the mast (radar etc)
-the fact that you cannot have full battens and a nice roach.

[Herman_Schiller]

Posted by Herman Schiller (hschiller2@…>)

As I recall the wingmast design on a “Little America’s Cup” design;
about 1/3 to 3/5 of the chord of the sail was rigid wing, and yes
there were battens on both of the “soft” sail panels. Kinda neat
when you can lay the boat over on her side whilst on land, and the
wind is blowing hard, but a might impractical for ocean-going
yachts. The closest anyone would want to go to this approach is the
F-25 with wingmast, where the mast was expected to be the final
reef. Remember that this wingmast was controlled with a rotation-
limiter that maintained an angular relationship to the boom, which
in turn, was controlled by traveler and mainsheet. No torque load
was ever created in this rotating mast. Herm SV Impulse

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, andre laviolette
<andrelaviolette@…> wrote:

Michel,

How true !

My very roachy full battened main with a rigid ( Garhauer )
vang packs a surprising amount of power.
Its nearly elliptical shape and all that extra sail area up
high devellops a lot of power.

Someone, maybe in the catamaran world as I recall, developed a
wing mast with two parallel sail tracks several cm’s apart and a
double luff sail going back a few feet. Don’t remember how well it
worked in practice or even how it aproached the batten problem.
Perhaps they were forked, i.e. split into two, one half to each
side to a slide or car ? Interresting.

Andre

“michel.capel” <michel.capel@…> wrote:
I’ve worked with wrap-arounds for 8 years on my previous
Freedom;
Reefing and dousing was okay, the only 3 drawbacks were
-the weight (1.5 times the weaight of single ply sail)
-the fact that you cannot attach anything to the mast (radar etc)
-the fact that you cannot have full battens and a nice roach.

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, andre laviolette
<andrelaviolette@> wrote:

Michel & Jay,

I have tried oversquaring the main on my friends Nonsuch during
a race and it did not seem to help, rather heading up a little was
faster in relashionship to the other racers. One sail flown only.
I do think that those rap-round sails that were used early on by
Freedom were definitely fastest of all sails attached to a mast.
To
bad they were somewhat difficult or unpopular to raise , reef, and
lower.
I would love to see these come back with some solution to the
friction upon setting and reducing sail.
Any ideas ?

Andre.

“michel.capel” <michel.capel@> wrote:
Jay, thanks.

On my F33/35, oversquaring the main in combination with a large
mizzen spinaker was my favorite trick to get the boat almost
airborne and outsail 40+ foot sloops in race outfit. This worked
best on broad reaches of 150* app. wind. I had the two ply sail
on
the F33/35, and I’m curious if oversquaring works as well with
track
and slides. We’ll have to see how far it goes. I have put only
one
wishbone pendant eyebolt on the front of the mast 5’ above the
wishbone, and I’ll put a block on it through which the (single
line)
pendant goes. I hope the twisting load will be limited that way.
Also, the wishbones can find their own position.

regards,
michel

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, svfantasy@ wrote:

Michel,

The Batt-Cars allow the sail to pivot on the cars, therefore,
you
can
square the wishbone. The limiting factor can be the pendants
that
suspend
the wishbone. If they are not long enough to allow them to
twist
around
the mast (of course the wishbone will raise slightly) I fear
they
can
place extreme loads on the mast shell when trying to over-
square
the
wishbone. So, you will have to experiment with your particular
set-
up to
get the length of the pendants correct. I rarely over square
the
wishbone
on my rig.

Jay

----- Original Message -----
From: “michel.capel”
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Shakedown cruise - F-40 Cat-
Ketch
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 07:00:22 -0000

Jay,

Does your choker arrangement limit the angle to which you can
wing
out the main? Or are the batcars the limit to how far the main
can
go forward?

thanks,
michel

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, svfantasy@ wrote:

Michel,

Fantasy is rigged exactly like a Nonsuch. The wishbones are
suspended by
pendants port and starboard in a fixed position. The choker
runs
from
forward end of the wishbone, back to a turning block on the
mast,
to a
two part tackle arangment fixed to a turning block at the
mast
base and
then to the cockpit sheet-stoppers. Reefing is single-line
with
turning
blocks at the leech reef cringle. I only have the first reef
rigged at
present. I will send some photos to you as soon as I take a
few
shots.
Have a great day!

Jay

----- Original Message -----
From: “michel.capel”
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Shakedown cruise - F-40 Cat-
Ketch
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 07:18:26 -0000

Jay,

Nice to hear that you like the boat so much. It would be
quite
a
disappointment after two years of work if you didn’t.

I have a few questions about your rig because i’m trying to
rerig my
wishbones and fully battened sails on track to a more
efficient
setup with as few lines as possible:

1. how is your wishbone attached to the mast; do you have
   pennants
   or just the choker/outhaul?
2. how is your outhaul or choker arrangement?
3. how did you lead your reefing lines?

Thanks, and perhaps you have some photos?

michel

— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, “Jay Glen”
<svfantasy@>
wrote:

Hello All,

After almost two years living aboard “Fantasy”, a 1981 F-
40
CK
hull

60, and upgrading almost all systems aboard, I finally

got

things

to a point that I felt a first sea trial was in order.
Although I
had sailed her many times in the California Delta and San
Francisco
Bay this would be Fantasy’s" first offshore cruise.

I had sailed my previous boats (Bristol 30 & Pacific
Seacraft

many times out the Golden Gate to Half Moon Bay, Santa
Cruz,
Montery, Drakes Bay and the Farralon Islands. And now,I was
anxious
to see how well Fantasy would do in the waters off the
California
coast.

My friend Bob and I left Glen Cove Marina on the Carquinez
Straights
last Friday morning at 1030 hrs. We had the wind on the
nose
(15
kts) all the way accross San Pablo Bay into San Francisco
Bay.
The
wind then picked up to 30 kts gusting to 35 kts as we
approached
Sausalito, Ca where we would anchor for the night. The
following
morning we found the winds very light as we ghosted out the
Golden
Gate on a strong ebb. As usual, ten foot rollers were
coming
through
the gate, though spaced enough to not be of much concern.
After
sail
out approximately 3 miles we headed South with 12 kts on
our
starboard beam. The seas were now also on our starboard
beam
at
approximately 10 ft. We raced along at 5.5 kts making Half
Moon
Bay
in about 4 hours. Off Hal Moon Bay the winds picked up to
25
kts
gusting to 30 kts. with the seas now running 12 feet and
fairly
close. Even with the confused sea and strong winds Fantasy
performed
better than I could have ever imagined. Very little rolling
and a
very comfortable ride. Even at the start with 7 kts of
wind
she
foot
right along effortlessly.

After a couple of days anchored in the outer harbor, we
left
with
no
wind, however the seas were still running about 10 ft
every 8
seconds. We were forced to motor back to the Gate where we
finally
found 15 Kts of wind to enter San Francisco Bay. We were
happy
to
have this wind all the way back to Glen Cove.

I just wanted to share my excitement with all of you
Freedom
owners.
Once you get past the exertion of raising these heavy
sails
on
the
Cat-Ketch, then sorting out and organizing all of the
lines,
the
Freedom 40 FLIES! Light air or heavy air, the ride is
comfortable
and safe. I love this boat!

By the way, my rig is aluminum wishbones with full batten
sails on
Harken Batt-Cars. I am preparing for a cruise to Mexico
next
Fall
(07). Now I know Fantasy is ready.

Sorry for being so winded - pun intended!

Jay Glen
s/v Fantasy

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[Dave_Benjamin]

Posted by Dave_Benjamin (dave_benjamin@…>)

The other factor in deciding between wrap around versus single ply is
cost. Wrap around sails are far more expensive. Both systems have
their merits however over the long term single ply might be less
expensive.



— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, Peter Schaefer
<petersch@…> wrote:

Michel,

I have been thinking about this stuff (wrap-arounds vs. single ply)
for
quite a while. The problem with the radar is not so severe, as you
can
mount it on a post at the stern. The other two points you are
mentioning
may be overcome by a combination of Gios solution on Samiel and a
luff
pocket around the mast instaed of fixing the sail by way of a line.
Sails with luff pockets have been proven on Wharram catamarans as
well
as Freedoms (see the picture in the Photos-section) for years.

Single ply sails on mast tracks impose lots of torsional forces on
the
masts, even more so, if combined with conventional booms. In 1996 I
met
a Freedom 38 CK with single ply sails on mast tracks in
Horta /Azores,
whose main mast had been turned around by about 160 degrees with
the
rags that once were the sails still flying from the mast.

The original wrap-around layout has but minimal mast torsion if any
and
consequently the masts are only fixed with one screw at the base. I
wonder if all the Freedoms that have been converted have taken
this
into account.

Peter

michel.capel wrote:

I’ve worked with wrap-arounds for 8 years on my previous Freedom;
Reefing and dousing was okay, the only 3 drawbacks were
-the weight (1.5 times the weaight of single ply sail)
-the fact that you cannot attach anything to the mast (radar etc)
-the fact that you cannot have full battens and a nice roach.

[jerry_weinraub1]

Posted by jerry weinraub (zayde@…>)

With wraparound sails you cannot mount anything on the mast

----- Original Message -----
From: Dave_Benjamin
To: freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 8:00 PM
Subject: [freedomyachts2003] Re: Shakedown cruise - F-40 Cat-Ketch


The other factor in deciding between wrap around versus single ply is cost. Wrap around sails are far more expensive. Both systems have their merits however over the long term single ply might be less expensive.— In freedomyachts2003@yahoogroups.com, Peter Schaefer <petersch@…> wrote:>> Michel,> > I have been thinking about this stuff (wrap-arounds vs. single ply) for > quite a while. The problem with the radar is not so severe, as you can > mount it on a post at the stern. The other two points you are mentioning > may be overcome by a combination of Gios solution on Samiel and a luff > pocket around the mast instaed of fixing the sail by way of a line. > Sails with luff pockets have been proven on Wharram catamarans as well > as Freedoms (see the picture in the Photos-section) for years.> > Single ply sails on mast tracks impose lots of torsional forces on the > masts, even more so, if combined with conventional booms. In 1996 I met > a Freedom 38 CK with single ply sails on mast tracks in Horta /Azores, > whose main mast had been turned around by about 160 degrees with the > rags that once were the sails still flying from the mast.> > The original wrap-around layout has but minimal mast torsion if any and > consequently the masts are only fixed with one screw at the base. I > wonder if all the Freedoms that have been converted have taken this > into account.> > Peter> > > michel.capel wrote:> > I’ve worked with wrap-arounds for 8 years on my previous Freedom; > > Reefing and dousing was okay, the only 3 drawbacks were > > -the weight (1.5 times the weaight of single ply sail) > > -the fact that you cannot attach anything to the mast (radar etc)> > -the fact that you cannot have full battens and a nice roach.>